Can you make Janna's Shield give Adaptive Power instead of just AD?

Bread Pit·Oct 20, 2019·64 votes·16,348 views

If you compare Janna to other Enchanters like Soraka, it's somewhat harder to play around teammates other than your ADC because the AD bonus is sometimes straight up useless on a lot of those champs. It's not Lulu levels of bad ( her w makes it even worse for her ) but it can easily be remedied by just changing the AD bonus to an adapitve bonus so if the target is building AP they are going to get AP aswell.

I recognize that this would be a straight up buff especially when Janna decides to shield herself, but if it somehow pushes her into OP territorry I'd be fine with some power being taken away elsewhere because this change would just make her feel so much better to play imo.

57 Comments

Krys StarOct 20, 201917 votes

They could always make it so the adaptive bonus doesn't apply to Janna if the shield is cast on herself. This is a neat idea though!

Z3SIeeperOct 20, 20193 votes

I don't think it'd be too crazy either way. In terms of damage either stat will do more or less the same for her. I don't think anyone would be worried about solo lane Janna becoming a thing either if this was the case.

At most I could see the self-shield being decent for increasing ult healing, but that's about it.

I think Janna would even prefer to keep the AD. At max rank based on other adaptive stats it should be 66.4 (+16.6% AP) AP.

70 AP for Janna is:

Q: 45 damage (full charge) W: 35 damage + 1% MS R: 105 total healing

Yeah it's decent but I think she'd rather just have +40 AD on her basic attacks that could also be being enhanced by Ardent's AS bonus.

Veloz DestelloOct 20, 201913 votes

You are missing one point: She doesn't need any buff

Bread PitOct 20, 201910 votes

Like I said in the post, I'd be fine if she gets nerfed elsewhere. But implementing this change would just remove the feeling that you're bound to your adc that you get in some games.

Veloz DestelloOct 20, 20193 votes

And then. after the obvious nerf, you would complain because Riot balance champs thinking about mages and not adcs

If she needs something, its a nerf. The 52 % wr with 5 % pr says it all

Daddy AntsOct 20, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Veloz Destello,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-20T12:57:34.100+0000)

And then. after the obvious nerf, you would complain because Riot balance champs thinking about mages and not adcs

If she needs something, its a nerf. The 52 % wr with 5 % pr says it all

She doesn't need a nerf, nor does she need a buff.

52% with 5% Play rate is fine.

Something that does need a nerf is Ashe

54.1% win rate with 19.1% pick rate.

Starcraft243verOct 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bread Pit,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-20T01:08:37.895+0000)

Like I said in the post, I'd be fine if she gets nerfed elsewhere. But implementing this change would just remove the feeling that you're bound to your adc that you get in some games.

There are other AD users in your team most of the time, so, no you're not bound to your adc

LeadbooOct 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Veloz Destello,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-20T00:44:54.285+0000)

You are missing one point: She doesn't need any buff

It's not really a buff, It's still going to be the same amount of added damage, it will just allow her to work better with AP carries.

Veloz DestelloOct 21, 20191 votes

So for you, allowing her to make stronger an entire different class is not a buff?

preternaturalOct 20, 20196 votes

no thanks we are not buffing janna are you insane???? oh boohoo it only gives AD bonuses, give a toot about that even mages auto attack eventually.

xDogMeatxOct 20, 20195 votes

that actually sounds fair i mean a shield that can scale differently based on AD or AP preference. AD scales lower ofc.

Nanny God RitaOct 20, 20195 votes

Janna W is a menace in lane already does tons of dmg giving her and adaptive buff e means she will just be shielding herself and dealing more dmg with her w causeing her not to be a support and ending up being a solo mid laner

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20193 votes

If she's shielding herself, she's not shielding her ally, which makes it very easy to take them down. Janna is squishy like a butter cake anyway and if her ADC falls, she's not far away from her own demise.

No, she's not going to instantly become a problem because you have poke mages like Brand, Vel'Koz, Zilean and Morgana that are her natural counters due to them being mages that can deal more damage than her. And if every time Janna wants to poke with her W and more damage, she has to also E herself too, which is more mana intensive to be able to sustain in lane.

Her shield strength and stat bonus is higher only if she levels it up and if she wants to poke with E, it has to be leveled first, her shield second. Which means that even in such cases where she wants to poke more, she has to make a more conscious choice about what and how to level her abilities. Her Tornado then has a big CD and low damage, which puts more pressure on her to hit it correctly in order to peel off people from the back of her Marksman.

Given these constraints and clear paths for more poke but less peel, Janna does seem to be in a good position to get this buff as there are clear tradeoffs to her kit, depending on how aggressive she wants to play. She's not able to supplement the poke damage of a mage anyway.

xelakerOct 21, 20191 votes

Janna is already a pretty good poker in lane, an adaptive shield for her isn't gonna insta kill her ally...

GreenKnightOct 20, 20195 votes

Holy shit, people hate Janna that much?

