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Riot : We don't want to force champions into 1 playstyle

Zed genius··62 votes·3,913 views

Also riot: item 3147 Seriously now, I saw stylish taking about it the other day, and I hadn't really thought about that tbh. With items like Duskblade riot is forcing ad assassins to play a bush camping-1 viable item build playstyle. This is legit not fun. It is repetitive and boring. AD assassin items need to be taken a look at, so that it is about the champions and not the item build they have. Zed for example used to have a few viable builds. Now you either rush duskblade or you lose the game, simple as that. Lethality was a mistake imo, old armor pen was much more fun and rewarding to use. AP assassins are not in a better place either. Gunblade is basically core on a few of them Leblanc Katarina Akali ). Maybe the LB changes next patch will be focused around standard ap, who knows. But the assassin rework was a failure with a few exceptions. It's not only LB that needs work on her. If you are absolutely refusing to nerf bot lane at least give people tools to kill them, this meta is residentsleeper af.

  • Sincerely from someone who mains assassins.

75 Comments

Diamond2Kappa41 votes

Sincerely from someone who mains assassins.

Play some other class or go jungle

  • sincerely Riot heh
Zed genius5 votes

check my recent history :)) I'm a zac/rammus/sejuani player now :^ )

Jofeyy3 votes

Not like this :'(

ZedUsanGovos3 votes

BibleThump. First it was Vermilion, and then The Best Zed KR, and then Stylish (for a bit). Everyone seems to be leaving Zed and League. I'll personally stick with them till the bitter end (because I have no reason to actually try in this game lmao). This feels like a conspiracy to purposely drive Zed mains to extinction. :thinking:

Zed genius1 votes

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=azoh also azoh is a jax main now lmao

ZedUsanGovos2 votes

######O O F

wildfox998 votes

{quoted}

Play some other class or go jungle

  • sincerely Riot heh

just play the new old Rengar

DuskDaUmbreon8 votes

Also sincerely: Anyone who wants to win a game ever.

Assassins have almost always been a huge risk for their team, except when assassins are super-dominant. The only time that risk was ever truly justified was when there's a specific target that you need an assassin to kill. Which, as it's always been? Has been basically never.

Why? Almost any mage can do the same effective thing an assassin does. Sure, they have less damage overall, but they also generally have hard CC. Meaning it doesn't matter how slippery their ADC is, all they have to do is land one ability and said ADC is fucked.

Yet mages also do the same thing more safely.

Nearly every single time you pick an assassin, you put your team at serious risk of losing. Nobody wants to see an assassin on their team because it's universally meant that you're going to lose far more often than you win.

It's not a statement by Riot. It's a statement of fact. Assassins are feast or famine. Either they feed their asses off or they crush the entire enemy team. But they end up falling off like crazy in late.

Yes, I do realize that the other purpose of an assassin is to snowball everyone else. But that's an issue for another comment.

Troll Socialist2 votes

, but assassins also have better escapes, less time for the enemy to react (especially stealth assassins), and do more damage overall, making them more likely to actually kill their target, even when slightly behind. Moreover, assassins generally have more % (missing) hp dmg, making them better versus tanks.

Madsin2513 votes

RIP DIVERSITY

Alistar BardChogath Ezreal Galio Kennen KogMaw Malphite Malzahar Maokai MissFortune Sion TwistedFate Varus ZacEvelynn Warwick

Shacophobia3 votes

:( Shaco

Troll Socialist2 votes

Bard, Warwick and malphite have diversity!

Modl Ryden l13 votes

I agree, Lethality basically made it so Assassins MUST build Lethality or their damage falls off significantly.

Same goes for 92% of ADCs. they MUST build Infinity Edge or they will have no damage.

Slythion4 votes

I mean, it wasn't any different with armour pen. Lethality's purpose wasn't ever meant stop making pen mandatory, it was to reduce the efficiency of pen when assassins get a lead so they don't just steamroll like they used to.

Lethality can't be faulted for forcing Assassins to build it because they had to do the exact same thing with armour pen. Literally nothing changed in the sense you claim it to have

wildfox991 votes

{quoted}

I agree, Lethality basically made it so Assassins MUST build Lethality or their damage falls off significantly.

