Theres no point in playing tanks now...

DildanIG·Dec 4, 2018·54 votes·17,170 views

I've never been a fantastic player but i've been around since season 3-4, the current state of this game is absurd. Why is there so much damage just being pumped into the game and champions with absolutely annoying kits??!? I love playing tanky characters top lane however theres just no fun in it anymore because you are either getting ran around in circles by lucians/viktors etc in top lane or assassins just completely deleting you within seconds, this game just doesn't feel satisfying to play anymore :(

94 Comments

MrFawknSunshineDec 4, 201835 votes

here is something to chew on for a min i posted it in a gameplay thread that a RIOTER posted

1st off conqueror is front loaded it gives AD + true damage and its used on champs that are as tanky as tanks at early levels with much more damage out put

i mentioned playing vs fiora and winning due to the fact she played bad and even though i out played her i still lose, still lose trades. cuz of conqueror + ignite ( and her kit )

no tank auto wins , champs like darius, urgot, irelia, akali, fiora , jax all win in lane. and then all out scale. they either get to go conqueror or dark harvest with ignite.

other then SION there isnt a legit viable tank for solo lanes/jungle

Leona/Alistar and to a point Braum are viable in bot lane depending on match up.

why be a tank if you can be urgot get 1 damage item and out damage and tank a tank. or be jax/irelia and have damage reduction gap closers and scale with CC or darius whos only liability as a champ is no gap closer / subject to being kited. is tanker then maokai while able to go damage runes and win trades ( just one example )

darius at lvl 1 582 hp 64 ad 10 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr and 340 ms maokai at lvl 1 565 hp 64 ad 5 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr 335 ms

so we see darius has 17 more hp at lvl 1 more hp per 5 same armor and mr and more ms

lets look at lvl 18 darius 2282 hp 26 hp per 10 149 ad 107 armor 53 mr maokai 2180 hp 18 hp per 10 130 ad 107 armor 53 mr

so at lvl 18 darius has 182 more base hp more hp per 10 more base ad and same armor mr

darius dont have to build as much defense to be as tanky as maokai while still building damage and having damage runes to benefit him.

and lets look at builds and how the stack with the base stats darius typical build item 3078 item 3053 item 3111 item 3742 item 3065 (not including passives ) 3857 hp 30% cdr 167 armor 153 mr is his stats lvl 18 with no runes maokai typical build item 3068 item 3047 item 3800 item 3001 3805 hp 217 armor 163 mr 30% cdr

so even with 5 items darius still has more hp 25% less armor and only 10 less total mr with having the same cdr having more damage ,kill potential and auto winning lane vs tanks

so nearly as tanky while having damage and damage runes

this is one example of how its pointless and a handicap to be a tank in the current meta

UltrysDec 4, 20184 votes

Good analysis.

That isnt even addressing the kits though. Darius gets boatloads of free damage stats from his passive, plus boatloads of free and easily applied damage from the bleed.

That's not even mentioning his massive ult (true damage?) execute with resets. And it isnt like he doesn't also have CC. He has a pull, which is quick and easy to land with flash and game-changing, and he has a snare.

Plus he has gratuitous amounts of healing if he lands his Q.

I play a lot of rammus jungle, and I happen to know that I cannot 1v1 a darius at any point in the game even if im ahead and hes behind. It's a bit ridiculous!

Hayaishi2Dec 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Good analysis.

That isnt even addressing the kits though. Darius gets boatloads of free damage stats from his passive, plus boatloads of free and easily applied damage from the bleed.

That's not even mentioning his massive ult (true damage?) execute with resets. And it isnt like he doesn't also have CC. He has a pull, which is quick and easy to land with flash and game-changing, and he has a snare.

Plus he has gratuitous amounts of healing if he lands his Q.

I play a lot of rammus jungle, and I happen to know that I cannot 1v1 a darius at any point in the game even if im ahead and hes behind. It's a bit ridiculous!

But it isnt an issue that you can't 1v1 Darius because in a teamfight if you taunt him he dies.

Iota ThetaDec 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But it isnt an issue that you can't 1v1 Darius because in a teamfight if you taunt him he dies.

three champs have taunts..

Hayaishi2Dec 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAX7g859,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T12:14:45.447+0000)

three champs have taunts..

OP IS specifically talking about rammus

Iota ThetaDec 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

OP IS specifically talking about rammus

Oh, that’s my bad. I missed that in the last paragraph. Sorry about that.

SalamencęDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Good analysis.

That isnt even addressing the kits though. Darius gets boatloads of free damage stats from his passive, plus boatloads of free and easily applied damage from the bleed.

That's not even mentioning his massive ult (true damage?) execute with resets. And it isnt like he doesn't also have CC. He has a pull, which is quick and easy to land with flash and game-changing, and he has a snare.

Plus he has gratuitous amounts of healing if he lands his Q.

I play a lot of rammus jungle, and I happen to know that I cannot 1v1 a darius at any point in the game even if im ahead and hes behind. It's a bit ridiculous!

Please do show me where Darius has a snare. As a Darius one trick I would love to know so I can utilize his kit to its maximum potential.

SociaI JusticeDec 4, 20185 votes

other then SION there isnt a legit viable tank for solo lanes/jungle

maokai poppy are really good right now into most top lane matchups, rammus ain't bad in top or jungle either.

MrFawknSunshineDec 4, 20182 votes

not true for poppy /maokai

rammus is ok just like the 9 th best jungler

SociaI JusticeDec 4, 20185 votes

i dunno fam rammus n maokai are hitting 52-54% wr and anyone that has more than a few games on poppy is destroying.

MrFawknSunshineDec 4, 20182 votes

maokai has a 51.90% win rate with a 2% pick rate and a 0.14% ban rate meaning no one is playing him outside the one trick ponies ( such as me ) and he isnt worth a pick or ban

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/8.23/platinum/plus/champion/Maokai/

rammus has a 52.18% win rate with a 3.95% pick rate 4% ban rate https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/8.23/platinum/plus/champion/Rammus/Jungle/

now the average pick/ban rate is 7% so each of these champs are well below the pick/ban averages

win rates dont tell you everything.

