Suggestions for Heimerdinger Changes

Immortal Fenix··1 votes·882 views

Let's be entirely honest: Heimerdinger is just an annoying little troll in ANY lane he picks. His turrets give him INSANE staying power in-lane, and the fact that he can store another 3 turrets to just lay down the moment a gank comes his way makes him extremely difficult to corner for a gank. His other abilities scale well, and hold less power but retain usefulness. His rockets can clear a wave, or deal massive single-target damage while his grenade acts as a slow or stun, depending on how it's used and where it lands.

But his TURRETS, man. Those little machines make Heimerdinger unquestionably one of the strongest champions to bring to lane. Can he be countered? Yes, yes he can. But it doesn't change a few simple facts. One: His turrets are -permanent-. They deactivate after x period of time when he goes back, sure, but they never are removed from the map unless destroyed. Two: His turrets' charged shots are incredibly difficult to dodge because of their massive hitbox. I agree with the punishment for taking that extra chunk of damage if you aren't being safe, but they are so hard to avoid, you might as well not get in range.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like the fact that he's a strong champion. He needs to be, because he's got very little damage outside of his fairly average cooldowns. But I have to wonder if he's a little -too- strong right now. As such, I've made a list of potential changes that would simply make Heimeringer have more burst damage and have to -think- about how to use his turrets, rather than just lay them leapfrog and become ungankable. These could be lumped together to make one massive nerf, but I really think only one or two of these should be used to keep his skill cap where it is.

1: Turrets decay after x seconds, increasing with each rank of the ability taken. This would not only eliminate the 'turrets forever' Heimerdinger, but it would also mean that he can't just spam his turrets to keep 3 up in-lane, and 3 charges ready to use.

2: Turrets gain charges slower the more turrets are deployed. This keeps Heimerdinger from spam-placing turrets, and makes him think about where he should place them for maximum strategic value. It also prevents the issue of 'I FINALLY KILLED A TURR-- Oh, feck, there's another one.' from happening as often.

3: Turrets are worth MORE GOLD. Turrets really aren't worth much to a laner that manages to kill one through the insane interlocking fire that Heimerdinger has between his other turrets, and his abilities. Trying to take one out is high-risk, low-reward. 5g? I get more for killing a GP barrel. And that's EASY!

4: Turret charge shots STOP with the first two targets hit. Let's be honest, if you don't lower the speed or hitbox of the charge shot, it needs to have some other way to avoid it to make Heimer players think about where to best place turrets. This lets minion waves help tank out the biggest turret threat: The charged shot.

Now, I've tried to lay out potential solutions. These would all cripple the strongest aspect of Heimerdorker, yes... But in all of my experience, Heimerdinger is very low-risk, high-reward in lane. Melee champions can't get close to him, and ranged champs only have a hope of destroying his turrets. And, honestly, great Heimerdinger players rely way too heavily on a mechanic that just makes him damn near -unstoppable- in lane. I've played against him in top and mid, and midlane is really his only weak role. I've seen him go APC on bot rarely, and he destroys the lane as well because the ADCs are too squishy to get close to the turrets to kill them.

That in mind, you also can't cripple a champion's defining aspect.

I just hope that you guys at Riot, or you that make up the playerbase, can see that and understand that Heimerdinger is just an incredibly hard foe to face and that I -don't- want to see him gutted. Just gently rapped with the balance-hammer.

14 Comments

ShinobisDemon1 votes

he already has a tower limit, i mean your changes are great and all, but he can't spam towers. it's not like he puts down 30 of them or anything, it's just 3 and thats it. 'Heimerdorker' is OP but you have to use him as a counter pick, in the same way you wouldn't be dumb enough to first pick vayne bc of caitlyn counter. I think heimer, although he could be a little OP; he isn't OP compared to 50% of the champs.

Immortal Fenix1 votes

He gets a limit of three -active- turrets, and 3 -stored- turrets at the same time. I understand that he can't spam them, but the fact remains that because they are permanent fixtures until destroyed and the fact that they hit -so hard- makes him an incredibly strong force to fight in-lane. He's got few toplane counters, while his mid counters are a little more varied. He needs -something- to make his turrets a little less of a crutch to hide under (Thus, making him nigh-untouchable.) and more of a utility to use when punishing an extended champion, or to defend against a gank or push.

ShinobisDemon1 votes

{quoted}

He gets a limit of three -active- turrets, and 3 -stored- turrets at the same time. I understand that he can't spam them, but the fact remains that because they are permanent fixtures until destroyed and the fact that they hit -so hard- makes him an incredibly strong force to fight in-lane. He's got few toplane counters, while his mid counters are a little more varied. He needs -something- to make his turrets a little less of a crutch to hide under (Thus, making him nigh-untouchable.) and more of a utility to use when punishing an extended champion, or to defend against a gank or push.

He has to sacrifice things too. He cant gank top or bottom, he is 50% useless without the towers. He even has mana, lets compare that to a champ liike, Zed for example. A zed Q W E at lvl 13ish (the sameish level you were talking about with the 3 stored towers) does about half of someones hp, atleast a third. This has no mana cost and he can do it every 10 seconds or so.

To be as immobile and scary as heimer is he has to give up alot of things most mid laners have.

Immortal Fenix1 votes

Zed has a high skillcap to hit all of those abilities, while Heimer just has to sit under his turrets. Can Zed stand up to the damage long enough to get -near- Heimer to pull all that off in a full combo? I'm going to assume 'no'.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

{quoted}

Zed has a high skillcap to hit all of those abilities, while Heimer just has to sit under his turrets. Can Zed stand up to the damage long enough to get -near- Heimer to pull all that off in a full combo? I'm going to assume 'no'.

