You literally get punished for winning jungle because the enemy jungler who is inting will out level you due to cathcup xp it's ridiculous. A 5/1/3 kha'zix with 150 cs shouldn't be a level down to a 0/5/1 sejuani with 43 cs like it makes absolutely no sense (this is a completely random champion selection btw)
Dragfin17 votes[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EoXodjy3,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-26T19:27:18.852+0000)
You literally get punished for winning jungle because the enemy jungler who is inting will out level you due to cathcup xp it's ridiculous. A 5/1/3 kha'zix with 150 cs shouldn't be a level down to a 0/5/1 sejuani with 43 cs like it makes absolutely no sense (this is a completely random champion selection btw)
Because RIOT wants all sorts of trash players playing their game so they can make more money. The casual player would not spend money on this game if they actually had to learn to play the game the right way. RIOT has done nothing but put a black mark on the definition of competition except where the pros are concerned. They need these casual trash players to open their wallets and RIOT will continue to allow them to ruin games with no repercussions. We have to deal with it if we want to play the game.
RainXBlade1 votesI remember when league used to take skill and that every champ was usable. Nowadays its either pick something that can brainlessly stack shields on the ADC or pick someone who can one-shot people with a push of a button.
Ifneth12 votesSeveral reasons.
To prevent League of Jungle. If the XP lead in the jungle gets too large, then the ahead jungler can just camp in the enemy jungle, take all the camps and buffs, and solo-kill the enemy jungler if he ever comes in. Meanwhile, he can take or donate his own camps and the jungle objectives, putting himself and his team at a massive advantage. The whole game would revolve around enabling an early game jungler, as it did during early Season 7.
To enable comebacks. I mean this literally. If your connection drops, but you come back, then you should be able to rejoin the game. The same goes for rejoining the game after losing lots of experience to a freeze. Otherwise, you would just be permanently behind or permanently ahead, making the sidelanes all about freezing your opponent, making them useless, and then winning the 5v4 or 5v3 while they watched.
To keep everyone playing and reduce botlane dominance. If top freezes, but bot gets frozen, you auto-lose the 3v4, and versa. This isn’t fun for anyone except the people doing the freezing, since everyone else gets a free win or an inevitable loss, and those who got frozen on have to stay for a game where they can’t even do anything.
Hence, catch-up XP!
T4underbolt1 votesLiterally all you said is wrong. What catch up XP does is screwing up all other lanes but bot lane and making it impossible to solo carry. This mechanic makes it even less likely you can comeback. Why?because you might have won your lane. Top too. But that's not enough yet to destroy enemy fed bot lane. So while enemy bot lane easily carries team their top and mid catch up really fast and all your effort to get a lead and render enemy laner useless was for nothing.why try and win the lane if your team can carry you. This is the mentality that is nowadays met a lot and causes people not caring at all in ranked games.
Ifneth5 votesCatch-up XP doesn’t make it impossible to solo carry, since having one champion very far ahead in levels won’t shift the team average much. It does make it impossible to win the early game, freeze the enemy team out, and then waffle-stomp with a four or five level advantage.
HalcyonDweller2 votesLiterally all you said is wrong. What catch up XP does is screwing up all other lanes but bot lane and making it impossible to solo carry. This mechanic makes it even less likely you can comeback. Why?because you might have won your lane. Top too. But that's not enough yet to destroy enemy fed bot lane. So while enemy bot lane easily carries team their top and mid catch up really fast and all your effort to get a lead and render enemy laner useless was for nothing.why try and win the lane if your team can carry you. This is the mentality that is nowadays met a lot and causes people not caring at all in ranked games.
Dude we talked about this before. You have to help your team snowball too, getting all fed and ahead is fine and dandy, but it's not going to win games for you unless you actually do something with that advantage and grow it into a larger advantage. Once you are fed enough to be making an impact, go make an impact in other teammates' lanes or in the jungle, to help get another one of your teammates ahead, that way wen everyone groups up for teamfights your team will have two fed people instead of just one.
T4underbolt1 votesWell and I probably already answer on this too. When I get fed and have a lane advantage over my opponent (e.g.3/0 and having more farm), my teammates have amazing scores of 0/4 top and total of 0/8 bot. My jungler is Lee sin that thinks he is a hyper carry farming simulator. Where am I suppose to spread that lead if before I even get to play my laning phase it is basically over. I spread my lead when my team is at least decent. I don't ask for ultra good teams. Just decent people who won't feed. Yet I can't even ask for this. I can easily compare teams I'm getting now with teams I was getting even 2 seasons ago. There is huge difference. Having a one guy who knows nothing about a game completely was happening once per 100 games. Even with dynq being dumb sht I could still carry. Now it's impossible.