BLIGHTBRINGERDec 4, 20182 votes

rammus is ok

Rammus OK

SortaAvgSideKickDec 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

here is something to chew on for a min i posted it in a gameplay thread that a RIOTER posted

1st off conqueror is front loaded it gives AD + true damage and its used on champs that are as tanky as tanks at early levels with much more damage out put

i mentioned playing vs fiora and winning due to the fact she played bad and even though i out played her i still lose, still lose trades. cuz of conqueror + ignite ( and her kit )

no tank auto wins , champs like darius, urgot, irelia, akali, fiora , jax all win in lane. and then all out scale. they either get to go conqueror or dark harvest with ignite.

other then SION there isnt a legit viable tank for solo lanes/jungle

Leona/Alistar and to a point Braum are viable in bot lane depending on match up.

why be a tank if you can be urgot get 1 damage item and out damage and tank a tank. or be jax/irelia and have damage reduction gap closers and scale with CC or darius whos only liability as a champ is no gap closer / subject to being kited. is tanker then maokai while able to go damage runes and win trades ( just one example )

darius at lvl 1 582 hp 64 ad 10 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr and 340 ms maokai at lvl 1 565 hp 64 ad 5 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr 335 ms

so we see darius has 17 more hp at lvl 1 more hp per 5 same armor and mr and more ms

lets look at lvl 18 darius 2282 hp 26 hp per 10 149 ad 107 armor 53 mr maokai 2180 hp 18 hp per 10 130 ad 107 armor 53 mr

so at lvl 18 darius has 182 more base hp more hp per 10 more base ad and same armor mr

darius dont have to build as much defense to be as tanky as maokai while still building damage and having damage runes to benefit him.

and lets look at builds and how the stack with the base stats darius typical build (not including passives ) 3857 hp 30% cdr 167 armor 153 mr is his stats lvl 18 with no runes maokai typical build 3805 hp 217 armor 163 mr 30% cdr

so even with 5 items darius still has more hp 25% less armor and only 10 less total mr with having the same cdr having more damage ,kill potential and auto winning lane vs tanks

so nearly as tanky while having damage and damage runes

this is one example of how its pointless and a handicap to be a tank in the current meta

I think you hit the topic accurately. I love tank characters as well, Leona was the only way I could stand ranked queue. On a side note. You deserve an award for this math. Even showing your work! My math teacher would be proud.

GayFluffyUnicornDec 4, 20182 votes

And this is why the other post exists. Do not balance around bad players.

Critmaster GarenDec 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

why be a tank if you can be urgot get 1 damage item and out damage and tank a tank.

why be urgot tho, when tanks can outtrade you in 1v1 and have have larger team utility and teamfight impact?

i agree, that damage right now, especially certain champions and mechanics are a bit out of hand.

shouldnt be a carry from the support role

Vayne i dont care if shes weak against other adc. why does her w deal 14% max health true damage? thats way overtuned. just playing against her makes you want to kill yourself as a tank or jugger.

some marksmen like mf, lucian, jhinn are practically assassins.

there are numbers of other examples.

however a lot of people also play tanks wrong during the lane phase. their job isnt to fight and win against juggernauts. theyre supposed to focus on pushing and roaming to get their carry lanes ahead. because thats what theyre really good at.

MrFawknSunshineDec 4, 20182 votes

i agree that people play tanks wrong but tanks cant even lane with out being bullied out of lane.

you would agree that darius flat out destroys melee tanks in top lane just by default of his kit, conqueror and ignite? im not talking about trying to fight with him. when i play this match up i avoid trying to get involved in trades ( playing like a bitch ) just to get farm and try to be a factor come mid game. in my big post above i was playing maokai vs a fiora ( i know she should win ) but i was the better player as maokai then the fiora was and even though i could solo kill her when she would all in me she would auto win the lane cuz offensive stats > def stats ( riot even stated it ) she could do true damage, dodge my cc , get crits and heal from ult and didnt get punished for building glass cannon but i got punished for my champ and building pure hp/armor

what i want better balance. tanks as a whole are under preforming as a class if you go and look up top champs in each role you will see one tank top SION out of the top 10, one in jungle rammus, none mid, and alistar, with braum/leona but they arent even the top.

the meta favors bruisers/fighters who can use ignite , conqueror and dark harvest.

hell i got hard fuked last night i was 1st pick i picked maokai ( kinda of a one trick ) enemy picked teemo with dark harvest + ignite he get to constantly poke me to half hp and hit me with anything and proc DH and get bonus damage that stacked forcing me back losing farm/cs exp. my jungler tried to gank while at half hp he proc DH on her killing her and then with the reset ran me down with ignite and proc DH again for a double kill. ( i blame the jungler for waiting til lvl 8 to gank him and to gank while low hp )

but any who with all this said i still have a 53% win rate on maokai

i just dont feel that bruisers/juggs/fighters should get a free lane phase and get to be as tanky as tanks and have access to scaling

Critmaster GarenDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

i agree that people play tanks wrong but tanks cant even lane with out being bullied out of lane.

you would agree that darius flat out destroys melee tanks in top lane just by default of his kit, conqueror and ignite? im not talking about trying to fight with him. when i play this match up i avoid trying to get involved in trades ( playing like a bitch ) just to get farm and try to be a factor come mid game. in my big post above i was playing maokai vs a fiora ( i know she should win ) but i was the better player as maokai then the fiora was and even though i could solo kill her when she would all in me she would auto win the lane cuz offensive stats > def stats ( riot even stated it ) she could do true damage, dodge my cc , get crits and heal from ult and didnt get punished for building glass cannon but i got punished for my champ and building pure hp/armor

what i want better balance. tanks as a whole are under preforming as a class if you go and look up top champs in each role you will see one tank top SION out of the top 10, one in jungle rammus, none mid, and alistar, with braum/leona but they arent even the top.

the meta favors bruisers/fighters who can use ignite , conqueror and dark harvest.

hell i got hard fuked last night i was 1st pick i picked maokai ( kinda of a one trick ) enemy picked teemo with dark harvest + ignite he get to constantly poke me to half hp and hit me with anything and proc DH and get bonus damage that stacked forcing me back losing farm/cs exp. my jungler tried to gank while at half hp he proc DH on her killing her and then with the reset ran me down with ignite and proc DH again for a double kill. ( i blame the jungler for waiting til lvl 8 to gank him and to gank while low hp )

but any who with all this said i still have a 53% win rate on maokai

i just dont feel that bruisers/juggs/fighters should get a free lane phase and get to be as tanky as tanks and have access to scaling

i can understand that. its the same problem a lot of slow fighters have with ranged champions in the top lane. its pretty much impossible for us to do anything but stand in xp range, giving up farm in many situations.

