Honestly? I think Thornmail is fine.

Lohenngramm·7/23/2016, 9:07:11 AM·6 votes·645 views

So I've seen a bunch of threads ranting about item 3075 and how useless it is and I don't really get it. Thornmail is a very specialized item meant to counter heavy auto-attack focused comps, like a Rengar jungle, Yasuo mid and Lucian bot. In those situations you would be stacking large amounts of armour, including item 3047 , item 3068 and item 3143 , which would both further reduce the enemy's damage but also increase the damage Thornail deals to them.

Some math to illustrate: Say a Lucian with 100 AD attacks me. If I only have Thornmail, then it will reflect 40 damage (15 + 25) back to Lucian where original Thornmail would only reflect 30 damage. Combine it with Ninja Tabi and now I'm reflecting 47.5 damage (15 + 32.5) and have 12% DR against auto attacks. As the value scales with both enemy damage and armour, the value only increases as the game goes on and since it's calculated BEFORE armour pen, it won't be reduced by the Last Whisper line. Throw an summoner 14 on the late-game enemy adc on top of this and they'll kill themselves trying to auto-attack you.

Basically, while the changes to Thornmail will always make it most useful on champions that can naturally buff their own armour, they also made it much better at it's highly-specialized purpose.

9 Comments

Evewynn7/23/2016, 10:18:58 AM2 votes

That's a really skewed example. Later in the game, where you would normally get this item (especially if you're not a tank), ADCs easily reach 1000 damage with critical strikes.

150+25 < 300. You would need 450 armor to break even with old Thornmail.

Thornmail was suppose to help against heavy AD threat, but gets worse and worse as the game progresses relative to old thornmail. the only person that likes the thornmail change is rammus.

MLDzXnRRR7/23/2016, 10:21:41 AM2 votes

item 3139 Thornmail can be countered. If the ADC has Lord Dominik + Mercurial, your Thonrmail is kind of useless. Thornmail can counter only right click champions that have no way to ignore reisistances and with no way to deal decent damage lategame with their abilities- Trynda, Tristana. And even they can deal with tanks with the right builds - bork, lord dominik, mercurial, IE, PD, boots. Champions with true dmg on hit can afford to skip armor pen - Vayne, Yi, Fiora and still not die to the tanks, while killing them.

JayHog19927/23/2016, 9:14:22 AM1 votes

Honestly, it's more situational. Only occasion I'd buy is when enemy is full AD, even if half the champions are not auto attack reliable.

legionnaire997/23/2016, 9:37:28 AM1 votes

it's in a strong spot right now with adc getting better

Spoofghoul7/23/2016, 12:06:34 PM1 votes

item 3071 being present nearly every gaem further reduces thornmails effectiveness

As does magic resist like item 3111 item 3139 item 3156 item 3026

all those items can be built on adc's

then there is the whole pile of armorpen making the stacking of armor truly stupid to do

armor already loses value once you get more then 100 but its still worht to grab untill about 200-250 because some of it will be penetrated and thus this allows you to stay at a somewhat decent spot in terms of how much damage you can reduce

any further armor is generally worhtless and even more so because of armorpen

before you could build thornmail + hp armor item of choice + ninja tabi and be effective

Now you need like 2-3 more armor items for the damage to break even which is only really a viable thing to do if they have a full ad comp

And even then its questionable because at some point the value of this armor is so low your better off building a spiritvisage for the regen or warmogs for the hp

And the remainder of your armor is gutted by all the penetration that gets build which already leaves armor items at half gold efficiency simply because someone bought a lastwhisper

no armor stacking is bad and thus thornmail is bad on top of it having more counters then ever like warlords bloodlust and other additional lifesteal on items More magic resist and more armor shredding

its a worthless piece of junk and a noobtrap and you should honestly report players who buy it for intentional trolling & feeding

TheOvermind7/23/2016, 1:44:30 PM1 votes

Since you mentioned ma boy Lucian, and his BLACK (yes im racist) cleaver , let me tell you how weak thornmail is vs him. Lucian first off isn't as reliant on basic attacks as let's say a jinx or a sivir is. But since cleaver reduces armor and thormails effectiveness is based in your armor amounts, you can see how shit thornmail is