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I just played Cassiopeia vs Ekko...

Leu07··12 votes·15,250 views

Laning phase: He NEVER runs oom, I actually won many trades, but Cassiopeia gets oom after 2 or 3 trades, so I decided to just farm up and play passive, he would just pot up and wave clear easily with his Q, that damn ability does too much damage, its hitbox is insane, it also gives a huge slow and costs too little mana for what it brings. As the game went on, he would just E, AA me, and proceed to run away with his MS passive... if I decided to chase him, he would just ult and proceed to explode me. He tower dived me once, I ulted him in his face, he would just have thrown his Q and an ignite and when I ulted, he just ulted while in CC! NO Assassin is that safe, Zed can't go back to his shadow while he is ccd... I don't know why Ekko's R does not cost any mana, that's stupid for such a strong ability. In the video, when he time traveled the few seconds back, he turned his arm device, how can he do that when he is turned into stone? LOGIC. He would then proceed to burst everyone over and over again, just by that cheap E+AA+Q combo, then run away.

I really hope those pbe nerfs to him are just a little taste for more upcoming nerfs. He needs his Q's width, ratio and slow reduced, and also its mana cost increased. He shouldn't have that W passive, how does that thematically fits him? to deal more damage to low health enemies? that's a Zed thing, not a time shifter thing. He also needs a mana cost on his ult and that he can not cast his ult while in cc. Maybe, just increase all his mana costs, really, he never went oom the entire game.

54 Comments

Player of Games9 votes

So much exaggeration in one post. Firstly, he cannot use his ult while CC'd. You're either, lying, experiencing bad latency, or assuming. Secondly, his Q is his most costing ability, at max rank being 100 mana, with Ekko's rather low mana pool (especially considering the fact that you don't usually purchase a mana regen item) a few casts of Q with run him completely oom with other abilities.

About him running up and AA+Q'ing everyone, why are you letting him do that for free? Why is no one cc'ing him? And to be quite frank, Cassiopeia is a relatively hard lane for Ekko. He cannot farm safely ever, you hit one Q on him and then spam E like the binary champ Cass is and come ontop of every trade. She has FAR greater mana sustain, and innate sustain, stop bitching because you don't know how to play against a champion, and try playing him so you learn what he can and cannot do.

Leu074 votes

{quoted}

So much exaggeration in one post. Firstly, he cannot use his ult while CC'd. You're either, lying, experiencing bad latency, or assuming. Secondly, his Q is his most costing ability, at max rank being 100 mana, with Ekko's rather low mana pool (especially considering the fact that you don't usually purchase a mana regen item) a few casts of Q with run him completely oom with other abilities.

About him running up and AA+Q'ing everyone, why are you letting him do that for free? Why is no one cc'ing him? And to be quite frank, Cassiopeia is a relatively hard lane for Ekko. He cannot farm safely ever, you hit one Q on him and then spam E like the binary champ Cass is and come ontop of every trade. She has FAR greater mana sustain, and innate sustain, stop bitching because you don't know how to play against a champion, and try playing him so you learn what he can and cannot do.

Hmmm who is getting the downvotes????

Player of Games7 votes

{quoted}

Hmmm who is getting the downvotes????

Downvotes mean absolutely nothing. I've stated nothing but pure fact, if you choose to disregard it then you're only blinded by your own fueled ignorance. It's not a very hard concept to grasp, learn the champion, it's so easy to scream "OP PLS NERF OP" when you don't know how to play against something.

You must be one of those people who think Riven is freelo too and claims she's op and unstoppable.

Xonra1 votes

{quoted}

Downvotes mean absolutely nothing. I've stated nothing but pure fact, if you choose to disregard it then you're only blinded by your own fueled ignorance. It's not a very hard concept to grasp, learn the champion, it's so easy to scream "OP PLS NERF OP" when you don't know how to play against something.

You must be one of those people who think Riven is freelo too and claims she's op and unstoppable.

