My stance on the AP Kog'Maw nerfs.

Carrie Pigeon··7 votes·1,497 views

Note Riot Meddler has stated "We wanted to buff ADC Kog. AP Kog's one of the strongest solo queue mids in the game at present though. That meant we felt we had to trim some power from the AP build at the same time, since the W buff would also increase AP Kog's strength."

Anyways heres my say on this.

Overall the tradeoff did not seem all to fair. Looking at AP kog'maws playstyle he never seemed to auto attack much as that would put him in danger thus the additional 1% damage on W has little to no impact on AP Kog'Maw. On the patch 6.24 log it was stated "A few light touches should get both flavors of the void puppy to a stable spot." This is anything but a change to make AP Kog'Maw stable.

The reduction of his base damage on E along with 20% AP ratio (making it 50% like his Q and potentially R) which is a massive nerf as he lost his core laning ability. To top the E nerfs off we also received Rylais changes which was a core item on many AP Kog'maw builds. If you felt AP Kog'maw was to oppressive while AD was lackluster you should change the ability that had the most issues being his R. Granting it a longer CD but a better AD Scaling would've been a major nerf to AP Kog'Maw (as he could no longer stand back and spam it) while being a pretty significant buff to AD Kog'Maw because as it stands he can only fire off 6 ultimate shots (including usage of Q E and W as they would likely be burnt in a teamfight also factoring in the usage of Sheen as this is currently on his recommended and Trinity force is among his most frequent build) and it unlikely for an AD Kog'Maw to fire off all 6 potential shots as it would interfere with his auto attack timer.

Lets look at this for what it is an just Riots dislike for AP Kog'Maw. While using a buff to AD Kog'Maw as justification for these changes Riot has shown they will not directly buff a champion if another impactful change to them can come. This can be seen with patch 6.24 Kalista changes or lack of due to the buff of fervor of battle

I really don't know what Riots plan with Kog'Maw as because as soon as he shows dominance in any lane other that bot he is changed. This can be shown with prior AP Kog'Maw nerfs and the unreworking of Kog'Maw (which I personally find lazy on Riots part since they didn't seem to attempt to balance Kog'Maw much prior to the unrework and failed to completely revert the changes as shown by W still having the 40 mana cost). I feel as if Kog'Maw can never truly find a balanced state with how Riot dreams being a late game hypercarry. My reason for saying so is if Kog'Maw is to strong early we face a champion who has little to no drawbacks and only seems to ramp up from an already decent laning phase or should Kog'Maw be extremely weak early-mid game theres the issue of actually playing Kog'Maw when there are champions such as Jinx or Tristana who can fill the hypercarry AD Marksman role much better due to a better early/mid game actually giving them a chance to be impactful.

One change I have seen Riot experiment with (and wish they would try again) was shifting his %Atk speed from his Q to his W on patch 6.3 (during the reworked phase of Kog'Maw). While this change does seem a bit odd this one change could majorly benefit AD Kog'Maws playstyle as he no longer has to max Q second for the bonus attack speed. While this doesn't seem like much being able to max E second would let Kog'Maw be a bit safer due to the increased slow giving him more time to react to an enemy champion running at him. While on paper this change seems minor it would in fact be a major buff (and a slight nerf to AP) to AD Kog'Maw as gives him a slight better laning phase.

12 Comments

WoonStruck3 votes

You're basically grabbing for buffs to AP Kog, who absolutely does not need it.

The change shifted power out of his E, and into his W. AP Kog should be forced to use his W, whether you like it or not. It is a completely fair change.

The playstyle of nuking someone from 1k+ range needs to go. Its exactly why Xerath was reworked. Its exactly why Ziggs has been so problematic at points.

What makes Kog a special snowflake in that regard?

Carrie Pigeon2 votes

{quoted}

You're basically grabbing for buffs to AP Kog, who absolutely does not need it.

The change shifted power out of his E, and into his W. AP Kog should be forced to use his W, whether you like it or not. It is a completely fair change.

The playstyle of nuking someone from 1k+ range needs to go. Its exactly why Xerath was reworked. Its exactly why Ziggs has been so problematic at points.

What makes Kog a special snowflake in that regard?

Actually I don't want any buffs to AP Kog'Maw (outside of an E revert) and even mentioned in the above post that changing R the most problematic spell for AP Kog'Maw would be a sizeable nerf while giving potential to buff AD Kog'maw.

Using W is fine however when you shift a massive amount of power (a 20% AP Ratio reduction is a massive nerf when you consider 70% is was his only decent scaling) from one ability for a slight change to another it's an issue. While I do see what you mean by saying he should be forced to use his W as it is a part of his kit the changes to it were to sufficient to make the trade off decent what so ever.

