Tanks Should Be Next After Assassin Rework

Robert Smith··4 votes·799 views

INTRO Remember back when item 3751 was first introduced? It gave tank junglers a chace to compete and be an actual threat instead of another body. Then some champions were nerfed (Sej being the most notable one) and then Cinderhulk was nerfed as well. This was due to the item giving to much power to a class that cannot be powerful and defensive.

We are now at a point in time where we have a Juggernaut class where certain champions are allowed to be strong and defensive at the cost of having little to no CC or mobility. At the same time we have more damage for ADC and champions who use similar items to them. If the Assassib rework turns out well, there will be another class that can deal tons of damage to both tanks and squishies alike. item 3147 item 3153 item 3071 are items that can hurt high health and armor champions with little counter. How is it fair that Tanks can get destroyed as quickly full damage Sona yet do no damage when compared to her.

The problem with tanks is that if given a "tank item" others can abuse it until it gets nerfed, item 3053 . Or because of items certain champions become very annoying and either they, the items or both become nerfed which just affects the tank class since they can just build normally after that (Ekko ,Akali MasterYi Fiora Fizz ). Updating the class would allow items to be given more or less strength or have qualifiers such asitem 3083, an example would be all tanks have a minimum of 2500 base health at 18 so items would only work for those who have that requirement.

CONTENDERS The Holy Bronze comprised of Amumu Malphite Shen because of how strong and easy they were in lower elo. All of which are tanks and have some form of CC that keeps an enemy in place. Shen is the weakest in terms of power when compared to the other two. But unlike Shen, the other two can build AP and become heavy damage dealers. I fear that if they become too popular then they will get nerfed until they are't even good tanks anymore. Reworking tanks so they focus more on CC and less on CC+damage could give more opportunities to give stronger/unique CC (Such as Amumu Ult stuning and not snaring, or malphite ult scaling with armor while having a shorter CD or longer knock up).

This would also give Riot the time they need to fix some mistakes they admitted on making. Shen was said to miss the mark a bit because of his Q but due to time restraints they cannot go and fix it. Skarner and Morde both suffer from some if not a lot of mistakes that ,although not all are bad, are bad enough for some rioters to admit too.

Other Champions I would like to see get updated :Sejuani DrMundo Rammus Galio Maokai Singed

Are all of them in a bad spot, no. Do some of them have stale or uninteresting gameplay, probably not to their fanbase. Do some of them need Tons of Damage® because of all the mobility, Life steal, and damage their up against to even be viable, yes.

I'm not saying all their damage needs to be taken, or make them have more CC. But if Assassin are appearing in more games, Tanks will need to be changed in order not to die in the first few seconds of a fight.

16 Comments

Erockandroll3 votes

Just a few nitpicks about your contenders.

  1. Don't drop a Tanks damage, especially if they are a Jungler. Cause for a Jungler, clear speed is everything. And Tank Junglers were a non factor until they came with Cinderhulk. (Because Tanks could actually clear at a reasonable pace.)

  2. if Defensive itemization sucks, simply because offensive champs abuse the hell out of it. The best solution would allow your tanks to hyper scale with that defensive itemization. Like with %Armor/MR boosts, Scaling sustain mechanics, etc. Though the funny thing about that is, you find those more on the Juggernauts. This could also be a good point to highlight unique scaling on certain tanks. (Rammus, Singed, Galio) So for someone like Singed, maybe increase his mana->HP ration from 100:25 to 100:35.

  3. The other option, would be to make them more spell focused. A lot of Tanks that have plenty of CC/defenses in their abilities, can get a lot from shorter cooldowns. (Only real tanks Build Frozen Heart) And Tanks with plenty of AoE (Sion, Maokai) Can very effectively at clearing wave at close range.

  4. For some of your actual contenders. Shen is probably going to get excluded in such an update. If they needed more time than last time, it probably won't come out as part of a roster update. Also, Mundo isn't a Tank, He's a Juggernaut. So he's going to be balanced around his survivability and his damage. Galio and Singed are just weird hybrids that riot should probably consider more in depth. Galio is Kinda both a hybrid tank/mage, and an Anti mage, Since his MR->AP passive and what not. Yet the mage update didn't do him any favors, So riot should probably find a way to highlight some strategic niche he could fill. Singed is more peculiar, though less problematic. His DPS from his poison trail isn't enough to be considered a Juggernaut. (though he's too fast for a Juggernaut, but he doesn't really have good reliable CC to fill the tanks role either. So he falls somewhere in between.

Robert Smith1 votes
  1. I agree with keeping their damage but probably just early game, no reason for strong CC moves to have high base damage other than the fact that they are a relic of earlier seasons.

  2. Thats what I kinda want but champions that can build full tank and still deal damage when they are not suppose too occur. My idea is nerfing the items while buffing the intended champions so the changes to them are none, while significant to others.

  3. Spell focus tanks are how some of them are anyways so bringing the rest up to standard could help them. But I'm not an expert to say what changes need to be made.