CloakAndGrenadeDec 5, 20181 votes

This is having a domino effect too. Fighters and bruisers are far more scary to the average ADC than a tank. With everyone going damage and tank's being bad ADC's are in the same spot. Which makes supporting a literal nightmare. Alistar is only useful thanks to his ult, but just about every other tank support is in the same itemization boat as top lane and jungle tanks. Riot spent most of this season nerfing support items in general as well. I have hardly been able to win a game because Riot has effectively executed the support role along with tanks. Even more tanky/support junglers like Ivern and Skarner are pretty unplayable at all but the highest elo's.

MrFawknSunshineDec 5, 20181 votes

i agree i am a maokai OTP for 3 seasons now, ( going on4 ) and i am a support main since pre season of season 3. i love tanks and supports.

you can go look at stats that back this up. Alistar is only legit viable tank support, braum/leona is ok depending on match ups. and only other tanks we see in top 10 of any roles are SION top, Rammus jungle.

so out of how many champs now? 140+? we have 5 tanks that are ok to play?

i still do ok on maokai considering im a OTP but i have to completely adjust my playstyle since about mid season where i cant be argo at all in lane i have to be a passive bitch and hope i dont get to far behind. whats even funnier is being maokai top in auto losing lanes i still get camped and dove. like really? wtf are you gonna do by setting me behind? im maokai i still am useful due to my cc i just dont have the tank items as soon as i need.

Vile OdiumDec 4, 201818 votes

100% agree, the game is so shit atm, tanks and adcs are unplayable

KaìjuDec 4, 20184 votes

Lost a game on Cait today because my Urgot support died 4 times to Jhin in about 8 minutes, and Syndra started fine but ended up feeding Kat who proceeded to roll me and I get blamed for not kiting out Kat and asking for peel. I died 4 times in total yet I am the one to blame. ADC is miserable right now.

RagnaveilDec 4, 20189 votes

We feel ya as Tank players man. We didn't ask for this shit.

KaìjuDec 4, 20181 votes

I have not won a game on Cait in several weeks. At this point I'm basically inting since I know for a fact I won't win. This shit is miserable, I'm rushing Stormrazor and still not doing any damage. What the fuck is the point of the item.

ButtsubushiDec 6, 20181 votes

Wait, why are you rushing an AD assassin item on a marksman?

KaìjuDec 7, 20181 votes

Stormrazor was literally added for marksman. "Marksman itemization is pretty focus on marksmen who want to stand still and basic attack. With Stormrazor, we're introducing an item for marksmen with longer pauses between attacks, whether they're kiting or just have long attack cooldowns (looking at you, Jhin)."

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-811-notes#patch-Stormrazor

ButtsubushiDec 11, 20181 votes

sorry forgot the /s.

Just look at the several versions of Stormrazor, starting with the first: 70AD and 60% of your TOTAL ad on your first basic attack (need 60% to cap) AND gives you a burst of 10% MS for 1.75 SECONDS. How can this not be good on zed, blue kayn, rengar, talon, etc?

8.12: (+ I.E cost 3700->3600, no other changes) 70 -> 75 AD 20 -> 10% ms 1.75 -> 0.75 sec duration

8.13: 60 -> 30% crit needed to cap

8.15: (+ I.E cost 3600->3400, 80->70 AD, true dmg 15->10%, BF+BF->BF+pick) 3200 -> 2800 gold 75 -> 65 AD 30 -> 25 AS

8.17: 65 -> 60 AD 160% -> 140% first crit 25 -> 35% AS

With these changes SR from its release (IE changes for comparison so you have an idea on what is happening with crit marksman at the time) they can't get the item right. While SR isn't the BEST on all AD assassins (you still want dusk+ghostblade), SR has to get hit constantly to stop assassins from dipping into an item that is CHEAP and gives extra BURST. Assassins have to build active items tiamat/hydra or cutlass to get that extra damage, but SR has too similar proccing mechanic to duskblade (just land a single auto attack, ez). Assassins will ALWAYS have more total AD than crit marksman and they try several things to pull assassins burst down:

8.16: Sudden Imp: 10->7 lethality Electrocute: 50-220->30-180 base dmg, 50->40 bonus AD, 50-25->25-20 sec CD.

8.17: Duskblade: 18->21 lethality, 30-200 -> 30-150 proc damage

8.20: Dark Harvest: 40-80->20-60 base dmg

Stormrazor sucks because it has to be borderline just good enough for crit marksman and never great for them and for duskblade to be just better first item than SR for assassins and SR is still a great option if an assassin is hard carrying already.

Skeletons GraveDec 4, 20183 votes

adc's are not unplayable. They just FEEL unplayable because of the lack of front line tanks and peel. You solve the issue with tanks feeling useless because of how squishy they are and adc's will get the protection then need to feel playable.

For example i love playing veig. But without a front line its way too hard to carry no matter how big i get. As soon as i que with a top laner friend and ask him to play a tank and peel for me, then we stomp every game.

The best carries right now are the ones with the most mobility and self peel because there is no front line.

GayFluffyUnicornDec 4, 20182 votes

Or adcs could actually git gud and learn how to play how about that?

All this complaining from armless players who want back to walk into 5 enemies with 2k hp janna/lulu shields threeshotting everyone with shyv and bf sword is ridiculous.

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

100% agree, the game is so shit atm, tanks and adcs are unplayable

You should add enchanter supports in that list too. 80% of the people just pick APC and call it support

AseraanDec 5, 20181 votes

HEY im warding on my velkoz supp. And if i keep the enemy out of the fking lane and kill the fking jungler every fking time he gets into our lane YOU BETTER CALL ME FKING SUPPORT.

Abuse meDec 4, 20188 votes

Me : posts factual statistical evidence of tank champions performing well within scope of viable.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/maokai/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/poppy/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/malphite/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tahmkench/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/sion/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/chogath/euw/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ornn/euw/top/diamond

Tank main %%%%%s : https://media1.tenor.com/images/8a4a99d3bd67ba8d9a025c36edf4a624/tenor.gif?itemid=6220235

PB4UAMEDec 4, 20184 votes

You're cherry picking your stats, and wonder why no one takes them seriously?