Casters, Pros, and Riot friggin employees are claiming he is broken. Stating it flat out on Reddit and Twitter. So it seems you are the one who doesn't know what they are talking about, when employees of the friggin company, and pro players who play this game for a living are stating (with reasons in most cases, not just calling "op) that he is far too strong.

Icestar11861 votes

Both of you, by the looks of things.

Velasan3 votes

{quoted}

So much exaggeration in one post. Firstly, he cannot use his ult while CC'd. You're either, lying, experiencing bad latency, or assuming. Secondly, his Q is his most costing ability, at max rank being 100 mana, with Ekko's rather low mana pool (especially considering the fact that you don't usually purchase a mana regen item) a few casts of Q with run him completely oom with other abilities.

About him running up and AA+Q'ing everyone, why are you letting him do that for free? Why is no one cc'ing him? And to be quite frank, Cassiopeia is a relatively hard lane for Ekko. He cannot farm safely ever, you hit one Q on him and then spam E like the binary champ Cass is and come ontop of every trade. She has FAR greater mana sustain, and innate sustain, stop bitching because you don't know how to play against a champion, and try playing him so you learn what he can and cannot do.

Uhh indeed why is this person being downvoted? Everything he said is accurate.

Any kind of snare CC stops Ekko's R. Can read it right on the wiki if you want to.

umbraˉ9 votes

Ekko is currently the 1st easiest and 1st strongest champion in the ENTIRE game and needs MASSIVE nerfs.

He just simply requires no skill.

Player of Games4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbra Gemini,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F84nhEzo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-03T05:40:29.686+0000)

Ekko is currently the 1st easiest and 1st strongest champion in the ENTIRE game and needs MASSIVE nerfs.

He just simply requires no skill.

Shh poor bronzie, maybe one day you'll learn to play against things.

IcyPepper8 votes

You can literally see where he's going to go with his ult at all times, unless you lose vision of him.

He's no more mechanically difficult than Zed, I admit, but playing with him and against him is all about positioning. Even his stun has a three second delay.

He's going to need number nerfs, and maybe some tweaks to visual clarity, but you can't deny he's got counterplay. Imagine if you could see four seconds into the future and know where Katarina is going to ult tho.

kanacho5 votes

Lee Sin, Elise, and Yasuo were all "counterplayable" back in their Pre-nerf days, but the problem was they had massively overloaded kits ontop of ridiculous numbers that made them super irritating to play against.

Not a matter of counter-play as it is a matter of them straight up being Op.

Also if you never even landed ekko's ulti for damage ONCE during a game (even with that super huge scaling), you still get a MASSIVE heal, a potentially MASSIVE escape/engage tool, a potential Teleport, a brief Invulnerability and missile negation like half a kayle ulti, all wrapped into 1 package. Yeah, sure against players who know not to stand ontop of echo's after-image you might never land the damage, but it has so much utility that it seems like it hardly matters.

Overloaded Kit + Ridiculous Numbers = Pre-nerf Yasuo, LeeSin, and Elise.

Now also Ekko

Player of Games2 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin, Elise, and Yasuo were all "counterplayable" back in their Pre-nerf days, but the problem was they had massively overloaded kits ontop of ridiculous numbers that made them super irritating to play against.

Not a matter of counter-play as it is a matter of them straight up being Op.

Also if you never even landed ekko's ulti for damage ONCE during a game (even with that super huge scaling), you still get a MASSIVE heal, a potentially MASSIVE escape/engage tool, a potential Teleport, a brief Invulnerability and missile negation like half a kayle ulti, all wrapped into 1 package. Yeah, sure against players who know not to stand ontop of echo's after-image you might never land the damage, but it has so much utility that it seems like it hardly matters.

Overloaded Kit + Ridiculous Numbers = Pre-nerf Yasuo, LeeSin, and Elise.

