can we have more items like sunfire cape, except the damage scales off max health? (for pure tanks)

DoFr·Jan 26, 2015·3 votes·1,464 views

i often find myself at a great disadvantage for the lack of items such as sunfirecape and thornmail, which both btw i asbolutely love.

however, i can't find a proper item that does the same thing for pure tanks against Caster AD such as riven, jayce, gnar, Darius (not sure about renekton) and kha'zix.

but the main point stands, the reason i want it to scale off max health so it can be an item Exclusively for #TANKS! as a pure tank i don't build any damage, but i still need things like Gromp's Poison armor! which is EPIC! sunfirecape (it's Scaling is just garbage..) so yea, how about a pure tank item that deals percentage of the damage dealth back to them? but this time for AD casters instead? something that only pure tanks can only benfit from

on a side note, still wanting that 25% bonus health back...

15 Comments

BroreliaJan 26, 20152 votes

Or can we have tank items that actaully make a tank able to tank.

You know where the tank doesn't get killed in a 1v1 vs zed in under 3 seconds.

XtremeyJan 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Or can we have tank items that actaully make a tank able to tank.

You know where the tank doesn't get killed in a 1v1 vs zed in under 3 seconds.

so tired of people thinking tank = duelist. assassins are meant to duel other champions, tanks are chosen to lock down priority targets and peel for squishies.

PhriteJan 26, 20151 votes

I agree with you completely. I don't think it's about the tank winning a 1v1 so much as being able to survive it. The tank shouldn't kill Zed in the above example but Zed shouldn't be able to wipe the tank off the map alone unless due to poor play on the part of the tank.

This doesn't mean tanks should be entirely unkillable but it should be a difficult enough task that one person should have to put some thought into whether it's even worth their bother to 1v1 the tank simply due to the effort involved to take them down. The thought process shouldn't involve whether the tank can kill the duelist or not but whether the tank is a target worth bothering with when their are much easier opportunities of which they could take advantage.

BroreliaJan 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

so tired of people thinking tank = duelist. assassins are meant to duel other champions, tanks are chosen to lock down priority targets and peel for squishies.

I am not saying the assassin can't win but It is a problem when tanks can't even survive assassin burst.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I am not saying the assassin can't win but It is a problem when tanks can't even survive assassin burst.

That's because Last Whisper and Void Staff are silly concepts. Defense is too strong when they don't have the right item, but it's worthless once they get it. Riot needs to remove penetration then weaken defense by 15~20ish% to make up for it.

Not to mention that everyone and their mother buys BotRK, pretty much negating that lovely 3000+ HP you have.

DoFrJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or can we have tank items that actaully make a tank able to tank.

You know where the tank doesn't get killed in a 1v1 vs zed in under 3 seconds.

that actually called for a grievous wounds kind of Tank item, it's funny that people should "AVOID" 1v1'ing Tanks but instead they keep getting shredded due to %armor pent and lifesteal and AD casting

TehNACHOJan 27, 20152 votes

Why would you avoid 1v1ing a tank?

Tanks are never optimized for dueling, otherwise they aren't tanks, they're Fighters.

DoFrJan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why would you avoid 1v1ing a tank?

Tanks are never optimized for dueling, otherwise they aren't tanks, they're Fighters.

because you have ADC and APC to focus? ...

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why would you avoid 1v1ing a tank?

Tanks are never optimized for dueling, otherwise they aren't tanks, they're Fighters.

Assassins are actually really good against Tanks since they have the mobility to get past the Tank's CC.

And when it comes to a 1v1 single target damage > Aoe damage.

[Think Nocturne vs Sejuani]

TehNACHOJan 27, 20151 votes

Exactly. Tanks aren't optimized for 1v1s, so there's no point in avoiding a 1v1 with them.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. Tanks aren't optimized for 1v1s, so there's no point in avoiding a 1v1 with them.

Not to mention people tend to buy exactly 0 AP on them when saying "Omg, Amumu/Rammus/Zac does no damage". That's like building 0 AD on Renekton or Udyr and saying that he (the champion himself) deals too little damage.

SmokingPuffinJan 27, 20151 votes

Scaling offense based on defensive stats is risky. We know that the reverse (Atma's Impaler) was a serious game health problem.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Scaling offense based on defensive stats is risky. We know that the reverse (Atma's Impaler) was a serious game health problem.

Correction. Scaling offence based on defense too efficiently is a game health problem.

Let's use Rammus's Defensive Curl as an example.

Let's say it did 120 (+10% of total armor) and (+30% of AP).

This is balanced because while armor increases the damage, raw AP increases it much farther, but in exchange for the lower damage scaling the armor helps increase his survivability.

Now, if it did 120 (+25% of total armor) and (+25% of AP), that would be broken. There would be almost no reason to build armor over AP.

SmokingPuffinJan 27, 20151 votes

Correction. Scaling offence based on defense too efficiently is a game health problem.

I disagree. "Too efficiently" is a statement about tuning. Tuning is orthogonal to game health.

The problem with scaling offense based on defense is that it pushes metagolems -- champions that are good at both offense and defense. The game health problem here isn't that such champions are OP, which is a question of how they are tuned. It's that metagolems have poor counterplay, which leads them to having binary gameplay.

There is no set of numbers for Atma's Impaler that makes it a healthy item. It can suck with low numbers, or it can rock with high numbers. What it can't do is create interesting gameplay.

Now, if it did 120 (+25% of total armor) and (+25% of AP), that would be broken. There would be almost no reason to build armor over AP.

Doesn't sound broken. One could easily design Rammus to have no interest in ever buying AP and still have a healthy champion. You could even design him to have no AP ratios at all, if you wished.