Iota ThetaDec 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abuse me,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAX7g859,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-12-04T09:24:33.100+0000)

Me : posts factual statistical evidence of tank champions performing well within scope of viable.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/maokai/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Maokai/

Mostly mains and OTPs, but also came out the healthiest of the three tank update reworks.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/poppy/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Poppy/

Poppy is stronger into comps wth dashes. She also has slightly more consistent damage with with her low CD Q.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/malphite/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Malphite/

What’s strong lately? AD champs. Who loves fighting AD? Malphite. Mostly a meta situation and even now his winrate is beginning to lower again.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tahmkench/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/TahmKench/Top/

Wait, seriously. You are trying to use a toplane Tahm, with a playrate of <.5% to say tanks are viable? Wonder why people don’t want to listen to you, similar to you having prior listed Viktor in support of tank strength top lane.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/sion/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sion/

Sion is pointed to by many to say tanks are ok, but Sion is one of the only ones and it is pretty much solely because of Demolish and how his passive works, a strength unique to him. He lately has been a poor indicator of the overall tank status.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/chogath/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Chogath/

Cho has such a low playrate, meaning it’s pretty much mains and OTPs playing him.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ornn/euw/top/diamond

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Ornn/

Same goes for Ornn. His playrate and winrate plummeted, hovering in the low 40s for winrate and <2% playrate. That’s terrible.

42-43% winrate on Ornn and Cho’Gath is within viable range in EU with those playrates? That’s as bad as Sejuani worldwide. People diagree because you focus in on EUW only..when people’s issues with tanks, whether weak or strong, are global. Add to that you decide to ignore that some of them have lower playrates as well.

Abuse meDec 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAX7g859,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2018-12-06T12:39:13.011+0000)

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Maokai/

Mostly mains and OTPs, but also came out the healthiest of the three tank update reworks.

Please ask top laners how they feel about state of Makoai whether they think its healthy for champion to heal through any time you decided to play the game. Please ask top laners how they feel about this champion making it virtually impossible to run away from gank and how healthy it is for champion to be capable of avoiding turret aggro when they feel like it

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Poppy/

Poppy is stronger into comps wth dashes. She also has slightly more consistent damage with with her low CD Q.

So poppy is stronger against any comps. Thanks you cleared that up. Also poppy doesnt have just more consistent damage, she bursts any melee champion that builds any for of offensive items as core build. She doesnt even fall off lategame like other tanks.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Malphite/

What’s strong lately? AD champs. Who loves fighting AD? Malphite. Mostly a meta situation and even now his winrate is beginning to lower again.

What is the damage composition of top lane roster?

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/TahmKench/Top/

Wait, seriously. You are trying to use a toplane Tahm, with a playrate of <.5% to say tanks are viable? Wonder why people don’t want to listen to you, similar to you having prior listed Viktor in support of tank strength top lane.

Yea I am gona onclude tahm kench with 0.5% play rate with high win rate just like i would include 0.5% play rate olaf with 43% win rate. Difference is that I havent seen olaf with win rate even close to 50. Kench is there constantly.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sion/

Sion is pointed to by many to say tanks are ok, but Sion is one of the only ones and it is pretty much solely because of Demolish and how his passive works, a strength unique to him. He lately has been a poor indicator of the overall tank status.

Wait, I was unaware that only sion is capable of taking demolish. Thanks for clearing that one up for me. MY BAD.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Chogath/

Cho has such a low playrate, meaning it’s pretty much mains and OTPs playing him. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Ornn/

Same goes for Ornn. His playrate and winrate plummeted, hovering in the low 40s for winrate and <2% playrate. That’s terrible.

Cool.

42-43% winrate on Ornn and Cho’Gath is within viable range in EU with those playrates? That’s as bad as Sejuani worldwide. People diagree because you focus in on EUW only..when people’s issues with tanks, whether weak or strong, are global. Add to that you decide to ignore that some of them have lower playrates as well.

Tank issues are global? Is that so? Even on servers that are statistically worse performers? let me check for convinient picks in Vietnam that I would like to be buffed shall we?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/fiora/vn/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/gangplank/vn/top/diamond these two champs i quite like, lets buff them because they are weak on vietnam. I mean why not. Oh wait you will counter argue with global stats being important okay lets do that!

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/swain/top/diamond you know what I miss on top lane? Ranged matchups! https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/gnar/top/diamond Yeah this poor guy has been doing terrible as well.

Why not look at other of my favorite champs

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/shyvana/jungle/diamond I really miss playing Shyvana you know, farming all game and comming back with full build at 25 minutes and nothing you can do about it. Rito could really help her out. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/irelia/middle/diamond Also why not buff irelia mid at that point as well? I quite enhoy that champion im sure you will all agree. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/veigar/middle/diamond You know what else I miss? Ranged nasus! https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/akali/middle/diamond Akali could use some help as well. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/sivir/adc/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/xayah/adc/diamond Also my two favorite adcies have been struggling lately. Help me out here will ya?

You are using baseless bullshit logic and completely disregard opinion of ENTIRE FIGHTER MAIN POPULATION. If tanks are stronger than they are currently, fighters become useless. I am tired of playing same champions quickly. Fighter roster is 2.5x the size of tank roster. Why would you limit the possibility of diversity on top lane for roster of champions that are statistically, boring to play, boring to play against, stall out games to the point where no strategy other than deathballing becomes the only way. Ask top laners that quit the game after tank meta. Not top laners who started playing now, or during season 6, I am talking about people who actually quit the game, how they feel about tank meta.

Iota ThetaDec 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abuse me,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAX7g859,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2018-12-06T13:14:34.078+0000)

Please ask top laners how they feel about state of Makoai whether they think its healthy for champion to heal through any time you decided to play the game. Please ask top laners how they feel about this champion making it virtually impossible to run away from gank and how healthy it is for champion to be capable of avoiding turret aggro when they feel like it

I hear 0 complaints about Maokai’s healing. It’s reduced by an 800g item that any AD can buy. If Maokai gets complaints about anything lately, his the damage from Q max. Not his healing. Virtually impossible to run away from a gank...so he survives and locks you down like a tank is supposed to do? I can’t speak to avoiding turret aggro, he’s the only tank that can do that, and it can be a foolish thing to do if he has an ally with him cause they can get aggro’d. M

So poppy is stronger against any comps. Thanks you cleared that up. Also poppy doesnt have just more consistent damage, she bursts any melee champion that builds any for of offensive items as core build. She doesnt even fall off lategame like other tanks.