Same goes for 92% of ADCs. they MUST build Infinity Edge or they will have no damage.

item 3089 item 3135

same for APs

Troll Socialist1 votes

item 3020 Also, the damage increase from rabbadons is not that significant.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku7 votes

adress crit items and shield sh*t first

FCJAAAAGOOOO4 votes

And by crit items you mean how effective crit items are on Marksmen.

Because otherwise no one but Tryn and Yas build crit lol.

Troll for Trump1 votes

{quoted}

And by crit items you mean how effective crit items are on Marksmen.

Because otherwise no one but Tryn and Yas build crit lol.

Xin zhao, Yi, Noc, Old Rengar, Shaco,

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Xin zhao, Yi, Noc, Old Rengar, Shaco,

Xin Zhao is terrible with a crit build Nocturne is underplayed and has a weird kit so I am not going to talk about him

Troll for Trump1 votes

{quoted}

Xin Zhao is terrible with a crit build

Not atm, crit build is highest wr build in KR

Venomar1 votes

New Xin build coming out of Korea is Warriors into Shiv then IE/full bruiser. It's pretty gross, far from terrible.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votes

i won't talk about trynda cause he need a rework. Yasuo seems okay (on right hands as planned), he deal alot... but he's a melee (u won't melt before reach him).

Crit used to deal stupid damage during late (wasn't healthy if u ask me), but now they spike too early.

Thunderneedle4 votes

Stole evelynn ad and hybrid playstyle

Baron of Bread4 votes

Almost every class has one or two core items that they have to build. ADCs and Infinity Edge, Juggernauts and Black Cleaver, Divers and Trinity Force, Mages and Morellonomicon. Assassins could stand to have a couple more options for lethality items along the lines of the various Zeal items, but almost all classes would like that kind of bump in build diversity.

The reason AD assassins are stuck in one playstyle is because their kits are almost entirely damage oriented. Their tools are either ways to blow someone up, get to someone to blow them up, or get out after blowing someone up.

Zed genius3 votes

it's not even their kits, they used to have more variety in playstyle before duskblade got reworked last summer, and the champs are hardly even changed since then

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

Explain by "Variety in playstyle"

saltran1 votes

You caught the circlejerker, he wont answer and in a few days he will make another post like this. Boards are truly the worst.

Steel Blossom2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZkvj1LA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-15T18:18:36.216+0000)

Almost every class has one or two core items that they have to build. ADCs and Infinity Edge, Juggernauts and Black Cleaver, Divers and Trinity Force, Mages and Morellonomicon. Assassins could stand to have a couple more options for lethality items along the lines of the various Zeal items, but almost all classes would like that kind of bump in build diversity.

The reason AD assassins are stuck in one playstyle is because their kits are almost entirely damage oriented. Their tools are either ways to blow someone up, get to someone to blow them up, or get out after blowing someone up. Adding tools to do other useful things into the kits

You know what's stupid? The concept that one class has to build one set of items. Real diversity is when different assassins had full builds that were almost completely different from one another. That was when assassins only HAD two items for our core, and we could build whatever helped our kit the most after that core is done. Now our "core" is pretty much 4 itemsitem 3147 item 3142 item 3071 item 3035 , since item 3157 /item 3026 +item 3047 are both such strong combos. Even the last item is also almost always locked to beitem 3026 , since nothing other than a second live can really make you last in the meta where everyone bursts as hard as assassins. This is fucking bullshit, and the polar opposite of diversity.

Baron of Bread1 votes

When only two of your items really matter for your damage and you are a class based around killing a single target quickly you run into a balance issue. Either those two items are enough to get you into late game and you are ridiculously strong early, or they aren't and you start falling off like a rock about the time lane phase ends.