Zed ults a target and press r if it's going bad or he finished his combo. Zed has a execute passive and no mana. He gets bonus ad with a slow and dash. I'd say he isn't hard, he is a very forgiving assassin champion

Mathbalnase1 votes

Zed players are rewarded for their skill with Zed.

Heim players are rewarded for their opponents lack of skill against Heim.

Conversely, while Zed players are punished for their lack of skill with Zed, Heim players are punished for their opponents skill against Heim.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

If you are going to need him that hard, might as well tell players not to play him. Quite honestly, he counters a lot of champs but gets counter by many as well.

I still think he needs a buff to his E ultimate and a nerf to his ult q.

HaugheyPuck991 votes

It might just be because of my usual pool of champions that I go mid with, but I've never really had too much of an issue taking down anyone playing Heimer. Don't just charge at his turrets straight away, try and bait out their charged shot before you run close enough to take them down. Just run to the very edge of their range then immediately run to the side. The shot's speed isn't exactly slow, but it does have to travel a small distance before it gets to you. I find that I can usually dodge it most of the time unless they're all grouped and shooting me from different angles. Early game they have a pretty long charge time, so deny him from setting up a bunch of them and it makes setting up early ganks much easier.

I agree that they should be worth just a bit more gold though.

ShinobisDemon1 votes

Heimerdinger actually has more skillshots than zed, 4 total. Zed can easily W ult e q ignite ult back. Wait for inevitable death. Zed. Akali, Syndra, Ahri, Xerath, Azir, Ekko, Swain, Zed, Yasuo, Ziggs, Viktor, Orianna etc. That is already more counters than most champs have. (Zed counters, Kayle, Kayle and Kayle)

Immortal Fenix1 votes

{quoted}

Heimerdinger actually has more skillshots than zed, 4 total. Zed can easily W ult e q ignite ult back. Wait for inevitable death. Zed. Akali, Syndra, Ahri, Xerath, Azir, Ekko, Swain, Zed, Yasuo, Ziggs, Viktor, Orianna etc. That is already more counters than most champs have. (Zed counters, Kayle, Kayle and Kayle)

You forget that the usual Heimer strategy is to literally SIT INSIDE HIS TURRET BOX. Syndra has some ranged poke and can at least move his turrets, so I'll give you that counter. Akali, Zed, Ekko, so on and so forth are assassins and can not stand up to the damage his turrets put out. Yasuo -can- counter, but he has to be extremely skilled to not mess up. Heimerdinger's turret power is in the sole fact that they can be placed down, and he has a mobile fortress of leapfrogging turrets. I am honestly shocked and highly disappointed that no one else seems to have -any- issue with this whatsoever.

ShinobisDemon2 votes

{quoted}

You forget that the usual Heimer strategy is to literally SIT INSIDE HIS TURRET BOX. Syndra has some ranged poke and can at least move his turrets, so I'll give you that counter. Akali, Zed, Ekko, so on and so forth are assassins and can not stand up to the damage his turrets put out. Yasuo -can- counter, but he has to be extremely skilled to not mess up. Heimerdinger's turret power is in the sole fact that they can be placed down, and he has a mobile fortress of leapfrogging turrets. I am honestly shocked and highly disappointed that no one else seems to have -any- issue with this whatsoever.

Do you actualy play heimerdinger or just speak from the other side? Bc he was one of my first champs and every ne of those champs counter him completely. Ekko can walk right into the towers burst him down ult boom heim dead. Zed can w ult right in and kill him b4 he kills zed. Akali can invis walk right up to him and kill him. And every other champ either heal off of him or can just poke down the towers when they go up.

Immortal Fenix1 votes

I have played him, I do not main him. I actually give him a few games every free week to feel out his gameplay. But, quite simply, I'm honestly tired of trying to defend my points from people who are adamantly sticking to 'Lol you're wrong Heimer isn't too strong Heimer weak' from people who, most likely, main the champ and refuse to admit that he is even a -little- strong.

I am not denying that Heimerdinger isn't weak to certain champions. It does NOT change the fact that his turrets... ONLY his turrets... Are a little too strong for the current game of League, and need some way to balance them out. Other champions don't get permanent fixtures on the map... Heimerdinger does, and they hurt. Bad.

ShinobisDemon1 votes

{quoted}

I have played him, I do not main him. I actually give him a few games every free week to feel out his gameplay. But, quite simply, I'm honestly tired of trying to defend my points from people who are adamantly sticking to 'Lol you're wrong Heimer isn't too strong Heimer weak' from people who, most likely, main the champ and refuse to admit that he is even a -little- strong.

I am not denying that Heimerdinger isn't weak to certain champions. It does NOT change the fact that his turrets... ONLY his turrets... Are a little too strong for the current game of League, and need some way to balance them out. Other champions don't get permanent fixtures on the map... Heimerdinger does, and they hurt. Bad.

I wasn't saying he was weak, and I don't main him either. Just to get that out of the way. We are about to enter an assassin meta, Heimer won't even be able to defemd himself soon. We are currently in a tank meta, people can walk right through his towers.

Mathbalnase1 votes

If you're having trouble dodging Turret lasers, they're still incredibly easy to bait out. Try switching to that, instead.

Heimerdinger is not low-risk/high-reward. Heimerdinger is low-risk/high-reward against people who don't know what they're doing, and high-risk/low-reward against people who DO know what they're doing.

Coming from someone who (used to) play a lot of Heim, the players who actually adjusted their playstyle to account for his kit absolutely destroy him. Those games get pretty unrewarding for Heim pretty quickly. The players that don't change their behaviours, though? The ones that blindly allow the teamfight to sit in his turret nest, eating his full DPS including ult turret? They get rightly slaughtered.

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