AmWhaleIRLOct 22, 20191 votes

I think it's just the Ardent Season Vietnam Flashbacks that make people hate her. That season tainted Shield Enchanters in the eyes of a lot of people. Now any buff makes people panic and think back to Ardent Season/Season 7.

RagnaveilOct 20, 20194 votes

Heres the problem: You do that, whats gonna stop certain mages from exploiting it with Deathcap. Adaptive heavy favors AP in every rune that gifts it, but AD is favored in the damaging keystones. If its the same amount as the AD shield, then thats fine.

ßlameMyADCOct 20, 20191 votes

Yuumi x Veigar?

W - You and Me! Passive: While Attached, Yuumi and her ally gain a percent of each other’s AD or AP converted to Adaptive Force.

ßlameMyADCOct 20, 20191 votes

Yuumi x anyone?

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20191 votes

Not like Zed and Jhin don't exploit the AD bonus from Janna's shield already. They scale off their % total AD (Zed from his W, Jhin from his passive). So they get a lot more AD than Janna initially provides.

Fisher No ChainsOct 20, 20191 votes

It’s been months since Zed lost his % scaling, both from ult (the steal mechanic) and W.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Heres the problem: You do that, whats gonna stop certain mages from exploiting it with Deathcap. Adaptive heavy favors AP in every rune that gifts it, but AD is favored in the damaging keystones. If its the same amount as the AD shield, then thats fine.

Im less worried about mages bot, and more worried about the indirect buff to Ms. Do-It-All Kaisa

Anime FizzOct 20, 20194 votes

No.

janna doesnt need buffs and mages laning with janna also dont need buffs.

NO.

La BelloOct 20, 20193 votes

dont you think this kinda treads too far on Yuumi's point? Yuumi Adaptive power, shields and healing? disengage and poke? Instead of going in that direction I would rather want more unique functions.

god this role needs a rework already. enchanter supports are just so linearly designed atm. nothing more than pocket heals and sword dance for a carry. so lame and uninspired.

goodiesohhiOct 21, 20193 votes

No. God. Pls no. AHHHHH

NaonOct 20, 20192 votes

This would actually balance out her early / mid game a bit more. Her payoff would be much better in late game and rewarding.

LanceTheMightyOct 20, 20192 votes

Janna is already pretty strong. She has a high winrate and does what she does well. The only reason she isnt complained about is because shes an enchanter support.

BârdOct 20, 20192 votes

Alright boys, time for Janna to become an unstoppable beast in One For All.

Two Janna's E'ing each other is an infinite feedback loop that just gives them potentially infinite AP if they aren't stopped.

Sounds hilarious, lets do it.

Vlada CutOct 20, 20192 votes

Ahem.

Yuumi

Adaptive force conversion.

ADAPTIVE FORCE CONVERSION.

preternaturalOct 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-10-20T10:39:45.499+0000)

Ahem.

Adaptive force conversion.

ADAPTIVE FORCE CONVERSION.

because yuumi doesn't exist when attached to someone, janna is a whole other target.

Vlada CutOct 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

because yuumi doesn't exist when attached to someone, janna is a whole other target.

So that means Janna has to be useless at something too, nice.

preternaturalOct 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2019-10-20T13:44:55.117+0000)

So that means Janna has to be useless at something too, nice.

how is the highest win rate support across all elo's bar iron useless? like lol do you even know what janna scales on? it's not AP

Vlada CutOct 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

how is the highest win rate support across all elo's bar iron useless? like lol do you even know what janna scales on? it's not AP

Someone is still living in season 8.

What is wrong with testing, JUST TESTING the changes on PBE and see how it works.

Remember the Fiora Q and E buffs that made her hit towers and crit them too? It was toxic af but it still didn't change the fact her winrate was the same cause of how useless she is in teamfights.

preternaturalOct 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=00110000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-20T19:27:24.506+0000)

Someone is still living in season 8.

What is wrong with testing, JUST TESTING the changes on PBE and see how it works.

Remember the Fiora Q and E buffs that made her hit towers and crit them too? It was toxic af but it still didn't change the fact her winrate was the same cause of how useless she is in teamfights.

fiora's rework has failed already and people are spending too much money on the thing for riot to admit it, so they try to force the kit into viability while making it aids to play against. you are supposed to split push with her, that's how you win, problem before that turret buff was that she didn't do that before.

https://u.gg/lol/champions/janna/build?rank=challenger janna btw, dare you to go through the ranks individually. double dare if you go through the recent patches. https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=support she's top 3 support for the entire season, that's best of class while 2 others in a triumvirate constantly get rotated in and out for people to bitch about.

Vlada CutOct 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

fiora's rework has failed already and people are spending too much money on the thing for riot to admit it, so they try to force the kit into viability while making it aids to play against. you are supposed to split push with her, that's how you win, problem before that turret buff was that she didn't do that before.

https://u.gg/lol/champions/janna/build?rank=challenger janna btw, dare you to go through the ranks individually. double dare if you go through the recent patches. https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=support she's top 3 support for the entire season, that's best of class while 2 others in a triumvirate constantly get rotated in and out for people to bitch about.

