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Karthus shouldn't be able to ult while dead.

CloakAndGrenade··1 votes·1,535 views

Since Riot seems to not consider Karthus's kit toxic enough for a rework (Taking a backseat to Morgana whose kit didn't even change with the update), perhaps a change to his kit would make him less keyboard smashy.

Karthus should be punished for positioning like an ape. If he dies the first three seconds of a fight he shouldn't still be able to spam Q a hundred times and then ult. And while we're at it, make it non-global.

You could double the damage that it does and drop its CD significantly if you do these things. Make him have to damage his ult targets with a non-ultimate ability and be alive in order to ult someone. Add it some skill requirement and increase it's reward for executing it correctly.

As it stands Karthus is actually rewarded for dying immediately since he is immune to crowd control while under the effects of his passive. People complained about "inting scion" and "inting kog maw", but Karthas is the only champion who could int the start of a fight and then headbutt his ult for a pentakill.

17 Comments

ModDaenrysTargaryen7 votes

I would like to bring up the fact that while it was the Kayle and Morgana update, it was Specifically stated that Kayle was getting a full VGU(Visual Gameplay Update) and Morgana was just getting a VU(Visual Update), now lets get to Karthus, Karthus's Idenity is in his passive and his R. His passive for being undead, his R for being the only 5-man Global Ultimate. You got to play around that, like you said his ult is on one of the longest cool-downs in the game.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

{quoted}

I would like to bring up the fact that while it was the Kayle and Morgana update, it was Specifically stated that Kayle was getting a full VGU(Visual Gameplay Update) and Morgana was just getting a VU(Visual Update), now lets get to Karthus, Karthus's Idenity is in his passive and his R. His passive for being undead, his R for being the only 5-man Global Ultimate. You got to play around that, like you said his ult is on one of the longest cool-downs in the game.

It's still disappointing that they went into August saying actual changes to Morgana were likely, then decided against them.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9mtz6lF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-23T04:51:45.076+0000)

It's still disappointing that they went into August saying actual changes to Morgana were likely, then decided against them.

Yes, likely as in "they might happen but they also might not". They never committed into making any changes to her. You really had nothing to be disappointed about. It's like someone saying "hey we might go to the movies on Sunday" and then getting mad at them because they can't go to the movies

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, likely as in "they might happen but they also might not". They never committed into making any changes to her. You really had nothing to be disappointed about. It's like someone saying "hey we might go to the movies on Sunday" and then getting mad at them because they can't go to the movies

r/iamverysmart for knowing what the word likely means.

Disappointment: sadness or displeasure caused by the nonfulfillment of one's hopes or expectations.

Anger: a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure, or hostility.

Literally three seconds to google things if you don't actually know the definition of a word, buddy.

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

Morgana was healthy before the update. That is kind of my point. Meanwhile champions like Karthus, Udyr, Mordekaiser, and Nocturn all have toxic feast or famine kits with little counterplay.

ModDaenrysTargaryen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9mtz6lF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-23T04:51:45.076+0000)

It's still disappointing that they went into August saying actual changes to Morgana were likely, then decided against them.

Morgana did get changes changes in her kit http://www.surrenderat20.net/2019/03/kayle-and-morgana-champion-updates-in-95.html (scroll down to morgana) her W got some changes, and her R got a movement speed action added to it. If you were expecting a whole different ability that never was going to happen.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Morgana did get changes changes in her kit http://www.surrenderat20.net/2019/03/kayle-and-morgana-champion-updates-in-95.html (scroll down to morgana) her W got some changes, and her R got a movement speed action added to it. If you were expecting a whole different ability that never was going to happen.

K. If you wanna make that claim in hindsight, that's on you.

You're as wrong you would be to say they were never going to change Ezreal's W, since you have no basis at all to make the claim they weren't considering it.

ModDaenrysTargaryen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9mtz6lF,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2019-04-23T23:09:00.618+0000)

K. If you wanna make that claim in hindsight, that's on you.

You're as wrong you would be to say they were never going to change Ezreal's W, since you have no basis at all to make the claim they weren't considering it.

Yes, you are correct I should not have assumed that it was never going to happen.

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

His R is global, unstoppable, unblockable, and undodgeable. Late game, it does well over a thousand damage to even full HP targets with a single MR item. It requires no thought, no pretense, no skill. All he has to be aware of is a single enemy HP bar being low and he can get a free kill even if he died just moments before trying to solo rift the moment he hit level six.

His 'identity' is currently toxic.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

His R is global, unstoppable, unblockable, and undodgeable. Late game, it does well over a thousand damage to even full HP targets with a single MR item. It requires no thought, no pretense, no skill. All he has to be aware of is a single enemy HP bar being low and he can get a free kill even if he died just moments before trying to solo rift the moment he hit level six.

His 'identity' is currently toxic.

His ult can also be easily shielded (a single locket nullifies his ult), healed and there are plenty of ways you can straight up laugh at his and completely avoid taking a single point of damage. You not knowing how to deal with a karthus doesn't make him "toxic"

Ephixus1 votes

{quoted}

His R is global, unstoppable, unblockable, and undodgeable. Late game, it does well over a thousand damage to even full HP targets with a single MR item. It requires no thought, no pretense, no skill. All he has to be aware of is a single enemy HP bar being low and he can get a free kill even if he died just moments before trying to solo rift the moment he hit level six.

His 'identity' is currently toxic.

No idea why u are downvoted, forums are full of apes.

ZephyrDrake5 votes

Thanks for letting us know that you have no idea what the point of karthus' passive is

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

It doesn't matter what the 'point' is if the result is toxic.

AeroWaffle3 votes

Karthus should be punished for positioning like an ape.

He is already. If he dies in a bad spot (such as from poke) or dies and the enemy team is able to disengage his passive goes to waste and his ult is not going to kill anyone. Now his own team has to fight 4v5. And given he has no movement abilities of his own he needs to be very careful where he's moving, otherwise he just gets picked off at a bad time.

Karthus almost has to use his ult while dead during a big teamfight because of that channel time. Any Karthus that does otherwise is asking to get CC'ed.

CloakAndGrenade1 votes

Unless he's got a deathcap in which case one Q dark harvest proc + his ult is enough to instakill a squishy that he just flashed on top of.

Name another champ that can flash forward, die on purpose, and be rewarded with kills. I'll wait.

AeroWaffle3 votes

{quoted}

Unless he's got a deathcap in which case one Q dark harvest proc + his ult is enough to instakill a squishy that he just flashed on top of.

Name another champ that can flash forward, die on purpose, and be rewarded with kills. I'll wait.

That's like saying,

"Name another champ that can stack up infinite AP with their abilities"

or

"Name another champ that can teleport between shadows who also cast his abilities"

Flash is not the range of the entire map. Your team's squishy has no business being that close to a mage, Annie would eat them for breakfast. If you see Karthus start barreling toward you and you know his flash is up, be ready to disengage while CC'ing him. He soon dies (because he's a squishy mage) and if the team was positioned properly now the enemy team can't do a thing about the disengage.

Bonus points when you pick a champion that can displace Karthus away from your team making most of his passive worthless even when he gets a great engage.

Tahngarthor2 votes

Lots of champions can do things while dead. I don't really see what the problem is.

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