Thematically a passive like Kayles would make more sense on Kog'maw

Carrie Pigeon··33 votes·2,322 views

Was just considering passives and how Kog'Maws doesn't make to much sense compared to his kit. Looking at Kayles passive it would make sense to have it on him thematically considering his vomit could corrode amour/mr.

Note: This is not a suggestion to change Kog'Maws passive just something I find a bit interesting.

Edit: I am not saying this should be his passive however thematically it would be fitting. I am honestly fine with Kog'Maws passive as their is something so bittersweet killing someone after they killed you but not before you use your joke and sing until your eventual eruption.

47 Comments

Quepha7 votes

Kog'maw's current passive makes more sense for him thematically. He's a little bundle of caustic juices that combine into bizarre and unique effects as he wills them, but fall into unstable chemical reactions when the organs have been ruptured. You meant to say strategically or maybe mechanically.

Carrie Pigeon15 votes

{quoted}

Kog'maw's current passive makes more sense for him thematically. He's a little bundle of caustic juices that combine into bizarre and unique effects as he wills them, but fall into unstable chemical reactions when there's no longer a pilot behind the systems. You meant to say strategically or maybe mechanically.

I did mean thematically. His overall theme in my eyes is a creature who spews out corrosive vomit. That being said I have actually never considered his passive to be the cause of a chemical reaction and with that in mind it does make a lot more sense.

RocketRelm1 votes

To be fair, you could also justify Kog's passive on Kayle. Going out in a burst of light and glory, giving one final fuck you to all of the heretics. She even already has an "I can't be hurt" ability in her kit, which is more justification than you'll ever get for Kog's spontaneous invulnerability+untargetability during Passive.

Anidan1 votes

So Kayle becomes more like Tyrael in Heroes of the Storm?

I can dig it.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

You don't even play Kog'maw. His current passive is detrimental to his play style. For how squishy he is, he HAS to play safe. But if he gets bursted down his passive hardly has consequences.

Carrie Pigeon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-01-07T21:10:30.106+0000)

You don't even play Kog'maw. His current passive is detrimental to his play style. For how squishy he is, he HAS to play safe. But if he gets bursted down his passive hardly has consequences.

Kog'Maw is actually my most played champion however thats only 134k compared to your 500k mastery points but I'm just going to ignore that first sentence. While it does work for what it is I'm simply saying a shredding passive such as Kayles would make some overall sense theme wise but not at all balance wise.

NodirjonSattarov2 votes

I was talking to the Quepha person. I respect what you have to say 100%. I have no respect for people that talk about champions they don't play.

I really want them to give Kog'Maw an overhaul that he deserves. I would love Kayle passive on Koggy

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-01-07T21:10:30.106+0000)

His current passive is detrimental to his play style. For how squishy he is, he HAS to play safe.

That's not what "detrimental" means. If his passive does nothing then it has no consequence, positive or negative. Its existence never hurts him by making him take more damage or reducing the damage he deals, thus it cannot be detrimental.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

Kog'Maw is required to die to make full use of his kit. Imagine having an ability in the game that requires you to die in order to make use of it, but you end up not dying the entire game. Also, the passive has no synergy with his kit? If he died and released an MR/armor shred with his true damage he'd be useful.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-07T23:13:58.209+0000)

Kog'Maw is required to die to make full use of his kit. Imagine having an ability in the game that requires you to die in order to make use of it, but you end up not dying the entire game. Also, the passive has no synergy with his kit? If he died and released an MR/armor shred with his true damage he'd be useful.

That's such a nonsensical viewpoint. Why does it matter that, in a perfect game, you wouldn't use your passive? In a perfect game you would clearly be winning so why are you complaining about not being even stronger?

Not to mention your complaint about synergy and suggestion to turn it into a defense shred. How is Kog going to take advantage of a defense shred when he's already dead? How is it not synergistic with his kit when the only way to stop him is for a diver to get on top of him and he has an ability that makes it way more likely for them to not survive the process? That's shoring up his biggest weakness.

The complaints for abilities like this (I don't have to imagine an ability that happens on death because I have played Kog'maw, Karthus, Sion, and old Zyra, I know what the abilities feel like) tend to come from an idea that these passives take up the passive 'slot' (despite the fact that Riot has had more than a few champions now with two or more passives) and prevent the champion from having a 'good' passive that would make them stronger, which is not at all how balance works. Champions are balanced around the total power budget of how they perform in various game situations at various tiers of play. A buff anywhere on the kit is a buff to the champion regardless of if the buff is on the strongest individual part of their kit or the weakest, and likewise a nerf to one part of a champion is a nerf to the champion. If the passive does not add a lot of power (or only adds it in rare situations) then it does not take up much of the power budget and thus is not a source of weakness for the champion. The common request for an ability like this, to replace it with something stronger/better/more relevant, would be a net power increase and thus require a nerf to some other part of the champion's kit to maintain a net zero on the power budget.