HalcyonDweller2 votesYou press your advantage by creating pressure so that your teammates have the breathing-room necessary to catch up. By applying enough pressure in your own lane to require the enemy team to rotate to deal with you. You tell them how to catch up, for example "ward here and here (pings) and split push, if any enemies show on those wards run like hell."
Or you can roam to a lane, gank or cover for them, and have them lane swap with you so they can play against the opponent you already put behind while you deal with their opponent they can't deal with.
There are a lot of ways to deal with it after the fact. But it's way better to catch things as they're happening or before they happen. Simply complaining about things after a teammate has already fed is pointless. If a teammate is struggling then you need to use effective methods of communication and leadership to un-tilt them and set them on the right path before they die 4+ times.
Before you pull the "woe is me I'm getting stuck with degenerates" bear in mind that you were matched with them because your MMRs are similar. That means that your skill levels are similar too, they may just be playing against a better opponent (like a smurf) or they could just be having a bad game.
T4underbolt1 votesI wonder how can you live with yourself being such huge fanboy that you defend a sht matchmaking system that is obviously not working as intended nor how is riot describing its way of working.
Let's say enemy is rotating to mid to stop me cause I pressure that lane.I destroyed enemy laner but my bot lane is 0/10 in total. Now to my lane comes fed ADC and a support. I play 1v3. Even if you're faker there is no way to successfully defend even if you're ahead. Unless I would be 20/0 as yasuo with 3 items advantage over enemy. And tell me how do you even believe they will listen to me? 90% of the time I will hear "I know how to play, stop being toxic, reported". Yes that's if I tell them to ward and push while I try to defend 1v3 or possibly lane swap but that ends in enemy bot lane going mid too and I need to help them anyway.
Don't insult me, telling me those monkeys have equal skill to mine. It's not just a bad game. Every time I'm on a lose streak my team is bunch of people on huge lose streaks with stats so bad that even intermediate bots would have better stats. And I'm not even mentioning those games with inters and toxic players. That another fine addition that likes to prolong lose streaks or break win streaks. I haven't had a decent match for long time now. It's like 1 fair match per month. 1 match per month where both teams are equally skilled and it comes down to that best player in each team to do the better job at carrying.if I screw up I know what I did wrong and that's why I lost. Unfortunately that ewual games happen so rarely that I can as well go troll and wait for my team to carry, because if they werent capable of doing so I lost anyway with my winning the lane doing no difference.
HalcyonDweller2 votesyou defend a sht matchmaking system that is obviously not working as intended nor how is riot describing its way of working.
I don't defend matchmaking blindly, I've advocated for numerous changes to it. Here I'm specifically speaking out against how you treat your fellow players. They're human too, the same as you. They have family, school / jobs, dreams and aspirations. Don't be so quick to treat them like subhuman garbage, especially over something as insignificant as a video game.
Let's say enemy is rotating to mid to stop me cause I pressure that lane.I destroyed enemy laner but my bot lane is 0/10 in total. Now to my lane comes fed ADC and a support. I play 1v3. Even if you're faker there is no way to successfully defend even if you're ahead. Unless I would be 20/0 as yasuo with 3 items advantage over enemy. And tell me how do you even believe they will listen to me? 90% of the time I will hear "I know how to play, stop being toxic, reported". Yes that's if I tell them to ward and push while I try to defend 1v3 or possibly lane swap but that ends in enemy bot lane going mid too and I need to help them anyway.
That's a separate problem. If one of your lanes is 0/10 then you've already failed at being a good leader. Carrying games takes more than mechanical skill, it also takes communication and leadership skills necessary to get people to want to listen to you and follow your suggestions. Start by not referring to them as feeders and "monkeys."