I said dashes. Saying comps woth dashes was wrong, but she’s strong against dashes, which messes with the more mobile champs. I also never said her damage wasn’t an issue, nor her supposedly not falling off lategame. But perhaps that specific thing is worth looking into for other tanks so they can survive better.

What is the damage composition of top lane roster?

Mainly toplane and adc. So he makes laning abysmal, ok. You see a malphite, make sure you have magic damage. Conquerer is also very effective against him, as is armor pen. Adapt to win.

He’s also due for a VGU, and has an obnoxious AP build. Take that as you will.

Yea I am gona onclude tahm kench with 0.5% play rate with high win rate just like i would include 0.5% play rate olaf with 43% win rate. Difference is that I havent seen olaf with win rate even close to 50. Kench is there constantly.

Except that means that very very very few people are running that, and are likely focusing on it and Tahm top mains. It is a terrible metric to use because it is an absolutely tiny sample size. Basic Statistics.

Wait, I was unaware that only sion is capable of taking demolish. Thanks for clearing that one up for me. MY BAD.

No, that was not what I said or meant. I said he takes it and also mentioned his passive, which is his unique strength. Why? Because his passive can still proc Demolish and so people have been focusing on objectives with him and that passive. Sion is the only tank that can still do stuff when his health hits 0. That’s his unique strength.

Cool.

Oh, I see. You prefer tanks at low 40s. Hate tanks, I guess.

Tank issues are global? Is that so? Even on servers that are statistically worse performers? let me check for convinient picks in Vietnam that I would like to be buffed shall we?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/fiora/vn/top/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/gangplank/vn/top/diamond these two champs i quite like, lets buff them because they are weak on vietnam. I mean why not. Oh wait you will counter argue with global stats being important okay lets do that!

There’s a difference between global stats and regional stats. If a champ is doing poorly globally, then they need address. As you reduce sample size, you get different results.

They have issues globally because people are posting from all over about the state of tanks.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/swain/top/diamond

Idk what you’re saying here. I have no complaints about Swain, nor have I seen many. If anything, it’s around kit mechanics and less straight power.

you know what I miss on top lane? Ranged matchups! https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/gnar/top/diamond Yeah this poor guy has been doing terrible as well.

Well yeah he has. Riot threw him there. You try balancing his forms.

Why not look at other of my favorite champs

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/shyvana/jungle/diamond I really miss playing Shyvana you know, farming all game and comming back with full build at 25 minutes and nothing you can do about it. Rito could really help her out.

Hm, I don’t disagree here. She shoupd be buffed, or changed. Super low pickrate and 44% winrate. Paints a clear picture to me.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/irelia/middle/diamond Also why not buff irelia mid at that point as well? I quite enhoy that champion im sure you will all agree.

But also look at her playrate. It’s not just winrate that matters. The more people play her, the more it adjusts her winrate. Less experienced players are probably doing worse with how some of her mechanics work.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/veigar/middle/diamond You know what else I miss? Ranged nasus!

Your attempt at Judging Veigar’s stats shows you don’t quite know how to read these. Veigar is a late game champ, requiring to farm up. Look at his winrate/game duration and how he needs to farm up. He’s weak cause the game favors more early play, if it continues in this state, he very well might be due for some buffs, as well as other super late game champs, or they adjust things back to allow longer games.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/akali/middle/diamond Akali could use some help as well.

Akali probably could. She has a true stealth eating a portion of her power though, which will prevent her from being properly balanced.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/sivir/adc/diamond https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/xayah/adc/diamond Also my two favorite adcies have been struggling lately. Help me out here will ya?

Two late game ADCs. See Veigar point. Sivir still has the famous 500 CS lategame teamfight power.

Let’s use some of your statistic reading methods.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/lucian/adc/diamond

Lucian is sitting at around 50% winrate, 53% in EUW. He’s perfectly fine then, right? No nerfs needed?

You are using baseless bullshit logic and completely disregard opinion of ENTIRE FIGHTER MAIN POPULATION. If tanks are stronger than they are currently, fighters become useless. I am tired of playing same champions quickly. Fighter roster is 2.5x the size of tank roster. Why would you limit the possibility of diversity on top lane for roster of champions that are statistically, boring to play, boring to play against, stall out games to the point where no strategy other than deathballing becomes the only way. Ask top laners that quit the game after tank meta. Not top laners who started playing now, or during season 6, I am talking about people who actually quit the game, how they feel about tank meta.

you completely disregard the opinions of the entire tank main opinion, and disregard tanks as “boring to play, boring to play against.” I mean, I can understand the second, since tanks prefer to survive in lane than duel, but the first is incredibly subjective. Ask tank mains, very few will say tanks are “boring to play.” Fighters become useless if tanks are stronger?

First off, tank mains aren’t asking for more damage for tanks to be stronger, but more resistance, utility. Fighter’s would still have their “more damage” role.

Second, let’s just look at overall top lane stats, shall we?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/top/diamond/by-winrate

5 of the top 30 winrates in toplane are tanks globally. Those 5 are Maokai, Tahm with a .5% playrate, Sion, Malphite, and Singed. Majority of the rest are fighters. How about your precious EUW?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/euw/top/diamond/by-winrate

4 out of 39: Poppy, Malphite, Singed, Maokai (<50% now). Hm. Looks like Fighters still dominate and tanks are poor picks..

We don’t want to invalidate fighters, tanks mains want better defenses and utility, not damage. Fighters can keep that and keep their value as damage dealers and split pushers.

Sizzl0rDec 4, 20184 votes

Poppy item 3742

PopcornBunniDec 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

(laughs in item 3071 invalidating Poppy's entire build)

PopperofskiDec 4, 201810 votes

Except it doesn't

Flawless FetusDec 4, 20184 votes

Hey. You. This is the boards. Be careful using facts and/or logic.

AsudDec 4, 20182 votes

Thats because riot fixes fire with pouring oil all over it. Tanks are OP as concept in league. BCS they do too much damage. At the start of season 8 they were broken. Every single one of them. Only a better tank could beat other tank. They are anti fun CC machines with high base damage and stupid stats. They started dominating early game, where fighters were supposed to be stronger and get a chance to get ahead and carry on a champ that brings more risk, and requires more thinking. And it was shit meta. What riot did was even shittier solution. They said to themselves we got this problem that tanks are unkillable early and no bruisers are played and people are quitting and complaining so what we are gonna do is make them killable. And how? We are going to add true damage rune. And that was retarded. Instead of nerfing tanks early the gave fighters conqueror, and now its the only good rune for them now, ONLY way to win lane often is to go conqueror all the time, and substentually play only conqueror champs. But still its better than tank meta.