DemainaNyx1 votes

Azir passive is useless until a tower dies. Jinx passive is only useful if you help kill people/towers. Leona passive is only useful if there is an ally nearby who can attack the person she attacks. Soraka passive only works if an ally is low health. Taliyah passive requires her to be near a wall. Vayne passive is only good for chasing enemies. Zilean passive is only useful until everyone hits level 18.

Those are the only passives I could think of that are just not as useful as some of the others in the game. Not that Ashe is really strong, but her passive is applied on every auto and her abilities while Jinx requires that a champion or tower dies that she helped kill before it kicks in.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Azir passive is useless until a tower dies. Jinx passive is only useful if you help kill people/towers. Leona passive is only useful if there is an ally nearby who can attack the person she attacks. Soraka passive only works if an ally is low health. Taliyah passive requires her to be near a wall. Vayne passive is only good for chasing enemies. Zilean passive is only useful until everyone hits level 18.

Those are the only passives I could think of that are just not as useful as some of the others in the game. Not that Ashe is really strong, but her passive is applied on every auto and her abilities while Jinx requires that a champion or tower dies that she helped kill before it kicks in.

You didn't mention the other death passives: Karthus (considered one of the strongest passives in the game) Sion Anivia One of Zac's One of Aatrox's

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

Look all I'm saying is that for how safe Kog'Maw has to play he gets nothing out of his passive to benefit him besides doing a ton of true damage if he catches up to them. Most of the time he's bursted down and can't catch up. Not to mention that he has one of the slowest base move speeds (even if it is increased with is passive) vs champions that are able to dash or have increased move speed to run away from him. His passive gets you a kill 1/10 times which is useless.

Juahu3 votes

I was really confused at first because I read this post completely wrong.

I thought you wanted Kayle to start exploding on death instead of kog.

Looknook1 votes

That would be pretty funny and I mean it could theoretically work ya know. She starts glowing a bright yellow like a sun before exploding in a nuclear like explosion in the middle of the enemy team. Although it would still have the same problem Koggles has now with the passive not lining up with his kit.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Honestly it might be more satisfying on Kayle than Kog. Kayle is expected to get into very close situations where she might just barely survive and get a kill too because of her ult. Making it so she would also be able to take someone with her if she does get killed might actually not be a terrible direction for her.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

His passive makes him super fun in ARAM though. You can Snowball into the enemy team, open fire and even if you die you take someone down with you.

ARAM, where even Kog initiates.

Best Kog NA1 votes

Kayle's passive is kinda like koggles Q. If you would change the passive you'd have to change his Q. And at that point it would be a full rework because Riot would have to change the whole kit. Kog's already been through enough changes.

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-07T03:50:27.007+0000)

Kayle's passive is kinda like koggles Q. If you would change the passive you'd have to change his Q. And at that point it would be a full rework because Riot would have to change the whole kit. Kog's already been through enough changes.

Which is why I said Note this is not a suggestion. It would make sense as a passive considering Kog'Maws kit however I don't think it should be applied to him. I would have changed the topic to misc had the create a discussion let me.

Quepha2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-07T03:50:27.007+0000)

Kog's already been through enough changes.

On this I disagree as reverting his changes has left him with an old, fairly boring and typical kit when every other adc had their niches and mechanics carved out to be very interesting and unique.

However I think his current passive is fun and iconic and since it's not a huge source of power I see no reason for anyone to tamper with it.

Best Kog NA1 votes

Ya. Riot made a mistake reverting the rework. It was something new. Something bold. Kog'maw was the ONLY champion that could break the 5.0 attack speed limit. But people got triggered and Riot had to revert it. There's so many things they could've done to balance his 5.0. But Riot doesn't care about the rarely played Kog'Maw ADC

Nahui5 votes

We can pretend like Kog didn't hit high win rates under 5.0 and didn't melt enemies after his first back.

Best Kog NA1 votes

I never said the rework was perfect. What Riot should've done was nerfed the damage his W did with on hit items. Make the damage from on hit effects half as well as normal attacks. They should've nerfed it but they shouldn't have reverted the rework. I would be fine with a 47% winrate kog'maw if he still had 5.0 attack speed.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-07T04:40:50.885+0000)

Ya. Riot made a mistake reverting the rework.

I disagree here too. They were constantly fiddling with both Kog and his items after the rework and he was never in a really 'balanced' spot.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

I disagree. The rework gave him a thematic that was the dullest you could make out of an ADC, turning them into a literal turret that just stands there and autos. Gearing him much more to being the debuffing ADC, where he weakens enemies for both himself and his team is a much healthier and interesting direction to take him.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Nothing would be lost in that case. His Q is a pretty unsatisfying ability as it is, in terms of how it feels.