Now also Ekko

While I agree with you on most of this, I have to disagree with the ridiculous numbers part. Ekko's ratios are actually quite low, his Q (in comparison to many other skillshot Q midlaners ahri/zed/xerath etc) pales in comparison sitting at an initial .2 ratio, and a .6 on the return. It does decent damage if you hit both with a total of .8, but it's honestly VERY easy to avoid the second part if you have a brain and weren't previously CC'd. His W numbers are a bit on the high side, but for a massive 3 second delay which is almost completely avoidable in lane unless he casts from the fog, the numbers should be high.

Only thing I have a problem with is how super effective his ult is at everything, however, I feel that only a single aspect of it needs to be touched. It either needs to have less damage, less healing, both, or a higher cooldown. I personally feel like it's CD should be higher. As it stands it's up almost everytime Ekko comes to lane leaving only moderate windows of opportunity to actually kill him.

kanacho2 votes

His ultimate scaling is extremely high, and though his ratios don't seem strong on the surface, it's a lot of the hidden power like Lee Sin had. Remember that little text difference that made him a whole lot more broken? His AOE Slow use to be an AOE Slow and AS slow for the same percentage, meaning that it would completely shut down AS bruisers like Xin, or ADC's that he got remotely close too, until that CC wore off, leaving a huge window for you to vastly outdamage the enemy team.

Ekko's W not only is a massive AOE stun, but also gives him a massive self-shield (scales well like riven's dash shield), ontop of a passive that does % damage when an enemy is at 30% Hp or less. It's basically Zed's Passive (a tiny bit weaker in terms of % required on activation), combined with riven's super carry scaling shield, and veigar's event horizon with a longer delay, but a vastly more effective stun which is very easy to land in team fights when it's hard to dodge everything.

That's just 1 ability, and his passive that gives a MS buff to himself, a slow to the enemy, and huge burst is another example of hidden power, not to mention his Q makes it so easy to slow MASSIVE numbers of targets, and is easy to catch the return in team fights. It shows that Ekko becomes absurdly strong in team fights and ganks, where enemies are more distracted with your teammates, while you can land all this free CC and the unexpected damage. He's also got great mobility, one of the best escape/reengage tools, and so many things that make him so much like a pre-nerf Lee Sin that it should have been obvious to avoid this happening AGAIN.

Onegarion1 votes

Not sure if you overlooked it, but why not make it so it has a Mana Cost as well? Its always an option at least.

kanacho1 votes

Yeah IDK, why it wouldn't on a mage with mana... Doesn't make much sense imo. It's not like it gives him mana back, right? Just health, so idk why it wouldn't. Even zilean's ulti costs mana.

Vik4prez1 votes

As far as im aware, Ekkos opponent doesn't get 3 seconds of delay on his W. Sure, they can see his ghostly image winding up to hit it, but they wont know where its going to land. I don't know an exact time frame, but I know for a fact that you don't have a full 3 seconds to plan your movements to avoid his W.

Honestly people need to stop looking at his kit in terms of individual abilities. He has the ability to come at you instantly, hitting you with his E, both hits of Q and his passive for a pretty severe chunk of damage that many mid laners would struggle to return back on him, and that only gets compounded if he uses his W for the stun/self shield on top of it.

So while his individual abilities might not be inherently ridiculous, his entire kit taken together has the ability to put out ludicrous amounts of damage in a very small span of time leaving his opponent almost no potential for returning proper damage on him. And even if he finds himself in a sticky situation, he has his "get out of jail free card" of an ult that not only moves him a long distance, but also provides a substantial heal and an absurd amount of damage if anyone is unfortunate enough to get near it.

His kit is completely overloaded and needs to be tweaked.

Player of Games1 votes

{quoted}

As far as im aware, Ekkos opponent doesn't get 3 seconds of delay on his W. Sure, they can see his ghostly image winding up to hit it, but they wont know where its going to land. I don't know an exact time frame, but I know for a fact that you don't have a full 3 seconds to plan your movements to avoid his W.