Exin0Dec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Thats because riot fixes fire with pouring oil all over it. Tanks are OP as concept in league. BCS they do too much damage. At the start of season 8 they were broken. Every single one of them. Only a better tank could beat other tank. They are anti fun CC machines with high base damage and stupid stats. They started dominating early game, where fighters were supposed to be stronger and get a chance to get ahead and carry on a champ that brings more risk, and requires more thinking. And it was shit meta. What riot did was even shittier solution. They said to themselves we got this problem that tanks are unkillable early and no bruisers are played and people are quitting and complaining so what we are gonna do is make them killable. And how? We are going to add true damage rune. And that was retarded. Instead of nerfing tanks early the gave fighters conqueror, and now its the only good rune for them now, ONLY way to win lane often is to go conqueror all the time, and substentually play only conqueror champs. But still its better than tank meta.

"tanks do too much damage" - this is like meme, sorry but i never witness it can you care give me some examples please?

InfernapeDec 4, 20181 votes

Literally Ornn.

Exin0Dec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Literally Ornn.

ok so one vanguard with one problematic ability nerfed to the ground. its all?

AsudDec 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"tanks do too much damage" - this is like meme, sorry but i never witness it can you care give me some examples please?

Tank is a class of champions, intended to sabotage teamfights, soak up the damage, and CC stuff. In every other game thats what tanks do. But, in LoL. Sion can take 25%of your HP with his shield explosion, or mundo can run you down level 1 as his E gives him AD scaling of of missing health of course. The only problem tanks have now is true damage, but if it didnt exist in current state of league tanks would dominate like they used to. Tanks are anti fun, Shen does so much damage early. Ornn beats the shit out of everyone. So does Nautilus, beleive me ive tried. So does Tahm Kench. And dont even get me started on Maokai. Losing a lane to a champion that outscales you because he is stronger than you earlygame is kinda anti fun, dont you think?

Exin0Dec 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tank is a class of champions, intended to sabotage teamfights, soak up the damage, and CC stuff. In every other game thats what tanks do. But, in LoL. Sion can take 25%of your HP with his shield explosion, or mundo can run you down level 1 as his E gives him AD scaling of of missing health of course. The only problem tanks have now is true damage, but if it didnt exist in current state of league tanks would dominate like they used to. Tanks are anti fun, Shen does so much damage early. Ornn beats the shit out of everyone. So does Nautilus, beleive me ive tried. So does Tahm Kench. And dont even get me started on Maokai. Losing a lane to a champion that outscales you because he is stronger than you earlygame is kinda anti fun, dont you think?

and outside busted sion who gets buffs not so long ago every other champ you mention just wanish from game. how many many times you met nautilus in game? 1 in 1000 games? if they are so awesome and busted how is noone playing them? dont get me wrong this insnt rant or attack on you but i never witness full dedicated tank decimating enemy teamy effortlesly, yes i see burst builds like full AP malphite who can delete squishy with ult but than he is beefier mage not tank and die fast or players completly ingoring fact that their lane oponent is tank who can jump on them and dont make changes in their game pattern and itemization and yes tanks have some base damage they need it to just be able be in game if you nerf their damage to the ground everyone just ingnore them in best case scenario or just bully and murder them out of game and dont tell me that nautilus just easily outdamage cammile if she jump on him or darius lose to him. Fun is completly subjective person to person ok you like play zed he is super fun for you but your oponent hate him a he has fun playing imobile fragile champs so who we remove from game to not mess with the fun? and scaling is same thing so by the logic zed must be nerfed to the ground because he is sucking fun from soraka players and scales like 1000 times harder... sorry for english :)

AsudDec 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

and outside busted sion who gets buffs not so long ago every other champ you mention just wanish from game. how many many times you met nautilus in game? 1 in 1000 games? if they are so awesome and busted how is noone playing them? dont get me wrong this insnt rant or attack on you but i never witness full dedicated tank decimating enemy teamy effortlesly, yes i see burst builds like full AP malphite who can delete squishy with ult but than he is beefier mage not tank and die fast or players completly ingoring fact that their lane oponent is tank who can jump on them and dont make changes in their game pattern and itemization and yes tanks have some base damage they need it to just be able be in game if you nerf their damage to the ground everyone just ingnore them in best case scenario or just bully and murder them out of game and dont tell me that nautilus just easily outdamage cammile if she jump on him or darius lose to him. Fun is completly subjective person to person ok you like play zed he is super fun for you but your oponent hate him a he has fun playing imobile fragile champs so who we remove from game to not mess with the fun? and scaling is same thing so by the logic zed must be nerfed to the ground because he is sucking fun from soraka players and scales like 1000 times harder... sorry for english :)

First of all, never apologize for your English. You took time to learn a foreign language. Even if its not perfect you should be proud of it. Now on to the topic again. Look, for most players and its like 90% tanks are anti fun, and hardly anyone wants to play them when they are in OK spot. The only time they get high pickrates is when they are all dead ass broken pieces of garbage. People start picking them when they get tilted because they have no way of beating them. Some of them might be slightly weaker now than they should be but its not a big deal, so are many other champions. Back when league wasn't as insane as it is today, tanks were champions you picked for lategame and teamfighting, as they are team fight machines, with their health and resistances and shitloads of CC and utility. But they are supposed to lose lane against bruisers in top, They are supposed to get invaded in the jungle and they are supposed to lose bot to poke supports. What happens from time to time, is that runes change, or something else that affects them changes and they become a menace, winning lanes against bruisers, invading early game champions just because they can, and killing an adc or supp 100 to 0 on their own with some aftershock like when it was broken at start of season 8. Than some asshole said: Okay we gotta fix this a bit, how do we do this? and the other asshole said: We will give everyone true damage. And tanks got fucked. Like everyone else actually. Now they are no longer lategame champions as every ADC can buy Infinity Edge and get like 15% true dmg on their crits. I wrote a post on this but apparently im not important enough for someone with authority to read my post. True damage needs to be removed from the game with a few very rare exceptions (Ignite, and a couple of champions and spells) So what do we do now? And who is affected? This affects bruisers, tanks, and ADCs the most. With removal of true damage, all tanks instantly get their power back, now this affects everyone. What to do now? Nerf every single tanks early game, both their tank stats and base damage, make them lose lanes to good players. (top and jungle) Give us fervor of battle back as a rune, instead of conqueror. While nerfing the shit out of grasp of the undying. So we have now fixed tanks and bruisers, we got only the crybabies left. What to do with infinity edge? Simple. It was reworked because it used to give enormous power spike on 2 items ( zeal item and IE) allowing a tristana to 2 shot a fucking mage while being 2 lvls behind. They changed it and made it do true damage. while i say make it give crit amplification like it used to, but not all at once, instead make it scale of of champion level, or maybe even time like RoA does. Now the game is fixed mostly. Tanks dont go mid and tower dive mages at level 3 They also dont beat champions they arent supposed to beat in lane, but they cannot die in teamfights and are allowed to do their job. ADCs are still lategame machines but cannot 3 shot a tank because they no longer have true damage. And bruisers get their snowballing and splitpushing like they are supposed to do.