Best Kog NA1 votes

I like it for farming in 2v1 scenarios as it has a little bit more range than W empowered autos and it does a decent amount of damage early with a pretty good cooldown.

Rebonack1 votes

I wouldn't mind seeing more power poured into Kogger's resist shredding on Q even if (especially if) it meant his stat-check button had to be nerfed a bit in the process. Kog would fit nicely as THE damage amp Marksmen. Would go well with the theme Riot keeps saying he has.

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't mind seeing more power poured into Kogger's resist shredding on Q even if (especially if) it meant his stat-check button had to be nerfed a bit in the process. Kog would fit nicely as THE damage amp Marksmen. Would go well with the theme Riot keeps saying he has.

If this were to happen I could definitly see his Q %Atk speed be reduced if not removed. It is essentially a free 875 gold worth of desireable stats.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

If this were to happen I could definitly see his Q %Atk speed be reduced if not removed. It is essentially a free 875 gold worth of desireable stats.

I've got a full Kog remake sitting around somewhere focusing on making him more resist shred/damage amp focused. It would without question require reducing his %HP damage, but I think that's a good thing.

WoonStruck1 votes

Or Jax so he actually functions past 20 minutes.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Or Jax so he actually functions past 20 minutes.

Riot just needs to make all of Jax' spells deal magic damage again so he can grab item 3135 and continue being relevant once people start getting some resistance.

That, or make a hybrid %pen item.

Which would probably launch Kayle's brokenness into the exosphere.

WoonStruck1 votes

Jax's Q and E dealing magic damage wouldn't change anything. Most of his damage is physical even if they dealt magic damage. Q and E are not a significant portion of his damage.

Jax needs Jax-specific % bonus pen for both magic and physical damage. Introducing an item would just break champions like Kayle, Teemo, Corki, and Kog because they have the massive benefit of range, thus being able to build full damage and actually apply it pretty reliably.

agbudar1 votes

PLZ NO the terror and nightmare that is kogmaw would never stop haunting our nightmares who would run away in terror

General Esdeath 1 votes

I still think Corki and KogMaw need to swap passives

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

I still think Corki and KogMaw need to swap passives

That would be hilarious but would make Kog'Maw way to AP heavy. That being said imagining a Corki in a ROFLcopter thats ready to crash steering towards the closest enemy to him would be quite a sight.

Anu3isII1 votes

While it fits thematically, it would need some serious number balances (nerfs) across all his kit.

His current Passive is like Old Zyra's Passive: the opposite of his play style. Any Passive that enchants his play style would seriously break him without careful changes to his base kit.

While I admit it should be changed, it will be very difficult to balance him, and it will require a lot of time till he will be in a balanced spot.

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

While it fits thematically, it would need some serious number balances (nerfs) across all his kit.

His current Passive is like Old Zyra's Passive: the opposite of his play style. Any Passive that enchants his play style would seriously break him without careful changes to his base kit.

While I admit it should be changed, it will be very difficult to balance him, and it will require a lot of time till he will be in a balanced spot.

Honestly imo Kog'Maw is in the best spot balance wise he has been in a while. The post made was all about how fitting it would be thematically being an even better tank shredder along with fitting a corrosive theme. Changing his passive to this would likely result in a heavy nerf to Q and W and potentially leaving Kog'Maw in an even worse spot.

Varnoc1 votes

Probably should have gone to the Art & Story Board in that case :P

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

Probably should have gone to the Art & Story Board in that case :P

I attempted to change it however there was no drop down box. Clicking gameplay only showed me other gameplay posts.

Dengeden1 votes

Especially thematically, you can justify anything. If Kog's spit hurts you, you can rest assured, when you destroy/destabilize the rest of his body, that's gonna hurt.

From a gameplay perspective, it's like an indirect defensive ability: You should dive Kog'maw, but do it too sloppily and he will trade kills or chunk your team with his passive.

Très Pauvre1 votes

do people still play kog adc? Like lets be real he's an ap mid laner right now... which i love

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Très Pauvre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eizh6V48,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-01-07T17:09:29.717+0000)

do people still play kog adc? Like lets be real he's an ap mid laner right now... which i love

According to Champion.GG 70% of Kog'Maws take him ADC and 20% take him Mid. His playrate mid dropped drastically after the AP Kog'Maw E nerfs.

Best Kog NA1 votes

Because of my name mostly. I need to keep the meme alive.

FantasySniper1 votes

Mechanically, as Riot has already stated multiple times, the reason Kog'Maw has a "death passive" is because it helps to balance his hyper-carry role.

Thematically, he already has his [Q] that shreds resistances.

NARootsono1 votes

He just need a complete rework, thats all.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

old jungle kog was so fun to play. not to play against because it was broken as hell. but it was fucking hilarious getting 25+ kills a game with it. just insta delete enemy tank in like 2 seconds

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