Daily Reminder that Promo Series are inherently stressful and unrewarding.

PatMcGroyn·Nov 28, 2014·93 votes·4,698 views

It's so demoralizing to grind your way to a promo series, then get matched up with feeders, trolls, and AFKers EVERY. SINGLE. PROMO SERIES. This last promo series, I had a combined KDA of 26/14/43, and just overall very solid performances, and yet somebody on my team always manages to feed to shit. This happened to me about a month ago, too. I was in my Promo series to Plat, and despite performing well individually, my team always managed to produce a huge feeder or AFKer.

Riot, pls.

80 Comments

kanachoNov 29, 201433 votes

I think the fact that not only do you lose the potential 3 games of effort (being prob. 45 minutes on average per game meaning 135 minutes total), but you lose potentially an additional 2 games of LP when you fail the promos. That means you are losing a potential 225 minutes worth of your time. That can be absolutely frustrating. 225 minutes is almost 4 hours! The huge amount of effort you put in can be ruined by 1 feeder/AFKer. That's an issue that certainly needs to be solved.

General KeithNov 29, 20143 votes

/r/hedidthemath

Leti the YetiNov 28, 201421 votes

they should limit promos match making to anyone else who is also in promos ;l

CozarkianNov 28, 201412 votes

That would make it much harder to advance, since 5 people in promos would always lose. A team of promos v. a team of non-promos might work, though.

Leti the YetiNov 29, 20144 votes

Eh, I suppose but then 5 people will always win :D and as it is now, every now and then there might be one guy in promos on both teams and one of em has to lose anyway

PrinceArchieNov 28, 20142 votes

I think people in promos should play against and play with people in promos as well.

ZoofNov 29, 20144 votes

While nice in theory, other servers such as OCE would have utterly absurd queue times in anything above plat 4. personally I just dislike how you need to win 3/4 or 4/6 games to get promoted in general.

Leti the YetiNov 29, 20144 votes

well its either multiple quick potentially shitty games or 1 potentially good game with a long wait where everyone is more likely to be tryhard scrubs such as yourself

AbodyHUN666Nov 29, 20141 votes

actually the longer the matchmaking searches the MMR difference gets bigger too, so you would get those bad stomp or get stomped games

ZoofNov 29, 20141 votes

And if we are talking about say D1 to masters promos, it's already 10+ minute queues with friends having over an hour in off peak times. This would effectively mean that queue could days hours.

AbodyHUN666Nov 29, 20141 votes

So in oce you message people on facebook to come play ranked so you can play against them? :D

LetsgetcookingNov 28, 201418 votes

I stopped playing Ranked a while ago. I'm not going to suffer for the sake of suffering. I want to play a game and have fun: i'm playing only normals.

You want me to play a ranked with you? I'll do my best, but i swear to the AntiTeemo that i will punch you in the face if you get pissed for 1 death: i've had enough of the competitive bullshit. It's mentaly healthier in normals.

Hyrum GraffNov 29, 20146 votes

I think people overall are too stressed in ranked. When I first started ranked, I was also stressed, because I wanted to rank up so badly. Then I realized I don't actually care about ranking up. Like, the fun found in league isn't found by being Diamond, it's found by having fun in each individual game.

So, why do I still play ranked? Because I enjoy winning more when I know my allies and opponents are both trying their hardest. I don't always play ranked - because I also like playing stuff that's just straight-up fun (kat supp anyone?), and sometimes that takes priority over doing everything I can to win.

tl;dr, ranked is fun because it feels good to beat opponents who are trying their hardest, not because I want to be pro.

AbodyHUN666Nov 29, 20142 votes

Exactly like me, I play ranked to see how high I can go, and I play it for competitive enemies.

KijinxNov 29, 20145 votes

Going to get to gold 5 and never touch ranked ever again. In normals I'm consistently paired with gold-diamonds, and the occasional plat. That either means they suck at the game or I'm better than my silver ranking. Either way, I can't stand ranked. Something is wrong when I can expect a game with less feeders and trolls in normals than I can in ranked.

At this point I'm surprised if at the 15 minute mark all my team mates are still connected in ranked. Oh and another thing, what the hell is up with these people who are hostile to their team mates right off the bat? Or at all for that matter. You guys need to WORK TOGETHER to win. I'm tired of people fighting before we even get in the loading screen. It just makes no sense to me. I thought people were supposed to try to win in ranked, and yet I've only ever seen evidence to the contrary.

Fuck. Ranked. /rant

Finis PhoenixNov 30, 20141 votes

Going to get to gold 5 and never touch ranked ever again. In normals I'm consistently paired with gold-diamonds, and the occasional plat. That either means they suck at the game or I'm better than my silver ranking. Either way, I can't stand ranked. Something is wrong when I can expect a game with less feeders and trolls in normals than I can in ranked.