Don't insult me, telling me those monkeys have equal skill to mine. It's not just a bad game. Every time I'm on a lose streak my team is bunch of people on huge lose streaks with stats so bad that even intermediate bots would have better stats. And I'm not even mentioning those games with inters and toxic players. That another fine addition that likes to prolong lose streaks or break win streaks. I haven't had a decent match for long time now. It's like 1 fair match per month. 1 match per month where both teams are equally skilled and it comes down to that best player in each team to do the better job at carrying.if I screw up I know what I did wrong and that's why I lost. Unfortunately that ewual games happen so rarely that I can as well go troll and wait for my team to carry, because if they werent capable of doing so I lost anyway with my winning the lane doing no difference.
It's important to consider intent when you are sorting something that has been said into either the statement box or the insult box. I've been struggling with this myself as well, so I understand given our history that you would think I was insulting you. In no way did I intend that as an insult when I said it. It's just a fact. The system matches people together who have similar MMR. If you don't think those people deserve the same MMR as you then start a discussion about how to fix the MMR / ranking system. Don't get pissy with me for pointing out how the system works.
T4underbolt1 votesHow did I fail to be a good leader. You want me to roam as e.g. kassadin lvl 4? What do I accomplished by this outside of losing 2 waves. I tell my bot to ward. Hell I even ward enemy jungle and let them know both in chat and by pings that enemy jungler is coming but they refuse to listen. It's like 1 out of 10 games when my team actually listens to me and avoids a danger I've seen. I have no influence.they will do whatever they want.
HalcyonDweller1 votesAlright maybe "good" leader was pushing it, because those kinds of things are exactly what good leaders do. But "great" leaders find ways to talk to teammates that keep them motivated and cooperative, keeping them focused on what needs to be done, so that they can do it and prevent dying in the future.
As for using pings to get people to listen: I make use of my minimap to spot incoming ganks for my allies, and then I go to that lane with my screen and ping danger on my ally's character then another danger ping in the direction the jungler will be coming from.
And as for using chat, it takes building up respect before things turn bad. If you're waiting to talk to people until you're already pissed that they made a stupid mistake then you're waiting too long. It's important to compliment things like saying, "good trade," or "nice escape" when something happens and they survive. Even simple things like asking how the lane is going before anything bad has happened. I do this regularly as a jungler, and you might be shocked at how positively my laners respond to seeing me show interest and support for them in their situation.
It's important to talk about what to do next time without throwing their ego under the bus (because lets be honest, once people think they are being blamed for things going wrong they stop listening and don't care what we have to say even if we have awesome suggestions for what to do next time).
Talking about the future and coordinating roams helps a bunch too, even if you don't end up making a play when you do roam. It's more about getting them to coordinate and cooperate as a team rather than about actually saving their lane if they have already started feeding.
T4underbolt1 votesLol. Are you seriously teaching me how to ping?do you think i didn't try to lock my team's ass repeatedly to make them feel confident and sht and give them advices? Just because you have luck and get normal teams doesn't mean others get them too. If you played the last 30 games with same people I did you would quit lol. It's like saying where is the famine you talk about, I'm all fine eating everyday. Seriously. Great that you don't get monkeys in team every game but unfortunately not everyone are so lucky.
HalcyonDweller1 votesYou glossed over the majority of the comment and responded to the part you were most angry about again. Please read this again, my response to your above comment will follow afterwards.
"It's important to talk about what to do next time without throwing their ego under the bus (because lets be honest, once people think they are being blamed for things going wrong they stop listening and don't care what we have to say even if we have awesome suggestions for what to do next time)."
"Talking about the future and coordinating roams helps a bunch too, even if you don't end up making a play when you do roam. It's more about getting them to coordinate and cooperate as a team rather than about actually saving their lane if they have already started feeding."
Lol. Are you seriously teaching me how to ping?do you think i didn't try to lock my team's ass repeatedly to make them feel confident and sht and give them advices? Just because you have luck and get normal teams doesn't mean others get them too. If you played the last 30 games with same people I did you would quit lol. It's like saying where is the famine you talk about, I'm all fine eating everyday. Seriously. Great that you don't get monkeys in team every game but unfortunately not everyone are so lucky.
I think that based on how you talk about things and how you have applied reasoning in the past here on the boards, it is quite possible that you have a tendency to assume something and then apply it to situations which it does not apply to.
It's easy to think your teammates are idiots if you begin from the onset looking for evidence that they are idiots rather than looking at their gameplay as a whole.
Just out of curiosity, how many times have you watched your replays over to watch what was happening in the other lanes?