Honestly people need to stop looking at his kit in terms of individual abilities. He has the ability to come at you instantly, hitting you with his E, both hits of Q and his passive for a pretty severe chunk of damage that many mid laners would struggle to return back on him, and that only gets compounded if he uses his W for the stun/self shield on top of it.

So while his individual abilities might not be inherently ridiculous, his entire kit taken together has the ability to put out ludicrous amounts of damage in a very small span of time leaving his opponent almost no potential for returning proper damage on him. And even if he finds himself in a sticky situation, he has his "get out of jail free card" of an ult that not only moves him a long distance, but also provides a substantial heal and an absurd amount of damage if anyone is unfortunate enough to get near it.

His kit is completely overloaded and needs to be tweaked.

This is correct, however, anyone with half a brain will know that once they see the ghostly image one of two things are about to happen; Ekko is trying to setup a gank in an attempt to stun you, or, Ekko is trying to LEAD you into the bubble by throwing it behind you. There are no other options. As soon as you hear the "Step right up!" if you're even slightly competent, you'll back off a good distance for about two seconds until the bubble dissipates.

Congratulations, you've just made Ekko's W active useless. The only time you should ever be getting hit by it is if he casts from the fog, or during a sloppy teamfight where you can't help to be aware of it's position. Also, I believe you're exaggerating some points about trading with Ekko in lane. Yes, he has the ability to come at you instantly with E and hit his Q, HOWEVER, like any other caster for that matter, he's very vulnerable after he just dumped his kit. An Ekko cannot ever 100-0 you directly with an E>Q>Auto>Q unless he's absurdly fed and in that case he deserves to do that being an assassin.

I'm not sure what midlaners you're talking about that struggle to return damage back, but Ekko has a fairly weak laning phase. I highly highly doubt anyone will let him E>Q for free and not do ANYTHING back unless you're very low elo and don't understand trading. Granted his ult is a get out of jail free card, and it should be considering he's a time-shifter, but lets not forget plenty of other midlaners have very similar abilities that can save them from impending doom.

  • Ahri has 3 flashes on her ult that all do decent damage and can cross walls.
  • Leblanc's Distortion can not only cross most walls, but you have 4 seconds to return, meaning you can traverse FAR more distance than that of Ekko's delayed after image, and return to safety coupled with a low cooldown FOR FREE (on the return obviously).
  • Zed's R, I don't have to say anything about this, albeit receiving a 1 second delay, if I remember you have SIX whole seconds to go back to your shadow.

Of course these examples aren't an exact comparison of Ekko's ult, which I will agree is kind of overloaded/overtuned right now for what it does, they still offer great safety at lower cooldowns, while offering good damage as well.

IcyPepper2 votes

Well, you aren't wrong.

Even I got gripes about Ekko's design (no cost ult that only energy champions or a small niche should have, multiple passives, healing doesn't make much sense, why the hell does his passive proc lichbane/luden's can't remember which but either one is bull).

I'm just happy he's not like Leblanc. Even if he is overtuned, at least I can plan ahead and react to what he does.

kanacho1 votes

He becomes the biggest problem in teamfights IMO, where it is harder to keep track of all of what he is doing with everything that's going on.

IcyPepper1 votes

That is true, usually if you're pushing down or Ekko goes in with his E and escapes without punishment (leaving his ghost... ya know four seconds later).

When I was skyping during a game against him, I had to yell at my friends to stay away from the darn ghost in a teamfight! Old habits are deadly. One mistake and... ya know. It's slightly less frustrating than a Katarina ult.

kanacho1 votes

Haha, even a small mistake in walking into that ulti can be capitalized in the right circumstance with an Ekko who knows how to play him. That ulti creates a sort of zoning in a way as a result. I wonder if the utility it has would be strong enough even if they removed all the damage and left everything else the same. I'm not sure, but hopefully Riot figures it out.

Korean Janna2 votes

Bronziest quote. Keeping track is the individual problem not a balance issue

kanacho1 votes

You don't understand the problem. The fact is that his unreal numbers ontop of him being difficult to track in a teamfight makes him shine in teamfights to an obnoxious and toxic extent.