Additionally i though of a great solution to troll picks and in general playing stupid shit where its not supposed to be played by dividing minions into 3 races (top, mid , bot) what this would do is : If you pick Irelia bot for example, well you are going to get 50% of the experience you would normally get. When enemy adc hits level 6 you would still be level 4 and think why do i have to try things that arent supposed to be done. Also if you picked vayne top, you would maybe get level 6 at 12 minutes into the game. this effect on the miniions should dissapear sometime after 10 minutes allowing for lane swaps and so on. We would get healthier teams with less troll picks and toxicity about troll picks.

Exin0Dec 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

First of all, never apologize for your English. You took time to learn a foreign language. Even if its not perfect you should be proud of it. Now on to the topic again. Look, for most players and its like 90% tanks are anti fun, and hardly anyone wants to play them when they are in OK spot. The only time they get high pickrates is when they are all dead ass broken pieces of garbage. People start picking them when they get tilted because they have no way of beating them. Some of them might be slightly weaker now than they should be but its not a big deal, so are many other champions. Back when league wasn't as insane as it is today, tanks were champions you picked for lategame and teamfighting, as they are team fight machines, with their health and resistances and shitloads of CC and utility. But they are supposed to lose lane against bruisers in top, They are supposed to get invaded in the jungle and they are supposed to lose bot to poke supports. What happens from time to time, is that runes change, or something else that affects them changes and they become a menace, winning lanes against bruisers, invading early game champions just because they can, and killing an adc or supp 100 to 0 on their own with some aftershock like when it was broken at start of season 8. Than some asshole said: Okay we gotta fix this a bit, how do we do this? and the other asshole said: We will give everyone true damage. And tanks got fucked. Like everyone else actually. Now they are no longer lategame champions as every ADC can buy Infinity Edge and get like 15% true dmg on their crits. I wrote a post on this but apparently im not important enough for someone with authority to read my post. True damage needs to be removed from the game with a few very rare exceptions (Ignite, and a couple of champions and spells) So what do we do now? And who is affected? This affects bruisers, tanks, and ADCs the most. With removal of true damage, all tanks instantly get their power back, now this affects everyone. What to do now? Nerf every single tanks early game, both their tank stats and base damage, make them lose lanes to good players. (top and jungle) Give us fervor of battle back as a rune, instead of conqueror. While nerfing the shit out of grasp of the undying. So we have now fixed tanks and bruisers, we got only the crybabies left. What to do with infinity edge? Simple. It was reworked because it used to give enormous power spike on 2 items ( zeal item and IE) allowing a tristana to 2 shot a fucking mage while being 2 lvls behind. They changed it and made it do true damage. while i say make it give crit amplification like it used to, but not all at once, instead make it scale of of champion level, or maybe even time like RoA does. Now the game is fixed mostly. Tanks dont go mid and tower dive mages at level 3 They also dont beat champions they arent supposed to beat in lane, but they cannot die in teamfights and are allowed to do their job. ADCs are still lategame machines but cannot 3 shot a tank because they no longer have true damage. And bruisers get their snowballing and splitpushing like they are supposed to do.

Additionally i though of a great solution to troll picks and in general playing stupid shit where its not supposed to be played by dividing minions into 3 races (top, mid , bot) what this would do is : If you pick Irelia bot for example, well you are going to get 50% of the experience you would normally get. When enemy adc hits level 6 you would still be level 4 and think why do i have to try things that arent supposed to be done. Also if you picked vayne top, you would maybe get level 6 at 12 minutes into the game. this effect on the miniions should dissapear sometime after 10 minutes allowing for lane swaps and so on. We would get healthier teams with less troll picks and toxicity about troll picks.

thanks for encouragment on english :). i get it i understand everything you wrote but i am still not conviced on some things. I agree introduction of true damage was cheap move and throw all tank balancing out of window but now you have 100000 tools ingame how to deal with tanks and on top of that defense was nerfed across the board. I dont have numbers and i dont run statstics about that its only anecdotal evidence what i witness ingame as top lane player (before it become unberable for me) and from other lanes it maight be biased or i am completly wrong but from my games top lose to tank because not damage output but full yolo aproach and refuse to change gameplay and items acordingly no matter if they go against teemo or full tank malphite tanks just survive their level 3 all in, you can try at half health jump and instagib teemo but it will not work on maokai for example and he will fight back does it mean he is too strong or damage dealer should win everything but virtue of "i am fighter"? then we have player asking for their champs be the one who should deal with tanks so suposed tankbusters are fighters and all their subclasses, adcs, mages and everyone who choose to so tank naturaly fall off and decide go full ham like full ap maplhite and so and now they remake ornn to juggernaut

AsudDec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

thanks for encouragment on english :). i get it i understand everything you wrote but i am still not conviced on some things. I agree introduction of true damage was cheap move and throw all tank balancing out of window but now you have 100000 tools ingame how to deal with tanks and on top of that defense was nerfed across the board. I dont have numbers and i dont run statstics about that its only anecdotal evidence what i witness ingame as top lane player (before it become unberable for me) and from other lanes it maight be biased or i am completly wrong but from my games top lose to tank because not damage output but full yolo aproach and refuse to change gameplay and items acordingly no matter if they go against teemo or full tank malphite tanks just survive their level 3 all in, you can try at half health jump and instagib teemo but it will not work on maokai for example and he will fight back does it mean he is too strong or damage dealer should win everything but virtue of "i am fighter"? then we have player asking for their champs be the one who should deal with tanks so suposed tankbusters are fighters and all their subclasses, adcs, mages and everyone who choose to so tank naturaly fall off and decide go full ham like full ap maplhite and so and now they remake ornn to juggernaut

Hear me out. I think Riot is just too lazy to work properly. Tanks, are by design and by their kits lategame champions, cc machines that do not die easily. They are there to sabotage. What i am not okay with Is a tank beating a early game champion in the lane because he has higher base damage, more health, and most likely more sustain. Tanks should lose early lanes against pretty much everything unless they are a lot better than their opponent. Sion, Mundo, Garen (not a tank but close) on mid should never be a thing.