Old assassins did have more than two items, but they were still running into that problem because almost all of their items were balanced with other classes as the core users. None of their items had power spikes similar to each other, which made it so the deciding factor in a game was when their first one or two purchases were made. Yes, Duskblade is a giant power spike, but with more lethality items sitting around the assassins have a much smaller disparity between their first purchase and each additional purchase. No more Talon gets Tiamat and Mobis, kills everyone for 5 minutes, then falls off. They have a manageable power curve which makes them much easier to balance.

But that's not all, after your Duskblade and Youmuu's (because I'll be real, you are almost always getting these two) you have options. item 3156 Maw of Malmortius and item 3139 Mercurial Scimitar for too many AP threats, item 3814 Edge of Night for the stinking Lulu that is going to Polymorph you the instant you are in range, item 3035 Last Whisper and associated upgrades for when the enemy ADC felt armor was worth it, item 3071 Black Cleaver for when you might have to fight someone just a little longer or you need the speed/health, item 3026 Guardian Angel for when you feel armor stacking is worth it or you just want to live. The pool isn't huge, but since you aren't going to get full build in this day and age anyway there are plenty of options for what you will complete game to game.

Anatera3 votes

Riot likes to use buzz words, unaware of what they actually mean, so when they do stuff in game it ends up contradicting what they say.

Northmund3 votes

Assassins are tied to supports, they are the one who always stop them from one combo enemy ADC. I got idea for a long time now and got no response from riot what so ever. Idea is: Point to click shields should have really low effect time. What it means that Janna, Lulu will have to shield exact time when damage is dealt to negate damage. Now we have Janna/Lulu constantly keeping up the shield with tons more support items backing them up (not mentioning exhaust) Idea is to add some skill into those abilities.

Dorans Pants2 votes

{quoted}

Assassins are tied to supports, they are the one who always stop them from one combo enemy ADC. I got idea for a long time now and got no response from riot what so ever. Idea is: Point to click shields should have really low effect time. What it means that Janna, Lulu will have to shield exact time when damage is dealt to negate damage. Now we have Janna/Lulu constantly keeping up the shield with tons more support items backing them up (not mentioning exhaust) Idea is to add some skill into those abilities.

i just love how people equate supports to walking shieldbots. But dw i agree with your idea to make shields more skill oriented. duration, travel time, delays even shields as skillshots are all things that could be looked into but will never happen, since, apparently, riot actually wants the support role to be as braindead as possible and dumbs it further down every chance they get.

meanwhile, i´m playing this guy Bard and i am fucked 90% of the time against assassins because my only cc spell happens to be a skill shot that also has a condition. and the one thing that is worse than instant point and click shields is bullshit mobility that gets you in everything and out of everything that not instantly ccs you. you can easily chase people down with it and even if u fuck up you still have the best tools to run away like a bitch. that´s not high risk at all. so i would be careful with adding delays to everything especially cc, since those hyper mobile fucknuggets have all the tools imaginable to dodge everything that has a ramp up time.

(but thats just me hating on assassins in general)

Poske3 votes

Gunblade is core ON LB

Literaly didnt build gunblade on Le blanc last 200 games while having 60% winrate in dia1/master

No its not. Only subpar lb would build it

I mean she does have a strict core item but its not Gunblade

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Lichbane? (Sorry, I have no clue about LB)

Infernape1 votes

{quoted}

Lichbane? (Sorry, I have no clue about LB)

It's either Gunblade (with an optional Lich Bane) into full AP, or you stay on the Revolver and go into Lich Bane and burst people with your clone (it procs on hit effects and things like Revolver/Lich Bane).

Poske1 votes

Bassicly this

Either you are bad Le blanc who fuses revolver way to early into an incorrect item at that

Or you are good Le blanc who sits on revolver till she gets Ludens + Lichbane and then finaly fuses it into a protobelt which is a most efficient option

Ari chąn3 votes

Riot: "Let's rework most assassins to dumpster trash tier because they are unhealthy to the game". Meanwhile a 0/5 Zoe nuking people from 1000 meters away with one damaging ability is considered healthy.