T4underbolt1 votesI don't phrase my advices in a way that would make a normal person feel like I'm blaming them, but lol player base is in high % made of oversensitive kids who take everything as an insult or a blame. Even if I do something for the sake of team work if they are so bad to die 2v2 bot 10 times in total before 10 minute hits there is no way to talk about their capabilities of team work. They are unable to perform the most basic strategies in the game involving defensive play.
I'm not looking for an evidence my team mates are idiots. They provide me those evidences every single minute. I don't watch replays because I observe in the meantime what is going on in lanes. Especially when I'm getting g back after killing my opponent happy with some advantage I got and seeing my bot trying to engage with 200 hp each into 3/4 hp ADC and half hp support. I think this sht that is happening on daily basis every few minutes is enough to tell they have no idea what are they talking about. And their match history simply proves they are brainless boosted monkeys.
HalcyonDweller1 votesI don't phrase my advices in a way that would make a normal person feel like I'm blaming them, but lol player base is in high % made of oversensitive kids who take everything as an insult or a blame.
I believe you. But like I said before, great leaders can circumvent and negate those problems. It just takes knowing the right tricks.
Even if I do something for the sake of team work if they are so bad to die 2v2 bot 10 times in total before 10 minute hits there is no way to talk about their capabilities of team work. They are unable to perform the most basic strategies in the game involving defensive play.
Like I said before, you have to be talking to them long before they die that much. For example, "If you keep fighting them like that you're going to lose again. Play safe instead, we will come help you out as soon as we can."
I'm not looking for an evidence my team mates are idiots. They provide me those evidences every single minute. I don't watch replays because I observe in the meantime what is going on in lanes. Especially when I'm getting g back after killing my opponent happy with some advantage I got and seeing my bot trying to engage with 200 hp each into 3/4 hp ADC and half hp support. I think this sht that is happening on daily basis every few minutes is enough to tell they have no idea what are they talking about. And their match history simply proves they are brainless boosted monkeys.
Alright I'm not going to argue about whether they are idiots or not. But even if they are idiots, my point stands. If you treat them like idiots then they will notice this and not listen when you try to make good calls later on.
Also, new game, new teammates. They're not the same as past teammates you've had. Don't write them off without first making a great attempt to work with them.
T4underbolt1 votesOkay. You probably also believe that you can convince a lion to eat grass instead of meat. I would gave away all skins I have if I get teammates that can be reasoned with like you get in your games apperantly. Because your experience is totally different than mine. As I said. Very good. Have fun with normal people with brains in the place it should be.
I do write things like "If you keep fighting them like that you're going to lose again. Play safe instead, we will come help you out as soon as we can.". It doesnt matter. they are engaging anyway.
And for the last statement. New game new teammates. Every game new teammates with the same brain damage level as the previous. Even today I had a prove. Just a second ago I literally had to go 23/9 and we barely won this game because apperantly my bot lane likes to either fight and feed and when someone tries to help them they just watch people to die. Thanks god our fizz somehow came back with my help and we managed to do that only because one of the enemies get caught few times giving fizz 2-3 kills. I felt like Im playing in LCS. It was that hard to carry. In no fking world in this sht hell of elo I am now I should be forced to carry so hard to win the game. I deserve to be matched with people who have enough brain to at least not feed (.e.g another bot lane today that went 0/8 in 6 minute). The past 100 games are the same. I probably have like 15% winrate or less because of such players in at least 2 lanes every fking game.
HalcyonDweller1 votesOkay. You probably also believe that you can convince a lion to eat grass instead of meat. I would gave away all skins I have if I get teammates that can be reasoned with like you get in your games apperantly. Because your experience is totally different than mine. As I said. Very good. Have fun with normal people with brains in the place it should be.
[sg-lux-2]
I do write things like "If you keep fighting them like that you're going to lose again. Play safe instead, we will come help you out as soon as we can.". It doesnt matter. they are engaging anyway.
Do you avoid giving them an "I told you so" afterwards? Do you think they might have muted you earlier? Etc. Look for the reasons they aren't listening and fix them. Otherwise ignore them and snowball a different lane.
