Cs and KDA are toxic metrics

rtbf22147970·Jan 4, 2015·3 votes·1,256 views

Cs and KDA are toxic and useless statistics for league. It stands to reason that since power comes from items purchased via gold that gold earned is more useful. Cs is toxic mainly due to the discrepancies between Cs value between the jungle and lanes. One full clear can be accomplished in the same time as 5 waves of creeps. 1 clear is 19 Cs worth 422 gold. 5 waves of Cs presuming 100% accuracy is 583 gold at 31 Cs. Thus the jungle is worth 3 gold per Cs more than creeps on average. That's not the problem, what is though is how both share the same statistics in game. Switching to gold accumulated would normalize the information and is more relevant to game objectives.

11 Comments

SexyTaylorSwiftJan 4, 20152 votes

I think they are good measures.

NicktoonsJan 4, 20152 votes

Nope, because CS helps you level up and KDA should alarm players that they need to start playing safe. If i've died more than 3 times at a certain point i will nstart to play safe and I compare my level to the person with the highest level on either team and decide whether i should farm more minions or not.

And if CS is being for discrimination against a jungler then that person has no idea what they're blathering about.

StrzygaJan 4, 20151 votes

That would be a bad idea as if they implemented that the teams could see who has the gold lead and use that to their advantage "Our adc has 2k more gold than their adc therefore it is a good time to teamfight as we will win from the extra damage output"

rtbf22147970Jan 4, 20151 votes

Gold doesn't yield damage, items do. You can currently see who has an item advantage on live as well as Cs lead and KDA. But the value of each Cs and each kill changes depending on parameters. You know to team fight if your adc is 10/1 and up 45 Cs right? I don't see how that's a better metric than 1.5k gold, for example.

Long Dong WukongJan 4, 20151 votes

....uh... there's a different expected CS for lanes and Junglers first of all. The laners are going to have more than Junglers. This is common sense.

Also, KDA means a lot more than just KD means. If your KDA is trash for the match and under 2.5, you were heavy. Period.

Sounds like a Silver that got frustrated at some one telling him to get better to me.

rtbf22147970Jan 4, 20152 votes

Although I don't typically respond to trolls I'll bite. Trades are determined by stats, earned primarily via items. Items are gained through gold. K/D/A is toxic because everyone chases kills to boost their "score" when in retrospect they should be more concerned with income. Why supply Cs, kills, and assists statistics when they all provide the same thing; gold. And not provide that clearly more important stat.

biomasterJan 4, 20151 votes

I think what everyone here is missing is that he isnt saying this cs and kda arent clear period he is saying they arent as clear as showing flat gold income.

Long Dong WukongJan 4, 20152 votes

And I disagree because gold income tells you absolutely nothing about where you messed up. It tells you only that you messed up.

You have to see that you farmed like trash or died too much or weren't involved in enough fights to actually be able to have information to use for improvement.

Gold Income is directly tethered to your performance ingame, so you should probably, you know, check your actual performance.

If I see that I made less 25% less gold than their lowest player, I need to know why. Only knowing that I made 25% less is useless.

OP either doesn't understand the information and how to apply it or thinks that his team is always keeping him down and playing like shit because they're focused on KDA.

biomasterJan 4, 20152 votes

true altough the addition of gold earned in the tab veiw along with cs and kda would be great, just more convenient then having to check match history every time, and this is probably a mute point to you since you seem to believe anyone below gold shouldn't be saying anything (even though they make up the majority of the player base) it would probably drive home the importance of last hitting, a concept that new players struggle with

BTW theres a difference between "your wrong, here's why" and "your wrong you piece of @#$%, your such a @#$%! here's why, now go kill yourself." you don't have to be so needlessly agressive and rude about the whole thing.

Long Dong WukongJan 4, 20151 votes

"your wrong you piece of @#$%, your such a @#$%! here's why, now go kill yourself."

Didn't say that, I just don't play sugar coating baby games when some one's bitching about something they don't understand and then keeps calling what they don't even understand "toxic". There's a difference between asking for a Gold Income tab and trying to say that useful statistics aren't useful, too. Which only implies that he doesn't understand why they're useful, so I explained why exactly they're useful.

Also, catering to low MMR players is the fastest way on the planet to wreck your own game. DotA doesn't even listen to anything but Challenger equivalent players. It's like listening to a Junior Varsity Football player trying to make plans for how the team's going to play this season. They don't understand the game well enough to even be worth listening to. Just so you understand, Plat isn't even worth listening to at the end of the day. D1/Master/Challenger is the only thing that has a legitimate voice on balance.

Everything else can be attributed to the champions not being played to their potential.

Also, Riot doesn't deal well with lots of complaining, so they actually do listen to the bottom 80%. Low elo players got Darius and a few others nerfed, high elo prevented Lee Sin from getting nerfed, low elo got Yasuo superbuffed and then high elo got him nerfed, etc. etc. etc.

Long Dong WukongJan 4, 20153 votes

I don't give a shit about people chasing in Bronze or Silver because they want to inflate their baby bear stats.

If your CS as some one who is supposed to be farming is shit and your KDA is shit then you played like shit. It doesn't matter if you think it makes scrubs do stupid shit. They're scrubs because they're bad to begin with.

CS and KDA directly translates to gold income. If your CS is shit you have no gold, if your KDA is shit you've either not been helping(thus giving you no gold) or you've died too much(thus being dead when you should be getting gold). Gold income doesn't relay how good or bad you're doing at something.

So I'm mid and my gold income is 4k less than their mid's gold income. Why? And this is where you look at your CS and KDA to determine where you fucked up. Gold income by itself means nothing.

Fuck Riot raping the word toxic, by the way.

tl;dr The fact that trash players focus on a stat that makes them feel good doesn't matter, the stat is still useful information to people that know what it means.