Think of it this way. What if his W had a 5 second Cast time, but did 1000 base damage +5AP Ratio ontop of that? Sure it's very easy to dodge, but do you think that will always happen? No. Quite often you can easily land that W, and those outrageous numbers kicking in cause a massive imbalance issue and this is where it causing problems in teamfights arises.

Just because it is "counter-playable" doesn't mean it's balanced. Remember the same thing happened with Lee Sin AND Elise, and I'm sure people would have (and from my experience did) consider them "Counter-playable" when nerfs on their overloaded kits and outrageous numbers were not only warranted, but were clearly NEEDED in retrospect.

GuileRaven9 votes

"ult while cced"

Cough Cough bullshit.

qetzel1 votes

OR a bug. Why not give the OP the benefit of the doubt?

DomainSpecific2 votes

Because I've played as and against so many Ekkos during this week, yet I have never seen any ult while being CC'd.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

Man, cass wins lvl 2 vs ekko. If he is not dead, he must go to the fountain to heal. You are just bad casio player.

Leu072 votes

{quoted}

Man, cass wins lvl 2 vs ekko. If he is not dead, he must go to the fountain to heal. You are just bad casio player.

Rank 4 cassio player darling... yes, I won the trades early as I said, of course he is not going to stay there while I twin fang, him to dead, he waits till the poison rinses off. Also, he had flask and pots, so eventually Cassio WILL run oom if she keeps trading, leaving her extremely easy to kick out of lane. Yes, I can try to freaking kite him when he E+AA+Q me, but guess what? he has MOUNSTROUS MS and I get slow a lot by his Q, if Cassio keeps a chase, she will just get kited with his Q or probably he will just R and rip you apart. Really, Cassio isn't that lane monster people say she is, not with all the mana nerfs though, I did pretty well in that game, not amazing, but ok. We didn't have a good team comp either, but really, that guy is annoying AF.

DrNova5 votes

Rank 4, omg, so you did what? Oh yeah, you just played Cass a bunch and that means nothing.

And you shoulda bought pots then. Ekko Q costs a good chunk of mana, and he always gets that elixir thing to start. If you did the same you'd have less mana problems.

That, and land some poison so you can spam Q's on him, easy win.

You are just not good enough to do these things

Leu072 votes

{quoted}

Rank 4, omg, so you did what? Oh yeah, you just played Cass a bunch and that means nothing.

And you shoulda bought pots then. Ekko Q costs a good chunk of mana, and he always gets that elixir thing to start. If you did the same you'd have less mana problems.

That, and land some poison so you can spam Q's on him, easy win.

You are just not good enough to do these things

Sure, anything I say will mean NOTHING so yeah, you have the last word if you want, thing is, everyone agrees he is op AF, looks like the stubborn is you.

DrNova7 votes

If you say something intelligent, sure. For one you claimed he ulted while you had him stunned, not possible and ruins your credibility. You literally either lied about this, or didnt actually stun him with ult and just dont pay that much attention (maybe why you lost?)

Second, he burns mana pretty fast if spamming Q. He buys the elixir things to help in lane, you have the EXACT SAME OPTION.

The width on his Q is not wide at all untill it reaches the apex of its journey. If you are moving well and smart, easy to avoid. Dont stand in the minion wave.

And there are PLENTY of people who dont think he's op. These forums are where most of all the complainers come. Literally most of the posts are complaints. Thats just how forums work. People get upset, and want others to know, bam, most of the forum population.

Sure he needs a few numbers tweaks, but he is beatable, I havent lost a lane yet to him, because I played him a ton and know exactly how his kit works.

And finally, Cass should have shat all over Ekko. No excuse to this.

FooDang4 votes

{quoted}

everyone agrees he is op AF

Don't generalize your opinion. Everyone does not agree with you.

The Queen Viper1 votes

Depends... if Ekko has item 2041 then Cass will go oom, and has to go back also, meaning zero gain in that trade.

