It takes 10x more skill to play AGAINST Fiora than it takes to play AS Fiora

TheThundersRoar·Mar 22, 2016·187 votes·12,537 views

Skill requirement of playing as Fiora:

Point to the side with a vital, press Q.
If you see shit coming, press W.
Right click the dude.

Skill requirement of playing against Fiora:

Position perfectly so you can farm while keeping the vital side away.
Keep up a near-instant reaction time to move the vital away when she dashes.
Know when to simply stand back and give up farm when the vital side is facing her.
Know when to hold your CC and wait for her W.
Be able to bait out her W.
Be able to turn on her and cast CC before she can W.
Know when she is going to W to slow and dodge it.
Be able to kite and lead the fight out of her activated R.
Watch her Q cooldown so you can cast your skillshots.

#And that's on top of the skill it takes to play your own champ.

How is this fair?

157 Comments

LevikMar 22, 201623 votes

I feel like there should be some punishment for losing the Grand Challenge. That way it can't just be thrown out there for zoning/tower sieging and there is counterplay in a 5v5 teamfight.

invisiblecat1Mar 23, 20163 votes

OOOO maybe make it cost hp equal to the amount that is healed after hitting 4 Vitals so she doesn't really get anything out of it if she does not hit all 4, and is punished if she uses it to poke

KetiMar 23, 20162 votes

I dunno QSS already gimps her pretty severely

Devack The HolyMar 23, 20168 votes

Yes, but why would you build an MR item to deal with an AD champ? You're literally wasting gold only to get an active, since you don't get anything else from it.

KetiMar 23, 20162 votes

because it literally takes her ultimate away.

nfzetaMar 24, 20164 votes

still wouldn't make any sense on champions she usually goes up against because its top lane and hardly any top laners are going to be using scimitar so qss would be a HUGE waste of money that could be spent on more relevant tanky dmg stat items.

Naag OneMar 23, 201612 votes

if she can't secure kill with grand challenge, she should be so ashamed of her failure that she'll perform Harakiri, and give 1000 gold to enemy champion

GreenBoÍMar 22, 201620 votes

Soo old Fiora was bad everyone was raging cuz shes noob champ, no skill, tard ulti, and then when Riot announced Fiora rework. Everyone were soo mad and said its trashy and she will be usseles. Now everyone are like raging and crying of how op is my Fiora. SRSLY people what do you want? Everything what Riot is giving to you is always bad for you, no matter what. You dont like that, then that is op then that needs nerf, etc... Please take what you get and stop crying... Cuz realy you get what you ask. Do you want Fiora be usseles again as she was before? Give her some place to be and stop raging ^^! Fiora Fiora Fiora Fiora Fiora

Dasdi96Mar 22, 201618 votes

{quoted}

Soo old Fiora was bad everyone was raging cuz shes noob champ, no skill, tard ulti, and then when Riot announced Fiora rework. Everyone were soo mad and said its trashy and she will be usseles. Now everyone are like raging and crying of how op is my Fiora. SRSLY people what do you want? Everything what Riot is giving to you is always bad for you, no matter what. You dont like that, then that is op then that needs nerf, etc... Please take what you get and stop crying... Cuz realy you get what you ask. Do you want Fiora be usseles again as she was before? Give her some place to be and stop raging ^^!

I would rather her be completely useless than be completely unfair to play against espicially for newer players.

GreenBoÍMar 22, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I would rather her be completely useless than be completely unfair to play against espicially for newer players.

Well by your logic it should be like that "Every champ that is op must be nerfed to be useless to make this game "Fun""! You are lucky that she is geting a nerf :/... And i dont understand how fiora is unfair at 1-15 lvls, when most of the players suck as her... doing a lot of mistakes.

OpistachMar 22, 20167 votes

Fiora herself isn't the biggest problem. It is the Fiora's that build full tank and can duel anybody while being almost impossible to kill. They are the problem.

