Is the Malzahar Nerf actually that bad?

TheHappyReaperz·Feb 8, 2017·3 votes·2,319 views

I keep seeing all the posts about how Malzahar was nerfed, and now he is completely nonviable Mid now. Why?I'm no Malzahar main, I've only played him a few times, but this nerf doesn't seem that impactful. For the people that don't know, the nerfs are this: W - Void Swarm VOIDLING SPAWN TIME 0.35 seconds after cast (matching the animation) NEW: COOLDOWN BETWEEN CASTS 1 second NEW: WAIT FOR ME Past 600 distance, Voidlings move 10% more slowly for every 100 additional distance farther they are from Malzahar

From the various Malz guides I've seen, you max either Q or E. W is the last thing you max, putting a single point in at lvl 3. For the most part you harass with E and Q, only using your void pups when your going all in. Late game, your mainly useful for your AOE Silence, Ult Lockdown, and damage from your E and W. How is any of this effected by the changes, in a way that makes Malzahar trash?

17 Comments

TheWoollyMammothFeb 9, 20174 votes

Frankly, someone brought it up. I'm one of the old malzahar mains. One of the more vocal ones during the rework. I have been staying fairly silent for a months now, giving riot a chance to balance him and make him Malzahar again. In all those months, all they have done is nerf him more, and prove that they are unable to balance him in his reworked state.

The nerfs riot now could be worse. But one paper cut is nothing. 500 paper cuts will bleed a man to death. But what riot is doing by refusing to address us is worse. They gave us 300 paper cuts, and are now dipping us in a saltwater bath. This is just us not holding our breath and wincing. This is us screaming out in pain.

TheHappyReaperzFeb 9, 20171 votes

I feel like you may be slightly overreacting.

TheWoollyMammothFeb 9, 20172 votes

I don't ~~believe~~ feel like you understand just what they have done to the champ I've mained since i was level 10....4 years ago....

TheHappyReaperzFeb 9, 20171 votes

Probably not. However, from my perspective, the overall changes to Malzahar don't seem that bad. They most certainly don't seem like the kind of thing that relates to bleeding a champion to death.

TheWoollyMammothFeb 9, 20171 votes

How to help explain... lemme give this a shot. Caution, wall of text*

Malzahar before the rework, though not necessarily the nicest to play against for everyone (yas mains hated me the most). Was living fairly balanced for years. There was easier metas. there was harder metas. (I actually had to most trouble in the cc filled times of the tank meta. Cause everyone everywhere could cancel my ult) I found play styles and builds to make him work to some reasonable level through everything. Partially due to excessive theorycrafting and willingness to bring stupid shit into live games.

I went years of any high elo player telling me that malz is trash after silver 4 because people learn to peel and position. I told them that I would figure it out, and make him work. It wasn't easy, especially with the overabundance of lux's, brands, annies and leona's, lets not even mention vayne's soul eating delayed knockback. But I figured it out, and made him work.

Then the reworks started coming out, I saw them hit kassadin, I saw them hit morde, skarner, and countless other champs with endless nerfs. (remember that old meme with morello's controls of the nerf hammer? little sticky note on the kassadin stick stuck in nerf saying do not touch? someone find that for me?) I worried about what they would eventually do to malz when he landed on the chopping block.

The rework was announced and I started boards topics about it. Trying to help steer it in a direction that would save me the same fate as MaliciousMetal, and when Rep started to respond, I was hopeful that malz would remain largely unchanged except maybe some decent number crunching.

I was a fool.

It took me 2 plays to tell on the pbe the rework was missing something and broken, but Rep had kept alot of his skills as was asked, and had replied constantly, so I told myself I would wait it out. I had mastered every other possible malz build and play style to date, what could they do to him that I wouldnt be able to handle? The rework was released, and low and behold he was broken, but w.e he has alot of control levers right now, so they should be able to handle him, or so I thought.

I welcomed the first set of nerfs. The secound set of nerfs left a familiar taste in my mouth. Then it went full olaf. Any time malz was viable they started nerfing him, and fairly quickly, malz lost what was left of his old feel, his skills were all there, but the essence of malz was gone, and I could no longer make him work.