But sure, overall Cass should be just fine against Ekko.

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

he would just pot up and wave clear easily with his Q, that damn ability does too much damage, its hitbox is insane, it also gives a huge slow and costs too little mana for what it brings

actualy its kinda weak costs a lot for ekkos mana pool early doesnt deal much damage if you wont dodge the second thing anyway easy tip is to dodge sideways not away, ecuase its hitbox is indeed realy big that way if you start dodging his q's and w's he can barely touch you

but yeah once he snowballs then you better hide yyourself

next thing he cant ult while cc'd

while he might seem op ... i think that its all in the hands of his enemies

Matezoide2 votes

Wait, he can ult while CC'ed?

What the fuck?

Player of Games2 votes

{quoted}

Wait, he can ult while CC'ed?

What the fuck?

He can't ult while he's CC'd, refer to my earlier post.

Matezoide2 votes

{quoted}

He can't ult while he's CC'd, refer to my earlier post.

Ah, i see.

Good to know, i only faced one Ekko so far and most of our CC were knock ups, my apologies.

King Flexxed1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, he can ult while CC'ed?

What the fuck?

no he cant

Xonra2 votes

When there is a collection thread being made of Riot employees, casters, and pro players saiyng how blatantly OP he is, people can try to argue against it all they want.

RIOT EMPLOYEES think he is op PRO PLAYERS think he is op THE FRIGGIN PRO (not just LCS, LCK as well) CASTERS think he is broken op.

But ya know, it must just be bad bronzies. <_< no he is broken. His kit does everything. Dashes, heal dash on hit ult, shield cc, wide long range boomerang damage. It is just ridiculous how loaded his kit is. People with 6+ abilities don't have as loaded a kit as he has. It is completely ridiculous.

FooDang3 votes

I want links to all of these claims.

Xonra1 votes

{quoted}

I want links to all of these claims.

Then feel free to go find them. Not copying and pasting cause you don't want to google. They are pretty easy to find, especially the comments on Twitter.

FooDang2 votes

I'm good. I'm not the one making claims and not backing it up with proof.

Xonra1 votes

{quoted}

I'm good. I'm not the one making claims and not backing it up with proof.

No you are just the one with their head apparently in the sand not to see the comments (they aren't exactly hidden lol), and too lazy to go look so you can "win" an argument.

Should I take a picture and walk you outside next time it rains to "back it up with proof" ?

FooDang2 votes

Just checked. I saw a bunch of hearsay of comments that could have been misinterpreted/said in a joking manner. I havent found anything where they said "yes ekko is broken/op because of X and X "

No you dont have to tell me its raining outside the weather channel can tell me that because its a reliable source. Comments from people need to be confirmed with a reliable source.

AnonymousEnigma2 votes

uhhh... pretty sure he cant ult while cced...

Borigrad2 votes

Ekko never runs oom

Pack up boys, we are just straight up lying now. Gotta love Gameplay and Bronze.

AHeroNamedHawke2 votes

>100 mana for a Q at level 9 >550 base mana

LOL OK

FooDang2 votes

If you don't post on your main I won't take your post seriously. I downvoted.

Leu071 votes

{quoted}

If you don't post on your main I won't take your post seriously. I downvoted.

Actually, I'm from LAN, this is my bf account in the NA, we use this account to make comments and give opinions about the game (of course any suggestion made in the LAN server will be... umm... null...) it seems I was wrong about ekko ulting while stunned, I have played against him again and yeah, he gets the stun. And to the other people saying he does run oom, he did pick up a flask=never oom. Anyways, after experiencing some other battles against him, I can say that if you chain cc quickly, he can get blown up easily, but IMO, he still needs more nerfs, maybe just remove that nonsense W passive.

FooDang1 votes

Yea i haven't played league in a couple weeks. I have no idea if he is OP or not. Hopefully in less than a week I'll be able to find out for myself instead of surfing the forums.

chumbler1 votes

You seem to not realize Riot's business model.

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