UnderscorBunniesMar 22, 20165 votes

Well, she's a duelist. Ignoring the fact that her true damage scales with how much bonus AD she has, and if she were to build full tank, her damage would be greatly slashed, DON'T DUEL HER. I'm sure you'd treat a full-tank+rageblade Jax the same way.

Xela SyabMar 22, 20162 votes

top lane is a dueling lane, you're never gonna see a xerath or jihn top just poking each other from the otherside of the river.

UnderscorBunniesMar 23, 20163 votes

Yes, so when, for example, a Riven gets ahead, I'm assuming that you should still trade with her because top lane is a dueling lane?

Serika ZeroMar 23, 20164 votes

i'm quite sure that for most players its: assume fetal position and cry

Forn ala cremeMar 22, 20169 votes

Did you read the patch notes for 6.6 then?

OpistachMar 22, 20167 votes

I did, but it won't make up for the trauma of the past months dealing with her.

HoodwinkMar 22, 201611 votes

That's like saying you can put a murderer away, but it won't make up for the devastation he caused to the families of his victims.

It's not meant to, it's meant to make sure that the same issue doesn't arise again.

OpistachMar 22, 20164 votes

Ohh I know, but it will.

ZackeryssMar 23, 20166 votes

Her AD scaling went up you know... I'm scared... Dear Taric please release soon so I can pubstomp the baguette noob and spam Outrageous in all chat at fiora mains.

KeevalroyMar 23, 20163 votes

I'm still traumatized by Nidalee's nuclear-tipped tree trunks years later.

Dunkrius2gMar 22, 20165 votes

Only problem with her was mainly her ult. This one is every single shit in her kit. I'd honestly have old fiora with some nerfs to her ult than this fiora right now

GreenBoÍMar 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Only problem with her was mainly her ult. This one is every single shit in her kit. I'd honestly have old fiora with some nerfs to her ult than this fiora right now

And how do you expect thoes old fiora nerfs on ults? if she was nothing without her ult?

Dunkrius2gMar 22, 20163 votes

Last nerfs i remember is that Riot made its damage stronger for one target but less for multiple targets. If Riot can do something about it, i would fight that fiora any day than the one we have right now.

If she is nothing without her ult, then Riot needs to balance that out. Giving free true damage, heals, aoe heals, attack speed reduction and so much more to balance out a toxic ult just seems stupid.

Before, her passive was jack shit. I agree with that. Her Q was okay and atleast you can stick on to a target for a little while. Her Riposte was balanced. Period. Her Ult is what made Old FIora Old Fiora.

Now we have a very strong passive, which is neat but bs at the same time. This filled up the gaps of her old X per 5 sustain and the damage from her old Ripoiste

Her Q is a free escape. It sucks tho, but atleast the cd is high if she manages to hit nothing. But if she is fighitng you and she lands a Q, her rapier is gonna be shoved down until you are dead (assuming it's just you and her).

Her Riposte is heavily filled with bs. She deals damage. Stuns if she was gonna get stunned, attack speed reduction, slow, and takes no damage at all. Before it was just one basic attack. For Riot to balance out this riposte, she doesn't gain any AD. 40 to 50 AD (im not too sure on the exact numbers) vs all of these things above. The AD is replaced with her % health true damage so consider that extra. I would love that Fiora could just riposte one ability, but I think she got the Award of #LC$BIGPLAY$ and is in the Hall of Fame with LeeSin and Thresh

Her E is fine. Its just something she took from Darius same for her Riposte. Her E before was pretty strong. THats what actually made her the Grand Duelist. Burst of attack speed. Now we have auto attack reset with a stronger 2nd hit, which is basically a free crit at lv 5. A good trade off compared to the other abilities.

Ult is pretty ridiculous. Can only be countered through item 3053 and item 3140 . Old Ult, you gotta take the damage. Trade off is that she gets a butt load amount of heal before and deals a lot of AoE damage, Now she gives AoE Heal. AoE heal is far worse than AoE damage because you can exhaust that damage. You cant exhaust true damage and you have Janna 's ult on crack

On paper, anyone would say that Riot overtuned her. Does she need more nerfs? I don't think so right now. We will just have to wait, but she is my top ban for bs.