4 years of playing the same champ over and over again, and I couldnt do it anymore, but others could. So I quit playing lol. The one champion I enjoyed playing more then any other no longer existed, so why bother.

Now I'm back playing Sion, Taliyah and the broken little Fcer named Kled. Only to see malz continue to get gutted. I get pissed off playing against the insult pretending to be the same malz as before, but till this nerf I stfu about it.

This nerf, and the fact that I don't see an end to the nerfs made me try and think of the only viable solution. Malzahar has been abhorrently broken only since the rework. End the rework, and Malz will return to the state he was in before. A problem in the hands of someone who invested time into mastering him. Mediocre above silver to the standard player. If riot gives us back the soul of malzahar. They get one massive problem off their hands, and support malz will cease to exist as meta.

I have my own thread on the topic;

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MAwEKd1Z-riotrepertoir

This being said. Malz is no longer Malz. It may not look it. But it feels it.

ParoeFeb 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This being said. Malz is no longer Malz. It may not look it. But it feels it.

Trump style policies. "Change it how you want it to changed regardless of the originals designers vision and if it alienates the existing playerbase then eh, we have the money to let it go"

Warwick is a warren style rework; "Change it only how it needs to changed to function properly in the current times and respect the original designers vision".

Warren style reworks are rare, far and few between. Trump style reworks are the norm because riot doesnt even respect themselves.

TheWoollyMammothFeb 9, 20171 votes

Don't forget Clinton style policies."Delete the patch notes saying you nerfed a champion and pretend it never happened. If a designer tries to prove otherwise. Delete them as well."

Don't think riot has needed to resort to that yet though..

ParoeFeb 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget Clinton style policies."Delete the patch notes saying you nerfed a champion and pretend it never happened. If a designer tries to prove otherwise. Delete them as well."

Less politics more buisiness. Policies was the wrong word ;-; trumps buisiness style is entirely "buy what i want and change it how i want it changed. If i alienate the existing customers fuck'em; take the money and run."

TheWoollyMammothFeb 9, 20171 votes

Perhaps, but i had to finish off the three. and my comment gave me a decent chuckle tbh XD

HyperiönFeb 8, 20172 votes

Let's be honest, malzahar hasn't been a mid laner since the MYMU.

Jinzo TorranceFeb 8, 20172 votes

Is the guide from MOBAfire or something? You put a point in W level 1 or 2 depending on the matchup, not at level 3, that's for Q.

Malzahar maxes E first for it's CD, (15/13/11/9/7) without it Voidling take ages to waveclear (and mages are supposed to waveclear) and you can't trade at all because Voidling will attack who they pleases if you don't have E ready to use on the enemy champion.

What Malzahar maxes seconds depends on the player actually, putting a point in W adds only 10 base damage but reduces it's CD while maxing Q gives a longer silence duration and more damage, I mostly max Q for the silence and because I run 20% CD in runes (so 20% from runes and 20 % from Morellos makes me feel like I have W ready when I need it).

Malzahar needs both of his W charge to kill someone, having 1 seconds delay between it's uses it's pretty harsh for him, it means he either gives up the second charge and ults so his can team can follow on the kill (he can't kill anybody with only one W) or risks not ulting anymore. Malz has no mobility and Voidling have only 3 seconds to split (now 2.65 thanks to delay) and, without ult to keep the enemy still you may get at best 3-4 voidiling total now.

Also Malzahar is an immobile champion and his only HARD CC is on his ultimate, the delay on Voidling also make him extremely vulnerable if it's shield it's not up (and usually it's not for the lane phase) as he can't use it to "outplay" an hard CC (Brand Q, Blitz Q, Morg Q, Ahri E, LB E, Xerath E, etc..), instead of using W in a reactionary way, now he uses W in a preventive way hoping the other guy misplays and uses his ability. The "some sick space-crab plays" means that Riot has no clue on what they just did, Malzahar can't anything to "outplay", E is targeted, W is situational as I said and R is targeted too (Flash+R is not outplay IMO). Best he can do is predicting a flash and Q accordingly and any champion can predict a skillshot.