People judging champions by winrates is a joke. More or so if they don't consider the playrate.

Janna isn't even played often in games and you expect her low playerbase NOT to have high winreate? Lmao what a joke.

preternaturalOct 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fo16tfmz,comment-id=0011000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-20T20:47:56.364+0000)

People judging champions by winrates is a joke. More or so if they don't consider the playrate.

Janna isn't even played often in games and you expect her low playerbase NOT to have high winreate? Lmao what a joke.

i can't judge a champion on it's popularity. people don't like playing janna because they don't "feel" impactful. that doesn't detract from her remaining the most impactful support throughout the entire season. again. she does this every season and you folks that love to "but it's not ardent meta" are uninformed as to the state of play when it comes to janna.

Total ViolationOct 20, 20192 votes

I can already tell you what will happen if your suggestion goes trough.

Janna + Mage become a strong META duo in the bot lane. Mage gets nerfed, damaging their solo lane capabilities. Janna gets nerfed 2 patches later.

ArtumisPrimeOct 20, 20192 votes

Pretty sure she'd just go mid/top, and use her shield on herself to waveclear/poke.

Sir SaltarinOct 20, 20192 votes

Why not make Galio magic shield be adaptative shield, it's useless against ad champs so unfair /s

And it's fine, it's part of his kit an his identity.

Just as Janna having synergy with ad champs and not ap.

Leave her alone, she's fine the way she is.

MrHeadsetOct 20, 20192 votes

Although it may seem a fair change even with a nerf elsewhere, the majority of the community seem to hate this idea and unless the entire community gets outraged (like the yasuo and lee sin reverted buffs: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fQLAqet4-yasuo-and-lee-buffs-cancelled) riot is only going to change based on pro play.

NhikaOct 20, 20192 votes

Wrong direction for Janna.

Just make her ULT give more utility besides healing.. Q tornado not need a windup for more aggro plays + carrying boosted ADC's.

If we want to keep her boosted and enchanting; I think looking at Nami is a support is a good reference. She can speed heal and enhance all sorts of damage (w slows, passive speeds with room for aggressive plays on Q bubble threat)

ArtumisPrimeOct 21, 20191 votes

Just make her ULT give more utility besides healing..

You mean besides the insanely powerful disengaging knockback it provides? No.

hiyaresOct 20, 20192 votes

honestly i like the idea but then there are a lot of mages that tend to have strong early games because of how ap is in the game with their ratios so if they also had a support that could buff that it would be insane imo. janna has her identity as a massive shield with the ability to disengage and protect her adc and or team as a whole. she already fits her niche so there is no need to give her more added damage to her kit that would benefit a handful of champs that already excel at what they do as well. it would be better to just tweak how some of her skills work or change her ult from channeled to just a heal over time since her aoe cc is instant anyways.

Kiwi LemonadeOct 20, 20191 votes

Agree. It also just feels right as most increases to stats in today's day and age have been converted to adaptive force. (All runes, Yuumi's buff, etc). It'll change nothing in lane (they would continue to get some amount of AD), but would let her better support/enchanter for a mage ADC too.

Daddy AntsOct 20, 20191 votes

No.

Yuumi is better attached to AP champs.

Janna shield is better on AD.

QuZeed YTOct 20, 20191 votes

That's literally a buff to Kai'Sa

ﬂooOct 20, 20191 votes

I don't think this is a good change. Yes it seems very obvious how it should be adaptive to open up variety, but this is also a bad thing. ADCs already have problems to deal with mages in botlane and (most of them) are exclusively played in this lane. If you'd give Syndra the opportunity to 100-0 someone with her combo even earlier, just because Janna pressed E, something that you have no control over, I don't see it as a good idea. I guess it's different opinions, but mages are already a problem in botlane. You shouldn't emphasize it even more.

UrbosaOct 20, 20191 votes

This is a great idea!!! If it does make her too OP just nerf the damage on her w, so it feels more like she's a "support-y" character by basically taking the w damage and being able to give it to someone else lul

Josh SandOct 20, 20191 votes

So we all know that Janna is ideal when paired with an ADC, with her main weakness being against longer ranged damage and poke champs. Typically ADC's aren't so great against poke either, on account of their low health and somewhat limited range. Granted, poke is really not in meta right now, but given Janna's plethora of disengage applications, she's really only supposed to thrive against champs that have shorter range than her.

Velkoz Xerath Ziggs

^^^ Janna should not have a good time vs these champs

Giving Janna adaptive scaling on her shield and allowing her to pair with long range AP champions might diminish her built in weakness vs poke champions.

Plus looking at a champ like Yuumi, who's adaptive buffs makes some champs straight up unkillable in the late game, I really don't think Janna needs a boost in her late game power.

I love Janna, but I'd be worried that giving her adaptive power on her shield, would put her kit in danger of almost being "solved" if that makes sense.

I think its more important for the enchanters to be specialized in the types of comps and pairings they can be used with. If they straight up plug into any composition you can think of, you end up with kits that cant be balanced like Karma's.