I might've missed some "vital" information, but this is what I see right now compared to old fiora and the current one.

KhâmulMar 22, 201619 votes

10 x 0 = 0 huehuehuehuehue More seriously,I don't care about the skill needed (in the end,it's easy to reach the mecanical cap for champions,even if some are more difficult) I have nothing against fiora/master yii have high damages while building DAMAGES..Riot forgot that last part

yoniameMar 23, 20162 votes

I wouldn't have problem with Fizz MasterYi Zed if that fucking retarded intargetability would be deleted already.

AuryielMar 22, 201614 votes

Skill requirement of playing as Azir

Press W
Use your Q to poke them from range
Basic attack
Use your R and E when appropriate

Clearly, Azir is a broken champion any noob can easily pick up

3TWarriorMar 23, 20161 votes

it's not that hard to figure out that fiora can use her dash to hit a vital on one side and then dash again to hit another and if she hit one initially, she'll have done a large percentage of your hp just by the true damage alone...and her physical damage will kill you

if you are actually tanky enough to withstand her barrage (as most top laners should be but her damage is fairly high), she will instantly heal as will any team member in its radius

AuryielMar 23, 201614 votes

This isn't so much about Fiora as it is about blatant over exaggeration being passed as actual intelligent feedback

Fiora's overtuned at the moment

Azir was overtuned, once. Doesn't mean he's not hella hard to play correctly. Ryze was overtuned not so long ago and yet was still considered one of the most demanding champions to play.

This is like those stupid threads about Riven saying she takes no skill to play when in fact she's one of the champions with the highest skill ceiling in the game.

QjTHqo3RTqMar 23, 20162 votes

Azir was never overtuned, he just did really well in the meta, but since we're seeing more assassins and pick or ban zed because how easy it is to do with him now, coupled with his nerfs, dude is struggling, hard.

MhihnjMar 23, 20164 votes

you forgot the skill that makes him hard:

-dealing with bugs

Slamurai JackMar 22, 201611 votes

I wonder how many people who upvoted this have never even played new Fiora.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 23, 20166 votes

Oh no, the champ is face roll easy. They just wont play her because they have morals /s

Slamurai JackMar 23, 20168 votes

It's probably the same people that won't play Lee because they just want to give their opponents a chance, ya know? So many saints in this community.

Cloak an DaggerMar 22, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Skill requirement of playing as Fiora:

Point to the side with a vital, press Q.

If you see shit coming, press W.

Right click the dude.

Skill requirement of playing against Fiora:

Position perfectly so you can farm while keeping the vital side away.

Keep up a near-instant reaction time to move the vital away when she dashes.

Know when to simply stand back and give up farm when the vital side is facing her.

Know when to hold your CC and wait for her W.

Be able to bait out her W.

Be able to turn on her and cast CC before she can W.

Know when she is going to W to slow and dodge it.

Be able to kite and lead the fight out of her activated R.

Watch her Q cooldown so you can cast your skillshots then.

#And that's on top of the skill it takes to play your own champ.

How is this fair?

She's finally getting some nerfs but her kit is just oppressive in the way it's designed. It probably won't do as much as it's intended. If you have to play against a mini-game while playing against a champion that should be a warning sign that it is not a very fun, fair, or interactive experience. If I could compare Fiora with a hearthstone class (speaking as a multi-season legend player) I find her very similar to secret paladin.

low skill cap + low skill ceiling is just a recipe for disaster.

Weiner the PoohMar 22, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloak an Dagger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EtAgG6Pf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-22T17:49:37.587+0000)

She's finally getting some nerfs but her kit is just oppressive in the way it's designed. It probably won't do as much as it's intended. If you have to play against a mini-game while playing against a champion that should be a warning sign that it is not a very fun, fair, or interactive experience. If I could compare Fiora with a hearthstone class (speaking as a multi-season legend player) I find her very similar to secret paladin.

low skill cap + low skill ceiling is just a recipe for disaster.

