What kind of CC are you even measuring, Riot?!?!

Glory ln Death·Jun 15, 2017·11 votes·2,557 views

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In what world does Garen have a higher CC score than Sion and Thresh? He had no slowing items at all, and I very much doubt he had Red Buff for any significant amount of time. There's no way he was silencing the enemy for that much time, either.

Are you counting armor shred as CC?!?! Because that's the only way I can believe that score, between his spinning shred and Black Cleaver's shred. And, if that is the case, that seems a bit... odd to include in the measurement...

35 Comments

Sir YamazukiJun 15, 201721 votes

His Q is a silence and probably counts.

Glory ln DeathJun 15, 20173 votes

There's no way he was silencing people for longer than Sion and Thresh were CC'ing folks, especially since his silence is single target.

Mysticman89Jun 15, 20175 votes

I dunno, he's likely dropping at least 1 q in every trade in lane, and generally starts most fights with it throughout the game (and for the most part they can't even be dodged). Sion and thresh CC have somewhat longer cooldowns so will be using their cc moves a bit more sparingly, and are also all dodgable.

It seems to me that it may be a quantity over quality thing at work there.

Sir YamazukiJun 15, 201717 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3XdF8K2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-15T02:44:15.532+0000)

There's no way he was silencing people for longer than Sion and Thresh were CC'ing folks, especially since his silence is single target.

Sion jungled while Garen laned against a melee... He could've silenced basically off cool down against his opponent for most of lane phase. The silence also has a decent duration and against a melee target next to him it hits 100% of the time due to it being applied on an auto attack... This is why I don't pay much attention to damage dealt, and etc stats. Tanks have their stats inflated when they lane due to back and forths in lane.

DurzakaJun 15, 20171 votes

^^ This guy has the answer.

If that had been a lane Sion, MAYBE he would have matched the CC (even then though, slow probably gives less contribution towards the score than Silence, and he isnt gonna always get the knock up).

But a lane Garen is gonna have a ton of silences getting pulled off.

Supreme Senpai69Jun 15, 20171 votes

Plus it's not like Thresh hooks somebody everytime it's off CD

MhihnjJun 15, 20171 votes

thresh's E got a way shorter cd and don't forget his ult.

NAY WrecksauceJun 15, 20171 votes

might just be because garen kept giving people a grey screen

Irelia BotJun 15, 201715 votes

Hey now

Pushing the world up likely causes earthquakes which results in CC.

Sir FuzziJun 15, 20172 votes

I saw Yorick proc CotC the other day, what's up with that? He doesn't have anything to proc it, does he?

Meanwhile, if shreds are CC it sort of makes sense; it's enabling allies to do additional damage. Even if it's not being done. It's kind of controlly... you might zone someone by shredding their armor so they can't tank...

ArakadiaJun 15, 201712 votes

Yorick W can proc CotC.

Sir FuzziJun 15, 20171 votes

Really? That seems... odd.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 15, 20173 votes

He needs to actually hit someone with the wall tho, not just capture someone

DragonSheaJun 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yorick W can proc CotC.

True. I tested it.

ArakadiaJun 15, 20172 votes

Looks like Garen was pretty fed, so their going with death as the best CC.

MarshbouyJun 15, 20172 votes

Since Garen's Q is CC, that garen probably only had to have Q'ed about 30 times which isn't that hard for a garen.

Tundra HunterJun 15, 20172 votes

This highlights the facts that it is hard to quantify CC.

What they currently give is duration of any CC, I think, wether it is silence/slow/root/stun/suppress/know-up, etc.

We all know that different CC are not equal. Maybe next-step could be to distinguish hard-CC? (stun/suppress/know-up, at least) from the rest.

Glory ln DeathJun 15, 20173 votes

I think they already do that. When they were discussing it before the planned intro date (around midseason), they mentioned something about slows and soft CC being worth less than hard CC.

Tundra HunterJun 15, 20171 votes

Thanks for the info! Well then, to me, silence shouldn't be worth a lot.

SteelflameJun 15, 20172 votes

Silence is a weird CC because it's a soft/hard mix. Hard CC is generally classified as anything which denies movement AND spellcasting. Silence, while not denying movement directly, wrecks spellcasting, and tends to be among the longest duration CCs in the game to boot with only a few slows outdoing it other than very conditional stuns like a halfway across the map Ashe ulti.

Tundra HunterJun 16, 20171 votes

Yeah, good point. What about roots? It denies movement but not spells.

Yesterday I played Soraka ADC in aram, and had the best CC score (58, more than blitz, sona, brand or shen) I did land many AOE roots, but still was surprised by having the best CC score as Soraka

KrittyJun 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3XdF8K2,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-16T03:16:20.115+0000)

Yeah, good point. What about roots? It denies movement but not spells.

Yesterday I played Soraka ADC in aram, and had the best CC score (58, more than blitz, sona, brand or shen) I did land many AOE roots, but still was surprised by having the best CC score as Soraka

Any time you hit your Q, you get CC score. If you land it on multiple targets, that just increases the amount you would get. Don't forget that her Q is a really nice slow!

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3XdF8K2,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-06-15T12:39:27.694+0000)

Red Buff, Blade of the Ruined King's active slow, I dunno.

Probably more the BotRK slow - it would have been used in basically every fight, so even with a low CC value, he'd get some good out of it.

TranozeJun 15, 20172 votes

The question is how can Ezreal have 11 secs of CCs

Glory ln DeathJun 15, 20171 votes

Red Buff, Blade of the Ruined King's active slow, I dunno.

KrittyJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F3XdF8K2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-15T02:36:59.874+0000)

https://i.imgflip.com/1qww6w.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/1qwwd7.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/1qwweb.jpg

In what world does Garen have a higher CC score than Sion and Thresh? He had no slowing items at all, and I very much doubt he had Red Buff for any significant amount of time. There's no way he was silencing the enemy for that much time, either.

Are you counting armor shred as CC?!?! Because that's the only way I can believe that score, between his spinning shred and Black Cleaver's shred. And, if that is the case, that seems a bit... odd to include in the measurement...

His silence is a form of soft crowd control, as it prevents the player from using their abilities.

It also has a relatively short cooldown, making it very easy for him to have used it that much.

flibitydooJun 15, 20171 votes

don't forget that garen is as a whole a manaless champion so spamming his q off cooldown is perfectly fine playstyle-wise

SlythionJun 15, 20171 votes

What if Garen built item 3116 :3

Mysticman89Jun 15, 20171 votes

I actually dug up the game to check for a more likely item 3025 or item 3022 , but it was a pretty conventional garen build without any cc inducing items.