At this point I'm surprised if at the 15 minute mark all my team mates are still connected in ranked. Oh and another thing, what the hell is up with these people who are hostile to their team mates right off the bat? Or at all for that matter. You guys need to WORK TOGETHER to win. I'm tired of people fighting before we even get in the loading screen. It just makes no sense to me. I thought people were supposed to try to win in ranked, and yet I've only ever seen evidence to the contrary.

Fuck. Ranked. /rant

Preach. Preach. Hallelujah

TrueShrikeNov 28, 20147 votes

It feels like promos give you a deliberate matchup first against someone from a higher class and then fit you with someone that should have been perma banned long ago. :P

SammystormNov 28, 20146 votes

Still think the season 2 elo system is better then the arbitrary league system.

JunkοNov 28, 20143 votes

Ranked still uses a elo system, it just put gates every 20 elo that you need to grind though.

Elo overall is terrible system for a TEAM GAME. If you know anything about the original purpose of elo you will understand why.

Hyrum GraffNov 29, 20141 votes

If you know anything about the original purpose of elo you will understand why.

Enlighten me?

Radioactive ManNov 29, 20143 votes

ELO as a ranking system was originally designed for chess. It's based around the concept of personal skill in a pure 1v1 environment. It's absolutely atrocious for any competitive ranking in a team game or sport because of that. Because it doesn't take into account other factors and can have massive variance if it isn't kept strictly personal and in a 1v1 setting.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 29, 20143 votes

Which is why ELO works for 5v5 and 3v3 teams, because they can be considered as 1 entity.

But then we have solo queue and Riot is only asking for toxicity to breed.

Radioactive ManNov 29, 20141 votes

Yup, ELO would still work well for the premade queue it just doesn't work for solo. To be fair though there are pretty much zero current ranking systems that would work for solo queue.

Even if it was still used for premades, which I don't believe it is, you'd still run into issues with non-participation to preserve rating in the lead up to tournaments.

BaculusNov 29, 20141 votes

A heavily modifed Elo system was used in early seasons, mostly by name only. It'd be wrong to even call it that from the point of "Only for 1v1". LoL no longer uses anything close to it in the current and is not an excuse for lack of rankz.

Yandere CarryNov 29, 20145 votes

Or everyone could realize in general, the system works... And if you learn to just play for enjoyment and to get better... It's not as bad as you make it out to be.

BaculusNov 29, 20141 votes

I think the promo series does need tweaked though, tbh. It's best of 5, but takes a game to /get/ into promo. So in reality you need a full 4/6 stretch instead of 3/5. First win should count as one in the series.

Though the current tier/medal system is really skewed with too many in silver/gold. They really should add an unranked category along with another lower tier block; just to give more options for placement.

Yandere CarryNov 29, 20141 votes

Oh I am definitely on bored with the series issue. I agree series suck and are stupid pretend success points that are pointless imo.... But these "elo is inaccurate" conspiracy theories are pure bullocks.

Radioactive ManNov 29, 20141 votes

It's not really a conspiracy theory to state pure fact, Elo doesn't take individual skill within a team environment into account and so it is impossible to get an accurate measure for it. Hence why they moved away from it.

Hyrum GraffNov 29, 20141 votes

What about, you being the only combatant between games? In an individual game, sure; elo is inaccurate. But over many games, the variation in opponents and allies should even itself itself out

I agree with promo issues, but I'm not sure I agree that elo is bad overall.

Radioactive ManNov 29, 20141 votes

It doesn't work. It's just not designed around it even if it is "Heavily Modified" there's no real rating system to take into account individual achievement in a team setting mostly because no one has created it yet because competition of that nature is pretty recent.

Elo is a flawless rating system, for what it's meant for.

Hextech GunBunNov 30, 20141 votes

So would a solution to be a system that does the math across all the games that have been played given the Ranked/Unranked qualification, count the K/D/A (and duration of game?), compare it to the best player and the worst player (AFK Reports would be a factor?) then within that window give it a percentile? Set thresholds for the percentiles, and you have a better system, since you're working off of a total average?

All theory, mind you. I think I'm missing something in regards to the amount variance possible due to a lower number of games being played total.

Yandere CarryNov 30, 20141 votes

No, it wouldn't work for a very simple reason. KDA does not = skill. This fact is beat to death by high elo players when trying to give advice. "This isn't call of duty, kda is not what you should be worried about." The goal of the game is to take out the nexus (which is done by killing towers/inhibitors). There are many strategies where a player could have a sub-optimal kda and still be the key factor in winning. Also, what about champs who do great at snagging kills but honestly lose games outright beyond laning phase? (Here's looking at you AP Tristana.)

Yandere CarryNov 30, 20141 votes

They didn't move away from it. They still use the Elo system. The promo series stuff is to just give it more meaning psychologically for each segment you accomplish. It is also to give it a more organized feel. The elo system is still how things work.