Steel Blossom2 votes

lmfao, I've been saying that since the removal of Brutalizer and old Last Whisper. Splitting our core stat into so many different items legit kills build diversity, and putting so much of our burst into one item only makes it worse. You don't see a BotRK Zed or a crit Talon or a Hydra Kha anymore, it's all just straight lethality in the hopes of doing anything even resembling damage.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

What else do you want? I'll try to avoid strawman, and say you want things like Tank/Bruiser assassins, but honestly what else do you want??

Steel Blossom8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZkvj1LA,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-02-15T21:22:01.804+0000)

What else do you want? I'll try to avoid strawman, and say you want things like Tank/Bruiser assassins, but honestly what else do you want??

What else do you want? Only what we used to fucking have. Like crit Talon. Or Hydra Kha'zix that procs his Isolation super easily. or BotRK Zed that can shred bruisers and hurt tanks. That was actual diversity. Riot wanted people to move away from all rushing Last Whisper, and instead locked each individual class into basically one full build. It's retarded, and also counterintuitive as fuck.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BZkvj1LA,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-02-15T21:25:03.645+0000)

What else do you want? Only what we used to fucking have. Like crit Talon. Or Hydra Kha'zix that procs his Isolation super easily. or BotRK Zed that can shred bruisers and hurt tanks. That was actual diversity. Riot wanted people to move away from all rushing Last Whisper, and instead locked each individual class into basically one full build. It's retarded, and also counterintuitive as fuck.

To be honest, it is not fun to be shredded as a tank or bruiser by Zed, which is supposed to be an assassin. Now if he was meant to be and balanced around being a melee carry like Yasuo or Master Yi are, that would be a different history.

I agree with everything else said, though.

XvWrathfulvX1 votes

Everything that Rito has done since they announced the new runes has forced players into one specific play style per champ and its honestly disheartening. The new runes make it so you have even less options when playing your champs and some runes are just completely useless. Ask yourself this. When was the last time you saw someone use Hexflash or Glacial Augment in a ranked game. Outside of a few niche champs these runes are useless. On top of that matches are no longer about strategy or team play and instead are only about who can get ahead first in the early game. Nowhere is this more noticeable than in bot lane. With the removal of come back XP once you get put behind you stay behind barring an act of god. As a support main I notice this a lot more then most positions would. In fact there have been quite a few games were i'll end up several levels behind everyone else and have to spend the next 20 minutes farming sidelanes to MAYBE catch up and be relevant. This whole game has become so unbalanced and full of bad design choices that its nearly unplayable. It makes me sad to be honest because I used to actually like playing this game.

KorZod1 votes

hexflash alistar is actually hilarious and great cheese, if maybe not perfectly optimal

LupusAkira1 votes

Poppy builds item 3147 and does so much damage its not funny. feels like some champs item 3147 is meant for can build it and do just as well.

ThunderSkelett1 votes

What about the champion evelynn you cant force harder then that

Zed genius1 votes

I do not play eve so I thought it was appropriate to only mention champs I personally play and know

Troll Socialist1 votes

Assassins aren't the only champions who have this issue. Pretty much every recent champion/item rework has forced champions into fewer and fewer playstyles. Galio: used to be a flexible champion that could go burst or tank, and was a pretty decent support, too. Now he's pretty much only viable as an ap bruiser. Evelynn: used to be able to go bruiser, ad, or ap, and even support with the old Zeke's. Now she can pretty much only go jungle ap. Urgot: used to be playable as both tank and adc, now literaly has a kit built around a shield that reduces your dps. etc. It seems that with every rework Riot takes the most boring part of a champion and focusses the entire rework around that. Galio; scales with mr Eve; can go in stealth for long periods of time Swain; has abilities that look like birds Urgot; has a shield that alters his playstyle temporarily.

Iasam1 votes

It's like we can have a meta where assasssins just one shot everything or one where support janna 1v1 them. Rito have a hard time balancing assassins

Theorex1 votes

Assassins aren't as threatening as they used to be because of a few factors.

The jungler is in every single lane. Always.

Majority of problems stem from too much free time from junglers right now.

Junglers don't lose out on too much if they sit in lane for 30-40 seconds waiting for the enemy laner to overextend. I do it all the time on trundle jungle.

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