We also need more items in the game, more tank specific items, like i have an idea. Make an item called frozen shield, let it give armor and magic resist in not very large amount. Now give it a couple of passives. First one, you get more armor and magic resist based on maximum health, and surrounding champions. Second: buying this item makes you deal 30 % damage on every ability and auto attack. Lastly an Active: activate to instantly root all champions in an AOE around you. Think Lissandra's W. What this thing does is make tank tankier so he cannot die while engaging enemy team. Gives him more CC which is great for a TANK. Aand the negative one is necessary so make him do virtually no damage. Easy, and players would love it as it would make playing tanks more fun. See, i don't hate tanks, or any other class for that matter many need to be better placed in their spot in league. Maokai going 1v1 versus Zed should never be a thing. I agree that Zed shouldnt be able to kill maokai but also why would maokai be able to kill zed like a minion? I dont like fighting Zed when im mid, but i hurts me to see him getting oneshot by a garen. again Garen is not a tank but he kinda is i mean cleaver>full tank is pretty tanky

Exin0Dec 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hear me out. I think Riot is just too lazy to work properly. Tanks, are by design and by their kits lategame champions, cc machines that do not die easily. They are there to sabotage. What i am not okay with Is a tank beating a early game champion in the lane because he has higher base damage, more health, and most likely more sustain. Tanks should lose early lanes against pretty much everything unless they are a lot better than their opponent. Sion, Mundo, Garen (not a tank but close) on mid should never be a thing.

We also need more items in the game, more tank specific items, like i have an idea. Make an item called frozen shield, let it give armor and magic resist in not very large amount. Now give it a couple of passives. First one, you get more armor and magic resist based on maximum health, and surrounding champions. Second: buying this item makes you deal 30 % damage on every ability and auto attack. Lastly an Active: activate to instantly root all champions in an AOE around you. Think Lissandra's W. What this thing does is make tank tankier so he cannot die while engaging enemy team. Gives him more CC which is great for a TANK. Aand the negative one is necessary so make him do virtually no damage. Easy, and players would love it as it would make playing tanks more fun. See, i don't hate tanks, or any other class for that matter many need to be better placed in their spot in league. Maokai going 1v1 versus Zed should never be a thing. I agree that Zed shouldnt be able to kill maokai but also why would maokai be able to kill zed like a minion? I dont like fighting Zed when im mid, but i hurts me to see him getting oneshot by a garen. again Garen is not a tank but he kinda is i mean cleaver>full tank is pretty tanky

again i get it i completely understand your reasoning i just dont agree with some things like tank should autolose early. for instance assassins put on mages in mid pressure to rush zhonia, junglers to play safe and ward etc. same thing should be going for top, enemy pick tank i can go ranged and make him cry. yes tanks shouldnt be oneshoting anyone but is full AP maplhite killing everything with his ult still "tank" or just busted thing with insane ap ratios that shouldnt exist in the first place? itemization should be more important not one generic build capable dealing with everything and counterpicking too otherwise just pick camille and she by the virtue of her kit and class should be able obliterate everything. you mention zed vs maokai ok zed cant kill maokai but if maokai pose no threat (i am not talking about oneshoting) to him he just ingnore him and proceed to murder your backline for that reason you have other players in game and they take care of maokai a open window of opportunity for you. For me perfect state of game should be like no oneshoting for anyone, no bilions ccs, dashes, jumps over wall, etc., more distinct strengt and weaknes for champs, (for example mobile and burst champ LB why she have on top of that free of the jail passive and multiple dashes across the screen? yes she is squishy but this weaknes is nullified by tools they give her and this is case for more and more champs.) and i am on same boat with you on garen but i thing his problem is same for all juggernauts, reaching absurd damage and retain tankiness of real tanks mostly by busted itemization.

AsudDec 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

again i get it i completely understand your reasoning i just dont agree with some things like tank should autolose early. for instance assassins put on mages in mid pressure to rush zhonia, junglers to play safe and ward etc. same thing should be going for top, enemy pick tank i can go ranged and make him cry. yes tanks shouldnt be oneshoting anyone but is full AP maplhite killing everything with his ult still "tank" or just busted thing with insane ap ratios that shouldnt exist in the first place? itemization should be more important not one generic build capable dealing with everything and counterpicking too otherwise just pick camille and she by the virtue of her kit and class should be able obliterate everything. you mention zed vs maokai ok zed cant kill maokai but if maokai pose no threat (i am not talking about oneshoting) to him he just ingnore him and proceed to murder your backline for that reason you have other players in game and they take care of maokai a open window of opportunity for you. For me perfect state of game should be like no oneshoting for anyone, no bilions ccs, dashes, jumps over wall, etc., more distinct strengt and weaknes for champs, (for example mobile and burst champ LB why she have on top of that free of the jail passive and multiple dashes across the screen? yes she is squishy but this weaknes is nullified by tools they give her and this is case for more and more champs.) and i am on same boat with you on garen but i thing his problem is same for all juggernauts, reaching absurd damage and retain tankiness of real tanks mostly by busted itemization.

I didn't say autolose, but should lose to a player of equal skill in the early game. It doesn't make sense that a tank can outduel a better player on a champ that is supposed to be stronger earlygame, and continue smashing him when he completes first item. It's okay to beat a player who makes mistake, but beating players who engaged on you at right time only because every single of your stats is bigger than theirs makes me angry. because no matter what happens, if we were to remove conqueror, no bruiser could ever kill a tank once he completes 2 items. It doesn't happen. The only champs who can do that are the Botrk champs, the adcs and maybe overbuffed darius. Also i'd like to greet you with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzgnAoAFII proving my point