  4. It's a wish list. I would expect Shen to be a minor change like how Brand/Annie were done, maybe veigar level (mechanics the same but tweaks on damage and scaling). I counted Mundo because his usually build excludes any damage items and he lacks scaling other than health and his W. He seems fine to me but thought i mention him anyways.

Dreadlocks2 votes

ADC item 3031 APC item 3089 Assassins item 3147 Tanks item 1409 Supports?

Notice that ADC's and APC's can easily increase their damage by a % via item 3031 item 3089 But tanks are pigeon-holed into jungling for their %...

Robert Smith1 votes

Support is the other role that tanks can fit into so well. The problem with making another item for tanks is anyone can use it. Even if they added a minimum health limit, champions like Tankko and Tank Fizz still do well with no damage items. The kit in themselves should be changed to support a tank build and maybe the items as well.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Well champions like Malphite can go full AP and abuse deathcap.. Basically my point is, if thats the reasoning behind not having cinderhulk as a regular item (not jungle required) then its a champion issue not the item.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

We are now at a point in time where we have a Juggernaut class where certain champions are allowed to be strong and defensive at the cost of having little to no CC or mobility.

id argue that they have existed since season 1. only that except for nasus, and mundo they just never got any attention and most of them were trash for 5 seasons.

juggernauts are not a new concept in league. its just that for a short period, more than 1 or 2 were allowed to be decent.

thats already over with aswell. the mage update took a major dump on a lot of them, and riot hasnt even looked into it.

Robert Smith1 votes

I would counter argue that before those champions were more treated like tanks, I wasn't around back then so I can's say for sure. We also still have people complaining about Illaoi and Darius being too strong and hard to kill.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I would counter argue that before those champions were more treated like tanks, I wasn't around back then so I can's say for sure. We also still have people complaining about Illaoi and Darius being too strong and hard to kill.

youll always have people complaining about juggs dealing damage and being hard to kill. and if you look into the profile of these people, almost all of the time theyre sitting in low bronze divisions. im not kidding.

i guess the concept of tanky melee carries is difficult to understand for people who are coming from other games.

but the concept exists at least since garen was released.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Elrb6nbA,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-09T14:59:44.186+0000)

youll always have people complaining about juggs dealing damage and being hard to kill. and if you look into the profile of these people, almost all of the time theyre sitting in low bronze divisions. im not kidding.

i guess the concept of tanky melee carries is difficult to understand for people who are coming from other games.

but the concept exists at least since garen was released.

I mean part of it is how good defenses actually are. People haven't quite grasped how much base damages hurt, when you don't even have a basic defensive item. (Also, why armor pen is so good)

Though in champ select, you could argue that their arn't enough lane counters. Because Juggernauts get a really good damage to defense ratio, they become decent duelists in general. Yet the only skirmishers who have proven to be better duelists are Fiora, and Trundle. (Fiora, because of her HP true damage shred, and Trundle because he steals tank stats.)

{quoted}

It's divers. Aatrox Irelia XinZhao are in need of reworks too.

The funny part about that is, the diver, and the Assassin have such a similar function, that they create a lot of cross over, like were having right now. (oh yeah, Ekko is an Assassin, who builds defensive items, and does the Diver's job better.)

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

If the Assassib rework turns out well, there will be another class that can deal tons of damage to both tanks and squishies alike.

I disagree: if assassins can do that, then the assassin rework has not turned out well. Assassins must not be target agnostic. They should be punished for blowing their combo on tanks. Ideally it should be hard for them to access %pen and they should rarely to never have %maxHP or %curHP damage.

Assassin executes should primarily have a multiplier based on target's %HP rather than %missingHP damage (the math is complicated, but basically the first one works better for finishing squishies specifically). Or something like Zed ult where it depends on what damage you've already done.

Tanks shouldn't be impossible to kill. But they should be impossible to kill fast except if all 5 players focus them and use spell cooldowns on them; and a team that does that while their opponents do not should lose the rest of the teamfight.

Robert Smith1 votes

There are a lot of AD items that deal % health damage which were ment to destroy a tank quickly. These were ment for ADCs but if more people play assassins then a wider variety of builds could happen too. AD champions are getting more tools to kill quickly and are even getting some of their kits changed as well. Only makes sense that you change some things about the champions that are suppose to be harder to kill instead of making them weaker.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

It's divers. Aatrox Irelia XinZhao are in need of reworks too.

Robert Smith1 votes

Tryndamere MasterYi Diana Nocturne i think are part of the same group, which i agree with you

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Trynd is a skirmisher, Yi is prolly both. Noc is also somewhat both, It's hard to tell the difference between skirmisher and diver IMO.

Diana is a diver/assassin

Robert Smith1 votes

well it would be nice if some of them did more than just auto you to death. Diana and Nocturne have a nice combo and variety in build but the others not so much

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Actually using your skills on yi aatrox and trynd lowers your dps ;-;

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