And for the last statement. New game new teammates. Every game new teammates with the same brain damage level as the previous. Even today I had a prove. Just a second ago I literally had to go 23/9 and we barely won this game because apperantly my bot lane likes to either fight and feed and when someone tries to help them they just watch people to die. Thanks god our fizz somehow came back with my help and we managed to do that only because one of the enemies get caught few times giving fizz 2-3 kills. I felt like Im playing in LCS. It was that hard to carry. In no fking world in this sht hell of elo I am now I should be forced to carry so hard to win the game. I deserve to be matched with people who have enough brain to at least not feed (.e.g another bot lane today that went 0/8 in 6 minute). The past 100 games are the same. I probably have like 15% winrate or less because of such players in at least 2 lanes every fking game.
If you went 23/9 and Fizz was ready to kill enemies then you did the right thing playing around fizz to get him fed. It won't be as hard to carry when you get that far ahead if you work with your strongest teammate to coordinate plays. Even against fed enemies there are ways to out maneuver them, you can win games just by applying smart pressure and trading objectives or split pushing instead of fighting the enemy.
Plus there's the shutdown gold changes coming soon which should help.
Jet Sett8 votesIt was nerfed this season pretty hard, don't know what the problem is unless you're unable to capitalize on both the XP AND gold lead. Not to mention how terrible the jungle role would be without it as most players are content to deal with farming, ganking, and objective control without adding counter jungling and defending the jungle to the list of every game.
BobaFlautist5 votesBecause the jungle keeps getting tougher to clear. Without catchuo xp, a death at the wrong time would shut you completely out of the game.
bywords704 votesi mean at least the kha is well ahead in gold, but catchup exp for junglers is literally the worst thing ever.
promotes literally only ganking because if the enemy only farms jungle while you fail a ton of ganks, you just have to clear a few camps and you will only be like 1 level behind max. makes jungle the most brain dead role ever.
Troll for Trump4 votesThey want to stop snowballing to even the playing field. Remember?
3411235456524 votesTo make sure the adc is always near solo lane level XP. Another hidden buff to bot lane over the years.
Jesus is Savior4 votesbecause in prior seasons you could play (old) Nunu and keep the enemy jungler level 4 while you were level 8 by counterjungling, and I guess Riot didn't like that (since at that point they are basically forced to int or afk).
Slythion3 votesJungle has been gradually and consistently getting dumbed down with each preseason for several years now. It used to be one of the most skill-demanding roles but not anymore...not since Riot wanted to make everything about the game more new-player friendly
Dr Dog3 votesbecause snowballing is already i giant glaring problem, its NEEDED rn
princeblumpkin2 votesYou guys whined and whined and whined that the game was too snowbally, so they made catchup exp. Now you hate it; go figure.
gabetheguy1 votesbecause fuck counterjungling
Fade to Black991 votesDue to stupid players who can't play their position too well. If they lose too much in levels they will just brag and whiner about how league is a hard game and they can't have their famous ''comeback''.
To remove solo carrying and turn this game into more team ''oriented'' game. I know it sucks. I was Top Tryndamere with 40+ creeps, 6 kills ahead of my top laner. Top laner just killed few minions and voila he is my level and can 1v1 easily even tho i have 6 kills. You just can't solo carry unless your opponents are idiots.
Game needs better system as this is ridiculously stupid. There was comeback even when this xp catch up thing wasn't implemented. I remember season 5 when we had to play good to win the game, now it's just ''Wait me farm a big and i'm the same big annoying shit!'' Now no skills = more money :) Less hard game = more kids to play :) Profit in the industry. A bit mad community but that isn't anything to compare to the $ we will get. Hehe
Looknook1 votesCatchup Exp is in the game for a variety of reasons that others have meantioned but also to help out the sup role. Supports spend a lot of time roaming and doing important tasks that leave them Exp deprived. So catch-up Exp is one way to make sure they don’t fall 4 plus levels behind everyone else for doing their job.
Badgeblitz1 votesthen it should ONLY effect the sup champs
Hügö1 votesNot like the kha is way ahead in items which are way stronger then the level difference.
iV0lt4GE1 votesWait what!? Didn't Riot reduce jungle catch-up exp back in preseason, what is going on?
VvVVvV1 votesI didnt even know this was a thing but after reading the comments I think its dumb. People should not be rewarded for getting behind. It should be up to the team to help them catch up....it is a TEAM game. If 1 jungler is behind and the other jungle starts camping their camps then its the teams job to respond. Ward your jungle. Depending which camp it is top and mid should collapse or mid and bot.
If it was mainly put into the game to help supports who lose XP because they are roaming or placing and clearing wards then it shold only be them who get the catch up XP.