His delayed waveclear didn't change much, but Malzahar it's not the best duelist anymore. He just instantly supresses by point-clicking a guy for 2.5 seconds now, he can't use both W charge without risking to die, he basically trades everything for a 100% reliable single target Veigar E.

TheHappyReaperzFeb 8, 20171 votes

Wouldn't the CD on Void pups be .75s? Since it has a .35s cast time?

CrettFeb 8, 20171 votes

Well. I liked forcing people to run to their inner tower by dropping an E and two Ws, taking half their health. now the trade is harder to drop on them and malzahar's lane will have a harder time being aggressive and making quick plays (cant instantly drop two Ws and ult somebody anymore. you only get one unless you take the extra second to set up)

im no malzahar main either tho.

ErockandrollFeb 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well. I liked forcing people to run to their inner tower by dropping an E and two Ws, taking half their health. now the trade is harder to drop on them and malzahar's lane will have a harder time being aggressive and making quick plays (cant instantly drop two Ws and ult somebody anymore. you only get one unless you take the extra second to set up)

im no malzahar main either tho.

I mean, that's exactly the same kinda play patter that made Support Malz Oppressive. And Riot is going to attack an oppressive patter, regardless of what position they are played in.

{quoted}

Is the guide from MOBAfire or something? You put a point in W level 1 or 2 depending on the matchup, not at level 3, that's for Q.

Malzahar maxes E first for it's CD, (15/13/11/9/7) without it Voidling take ages to waveclear (and mages are supposed to waveclear) and you can't trade at all because Voidling will attack who they pleases if you don't have E ready to use on the enemy champion.

What Malzahar maxes seconds depends on the player actually, putting a point in W adds only 10 base damage but reduces it's CD while maxing Q gives a longer silence duration and more damage, I mostly max Q for the silence and because I run 20% CD in runes (so 20% from runes and 20 % from Morellos makes me feel like I have W ready when I need it).

Interesting, though I think the support build is more focused on the Voidlings, and maxs them first. So if you wanted to try and discourage the W max for something more favorable for laning. My first thought was to make Voidling stats, scale off of champion level instead of ability rank. Alternatively, flat line the CD on the W recharge.

Personally though, I don't really care about position. If Malz is fun to play, I'll play him in what ever position that I find effective.

CrettFeb 9, 20171 votes

I agree with you. It was annoying to play against lmao.

ParoeFeb 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean, that's exactly the same kinda play patter that made Support Malz Oppressive. And Riot is going to attack an oppressive patter, regardless of what position they are played in.

Interesting, though I think the support build is more focused on the Voidlings, and maxs them first. So if you wanted to try and discourage the W max for something more favorable for laning. My first thought was to make Voidling stats, scale off of champion level instead of ability rank. Alternatively, flat line the CD on the W recharge.

Personally though, I don't really care about position. If Malz is fun to play, I'll play him in what ever position that I find effective.

Support malzahar is a damage support with minimal CC. His entire role is to poke the enemy botlane so that your ADC can farm more effectively; malzahar is a counter pick to powerhouse supports like poppy, sion, leona, and thresh. As a support, your entire job is E --> WW because your voidlings do damage, but are hardly ever lethal.

Honestly riot should just make voidlings permenant minions at this point. They feel so extremely clunky and have become one of the worse abilities in the game...

VraneshAug 5, 20171 votes

Dear Riot. Since it seems you can't keep your urges in check and not to touch Malz, please delete him from the game. I used to play him and he was okay. At least he could farm. Then you decided to give him a rework. Well, that didn't work well, did it? then you decided to change him again. And then changed him again, and again. Since then he can't farm because you can kill his minions easily now, his abilities don't do damage enough for him to be an asset to farm, and his auto is really weak. Please, bring the old Malz back, or just kill him and be done with it. But I know my cries are going nowhere, since you will be "fucking" him again to my sorrows.