Kindred is what Quinn should have been.

I agree. Quinn seemed to want to embody that "tag-team animal companion" fantasy, but all Valor ends up being is special particles on Quinn's abilities. He only poofs into existence when triggered by one of Quinn's abilities.

Lamb and Wolf better embody the fantasy. Wolf is always around, waiting to be told to strike. Wolf adds quite a lot to Lamb's dialog. Opponents have to be careful of not only Lamb's positioning, but where Wolf is as well. It really helps you feel as if you're playing two champions at once; something that Quinn was never able to accomplish for a lot of players.

Quinn is a completely different champion than Kindred, with a completely different playstyle. The only thing you can compare them is that they have a companion, which in that case through in Annie, Nunu, Yorick, Mordekaiser, and Azir

Who is Quinn?

Realistically speaking, Valor is _always _ with Quinn, just really freaking high up, and only shows when called. However, it is slightly unrealistic at the same time.

How do you feel on this idea, towards riot: A visual update of Quinn & Valor, where valor is always by Quinn's side. Whether it is flying with Quinn, or on her shoulder, who knows.

Quinn's passive activates as Valor selects targets. So, as Valor randomly flies around, then, she notes to Quinn someone she is ready to attack (marking them). Valor attacks on Quinn's next basic attack.

When Quinn uses Q, Valor simply dashes forward and strikes that target area then, flies up and returns to Quinn.

When Quinn uses W, Valor flies up quickly, viewing the area, not being around for the duration.

Her E, really anything. Valor flies up, then returns. Or even attacks with Quinn. Yeah, I like that. Attacks WITH Quinn in order to mark them.

Her R is the only issue I would have. It already makes little sense as it is, so, not sure. I personally say Quinn could either jump REALLY high, or hide away into shadows away from the area. Then, on return, Valor flies through a rain of arrows that Quinn fires.

As I said, Valor is constantly around. She drops by to mark targets, and her Q, in an unrealistic way. It would be REALLY cool to see something like this occur. I'm not really a huge Quinn player, but in attempt to see great visual/story/art changes to the game, this would be awesome.

EDIT: .... Shit, is Valor a boy or a girl? I'm sure there are hints in game but I can't think right now.

"Kindred is what Quinn should have been"

Uh... fluffy?

Meh, Kindred actually feels like Lamb with a little bit of a wolf rather than a duo (and actually Wolf seems way more like just a pet than Valor does from a gameplay perspective (tho, Wolf talks so that a thing)). Hell, Lulu and Pix are actually the best duo made - as far as gameplay goes. It helps with attacking, it can cast a spell (Q), you can relocate it to follow other targets (but Pix still can never go too far away from Lulu) and the way it attacks is also nice (since its attacks are blocked by other units). Pix's position actually matters a lot and if Pix talked they would feel much more like 2 champs in one than Kindred does.

Id agree if i didnt find quinn a bit boring to look at. I like my ghost-y lamb thing

Quinn's design is pretty stupid. Valor doesn't feel like a bird, they way he just shoots out straight every time. Penguins come equipped with more dive than that, and they can't even fly.

Quinn is on my top 3 favorite champs, but I agree that Valor is very absent and Riot could do alot to include Valor much more. Quinn's Q is so useless in a crutch. As Valor, it's awesome, fly up and blind everyone around you; but as Quinn it's "We're both shooting each other so let me blind you and I killed a minion and died for it." Since you would only need to blind champions, maybe rework the Q and blind with the passive.

Also the passive is so impersonal. A yellow indicator appears unreliably. If Valor is watching the battle and understands that you're up against some powerful foes, why in the world does he take so long to pick out an enemy. And he rarely picks out the best enemies. Aside from that he's so infrequently picking out an enemy. If you want to commit to a battle you cant, because Valor takes forever to do what he does.

I like w's passive and I like e, and her ult is alright, but perhaps give w's active a better animation. Right now its a noise and some wind. Put Valor there.

But really if nothing else q should be reworked. It's so dumb as an animation style. You throw a giant bird in a line and that bird blinds everyone. I get that it fits with Valor's q, but it looks stupid and doesn't make sense. Where is this Giant bird? At least make him fly from somewhere and not collide with the first target--seeing how it's a GIANT FLYING BIRD.

Yeah thougth the same when seeing Kindred. :) Valor is more gimmick than an actual partner unlike Kindreds companion.

Honestly Beatrice is more a partner than Valor is! :P At least she shows up everytime you want her to... and when you die. x'D

Don't you be hating on my Quinn, just went 21-2-17 with top lane Quinn last night. >:(

Seriously though, I understand what you mean. Kindred is so appealing appearance-wise and thematically, whereas Quinn has none of that.

problem is that is NOT what kindred is... Kindred is a single being divided into peace/violence and Knowledge/feeling They are NOT a female hunter with a pet!

How hard is it for people to understand this?

Sejuani is a female with a pet Quinn is a female with a pet Hell, Lulu is a female with a friend

Kindred is two halfs of a whole!

Jeesh... it's the reksai discussing all over again...

Wolf isn't the companion,its the other half. Have you seen the lore? They work together,never one without the other. and yeah Valor is a badass.

But Valor is everywhere in your moves. She makes your Q, your W, your passive, and your Ult. I think that Valor is more present gameplay wise than Kindred. You don't always see Valor though, but you do see Wolf always.

its not too late.

On another note, encountered another fun Vault bug where, while vaulting off a Darius, had the skill hit, was not interrupted in any way, and immediately stopped dead directly in front of him.

No he didn't E me (I wasn't affected by a slow), yes vault hit him (he was slowed and marked), no Riot doesn't give a fuck about Quinn at all.

I feel this is incorrect. Honestly, I think Kindred is what Kalista should have been, kit-wise.

I am actually quite satisfies with the new champion/s. I don't like wolf's voice, and I think her passive needs a little nerfing, but I think they have great potential. I think they interact very much like a duo, and lamb is supposed to feel like the leader because she is the one that knows everything, the wiser one. Wolf just guides her emotionally. Side note. I'm wondering about bard now. Can he die outside of a game where he has been summoned? Is he higher up, in cosmic rankings, then the Kindred? Do the Kindred know everything including Bard's full purpose for existence? Hope this gets a red comment explaining but... prolly not.