Fiora is low skill cap + low skill ceiling? Really? Just because you don't like the champ doesn't mean that she's super easy Like you say. If she is really so easy why is it Fiora post rework was considered one of the hardest champs in the game? After people started learning her then people complained, but it took so long for her to be figured out. If she's so easy why is her win rate with inexperienced players so low? It goes up with games playe but it's pretty low for people starting out. And watch, after this patch, with her inability to be a tanky carry people inexperienced with her are gonna have an even lower win rate wit her, and probaly those considered experienced wit her too, the nerfs to her passive and titanic mean no more tank Fiora which is like everyone's core build.

ÁCTION IS COMINGMar 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Pumpkin Kinq,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EtAgG6Pf,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-03-22T19:13:31.175+0000)

Fiora is low skill cap + low skill ceiling? Really? Just because you don't like the champ doesn't mean that she's super easy Like you say. If she is really so easy why is it Fiora post rework was considered one of the hardest champs in the game? After people started learning her then people complained, but it took so long for her to be figured out. If she's so easy why is her win rate with inexperienced players so low? It goes up with games playe but it's pretty low for people starting out. And watch, after this patch, with her inability to be a tanky carry people inexperienced with her are gonna have an even lower win rate wit her, and probaly those considered experienced wit her too, the nerfs to her passive and titanic mean no more tank Fiora which is like everyone's core build.

"One of the hardest champs in the game" Because walking around and spamming q on people is hard.

Weiner the PoohMar 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

"One of the hardest champs in the game" Because walking around and spamming q on people is hard.

Because thats totally all there is to it. Just like all Azir is W and auto attack? When you dumb it down of course it seems simple and brain dead even if its not.

AlwaysByMySideMar 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

"One of the hardest champs in the game" Because walking around and spamming q on people is hard.

That would slightly more accurately (but not entirely) describe Garen or Nasus, who you have played.

It does not describe Fiora. If it was so easy to win with her, you'd be spamming her in ranked.

No, you're just bad at playing against her.

FreshiMar 22, 20166 votes

It takes 10x more skill to play as Bard than to play against Bard

PentaJukeMar 22, 20165 votes

True

PennsMar 22, 20165 votes

You should be happy that youre not playing Blade and Soul

scummoner :^(

NekusenMar 22, 20165 votes

DrMundo Blitzcrank Garen Annie Darius MasterYi Nasus Quinn Riven Udyr XinZhao Jax

3TWarriorMar 23, 20162 votes

mundo has been fine for years and only became powerful with the influx of AD champion comps (2 in the lcs/lck for instance) and his recent "buff" to his E, which they nerfed some to compensate

blitzcrank needs to be looked at...early game he is a monster...late game he is a monster...he's a true juggernaut...and yet, he's 50/50 where he either wins or loses by who he manages to hook

brand has been fine for years...all he has is his damage and they nerfed DFT

garen is a bit too tanky early levels atm but idk

annie...she's strong...but...seriously? if she doesn't have a good team with her to follow her engage, she's not going to 1v5

darius...most people have learned to just run from him at this point

master yi: he needs his potential for tank items to be reduced...

nasus...he has his issues and becomes babysit the nasus, but ranged champs or champs that like it when you get close and don't rely on AA's can deal with him and you can engage him early to deny his farm

quinn: i'm neallly not sure about this one

riven: i've only seen on ein aram recently

udyr: he's tanky, sure, but if you can outlast him, he'll go down with his damage at a minimum (devourer hurts in normal play unfortunately)

xin...no idea

jax: his numbers seem like they "buff" him to exactly the same thing each year XD but jungling jax has pretty slow clear times. He has reliable clears come level 6, but he's still slow