The playstyle Kog'Maw has as an AP mage is unhealthy due to his ultimate which again is why I said change the ultimate but let him keep his mid range E ratio. By nerfing his ultimate but keeping E the way it is would prevent Kog'Maw from staying at max range 24/7 as to do damage he would be required to actually hit someone with his ability.

I admit AP Kog'Maw was oppressive in his time lived however considering the nerfs done to his E along with Rylais changes it was a bit severe are does not fix this issue of a Kog'Maw killing people from a screen away.

MisterShameless2 votes

If only Vayne's W was an ability that was like Kog's W where you need to activate it in order to get the true damage procs as a temporary buff. I'd seriously would enjoy that if it ever becomes a thing.

Wind Whistler2 votes

{quoted}

The change shifted power out of his E, and into his W. AP Kog should be forced to use his W, whether you like it or not. It is a completely fair change.

What the fuck are you saying? No champion should be forced to use an ability that doesn't suit their playstyle. That's called bad design.

WoonStruck1 votes

W does suit his playstyle. You can still keep people 700+ range away with it. How is that not artillery?

Kog has always been intended and balanced as a 'marksmen', so if anything, AP Kog being a thing at all is the 'bad design' because its gimmick is that it avoids the use of his W to stay out of range of any interaction with enemy champions.

Wind Whistler1 votes

{quoted}

W does suit his playstyle. You can still keep people 700+ range away with it. How is that not artillery?

Kog has always been intended and balanced as a 'marksmen', so if anything, AP Kog being a thing at all is the 'bad design' because its gimmick is that it avoids the use of his W to stay out of range of any interaction with enemy champions.

That's not artillery. That's sustained, single target, short ranged damage. Artillery is Xerath and Zigg's Q, who have nearly twice that range.

Noblewind2 votes

I don't know...his win stats mid were becoming very strong, and not that I played him because the champ isn't my thing, but I watched a few diamond players with him and that waveclear was a little overkill with just an item or two.

I don't see how arguably borderline OP getting a nerf means it guts the champ (OP wasn't saying this but others are). This just brings him into line a bit

Carrie Pigeon1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know...his win stats mid were becoming very strong, and not that I played him because the champ isn't my thing, but I watched a few diamond players with him and that waveclear was a little overkill with just an item or two.

I don't see how arguably borderline OP getting a nerf means it guts the champ (OP wasn't saying this but others are). This just brings him into line a bit

His win rate wasn't to absurd considering a .6% playrate as low play rate and high winrate are typically hand in hand similar to how earlier that patch Corki yielded the highest winrate mid. That being said AP Kog'Maw was an issue as he was insanely strong post 6 due to his insane poke however this was due to his ult and nerfing his only decent AP ratio which was the only thing keeping him alive in the laning phase is an issue. To add to the insane E nerf they did nerf Rylais and while it is cheaper it is less effecient on Kog'Maw as an early giants belt along with a 40% slow was amazing. While the stats of Rylais are now fair especially for the price it would sitll be an overall nerf.

When people state they gutted Kog'Maw mid they aren't to far off. Keeping in mind his Q E and R ratios were 50% 70% and 25/50% (based on current hp) and removing 20% of a spells ratio is a massive nerf when considering other spells have low scalings. To add on top of this they also removed a bit of base damage (35 if I'm not mistaken max level) did seem a bit overkill especially when his main issue was his ultimate and champions such as Viktor also have insane waveclear at less of a mana cost as clearing the casters as AP kog'maw level 9 took 160 mana minimum (120 from E 40 + 40*amount of casts per cast up to 400).

While I personally believe the nerfs were needed as again it was insanely strong Riot did not nerf the right thing in nerfing his E and should've hit the R. At the moment Kog'Maw mid is extremely weak due to the lack of an early game (an immobile squishy high mana cost champion needing to rush a tear) and will be extremely punishable. It is playable however just isn't worth playing over other poke mages at the moment in my opinion.

MatthewRT21 votes

Well they could just give him ad scaling

Carrie Pigeon4 votes

{quoted}

Well they could just give him ad scaling

I'm honestly surprising AD scaling isn't in Kog'Maws kit outside of his ultimate.

AttackOnTeemos1 votes

{quoted}

I'm honestly surprising AD scaling isn't in Kog'Maws kit outside of his ultimate.

Because Kog already has a combination of multiple Champions in his skill. He has Vayne's Proc Damage but in every hit with his W, he has Urgot's E as his Q WITH attack speed boost. He has a Slow, and a nuke. For Giggles he also has Old Zyra's passive. Kog is literally that one adc that can go Hybrid

Kharn Skyshatter2 votes

{quoted}

Because Kog already has a combination of multiple Champions in his skill. He has Vayne's Proc Damage but in every hit with his W, he has Urgot's E as his Q WITH attack speed boost. He has a Slow, and a nuke. For Giggles he also has Old Zyra's passive. Kog is literally that one adc that can go Hybrid

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Kog was a champion that was added before those..

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