Wallaroo0226Nov 30, 20141 votes

They didn't move away from it. They still use the Elo system. The promo series stuff is to just give it more meaning psychologically for each segment you accomplish. It is also to give it a more organized feel. The elo system is still how things work.

The promo series is nonsense. The first game is most certainly higher ELO players meant to stomp you. Beyond that is destiny. It could be trolls and feeding or the 50% chance or lower that you win.

Yandere CarryNov 30, 20141 votes

conspiracy theory

BaculusNov 30, 20141 votes

They don't use higher Elo players in promo series; it's still going go be (for example) silver 1, gold 5/4/3. In your placement matches it /will/ spike difficulty however to see if you can keep up.

BaculusNov 30, 20141 votes

They don't use an Elo system, at least in the way you're suggesting it. The matchmaking system is built around 5v5 gameplay and has many, many tweaks involved to take into account the variety of teammates and roles. LP =/= Your matchmaking score, btw. Though it too uses a modified amount based on the matchups between the teams.

And they /do/ take into personal performance, in some matchups, weighting the teams so you're the statistically strongest player. The match rides on you the most those games.

Yandere CarryNov 30, 20141 votes

. LP =/= Your matchmaking score, btw.

No shit sherlock. Personal performance can't be taken into account. What is taken into account is if you win games.

BaculusNov 30, 20141 votes

If you knew that then you'd stop writing off the system as 'Elo', when it's not; at least what everyone keeps claiming the Elo system as.

And personal performance is taken into account with how it matches you; either weighing you heavier into your team's win or lighter. If it's the former, your performance is going to matter.

DeathByWaffleNov 29, 20144 votes

Promos were an awful idea and I swear there is no one outside of riot who likes it.

utDOOMNov 28, 20143 votes

On the other hand, it takes more than a lucky game for your opponents to kick you back down a division. The reason that this system is better, is that, although it's harder to climb, it's also harder to drop.

Also, I don't see how promos are unrewarding. They give me a kind of, "I DID IT!" feeling.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 29, 20142 votes

Actually, it's easier to be kicked down that go up, because going up places you at 0 LP, whereas going down places you at 75.

So, inherently, going down is more punishing that how rewarding going up is.

Ariel the CruelNov 28, 20143 votes

I find not playing ranked is a great way to not get stressed out over promos. XD

KING ATTILANov 29, 20143 votes

Don't forget that there are plenty of high ranked smurfs that will get to promos across all divisions and then purposely lose.

SaiannaNov 29, 20142 votes

That's why i stopped playing rankeds. Too many trolls.. To many... I'm silver II if i rememebr correctly.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 29, 20142 votes

I'm pretty sure that promos are largely responsible for the toxicity that exists in the current community in games.

And seriously, getting into promos from 95-99 LP should give a bonus, because it's retarded as fuck. Like 1 extra game to play.

DeynaTaggerungNov 29, 20141 votes

This wouldn't go all the way to fixing this issue and some closer look into the matter is probably needed but temporarily giving a loss prevented to anyone in their promo series who as an afk on their team. To be clear this would ONLY be for people who are in promos. It would easily solve one of these issues. (also the person would have to have been afk for at least 10-20 minutes to prevent people from dcing right at the end to save a person in promos..yah, unlikely but still worth adding)

kanachoNov 29, 20142 votes

Could make it so if anyone DC's or AFK's 8-10 minutes into the game (early enough so that outcome of the game isn't determined yet preventing abuse), and don't return within a certain period of time (at least 10-15 minutes?) it becomes loss prevented making it so they don't lose or gain LP because of the massive disadvantage a long AFK gives to the team with the AFKer. OF COURSE the AFKer would not get the lost prevented, and in fact would still lose LP, and the enemy team who wins the game would still get their LP so that 1 person doesn't ruin everyone's time, giving everyone who is still playing the benefit of the doubt.

DeynaTaggerungNov 29, 20142 votes

I guess the more I think about it the more that seems like a fair idea. Either that, or LP gains and losses are at least minimized as Riot realizes it's hard for one side and easy for the other. Winning a 4v5 would then cause Larger LP gains and losses because one side must be pretty good and the other pretty bad.

Wallaroo0226Nov 29, 20142 votes

This wouldn't go all the way to fixing this issue and some closer look into the matter is probably needed but temporarily giving a loss prevented to anyone in their promo series who as an afk on their team. To be clear this would ONLY be for people who are in promos. It would easily solve one of these issues. (also the person would have to have been afk for at least 10-20 minutes to prevent people from dcing right at the end to save a person in promos..yah, unlikely but still worth adding)

I like the idea of just making it a wash so long as the person AFK or DC'ed is not a duo since that could be abused. You don't get screwed out of a promo.