Diamond level Zac player discussing why Zac's ultimate change gutted him

flyingbaklava·5/4/2017, 5:31:01 PM·74 votes·7,852 views

Alright, I have gathered my thoughts after playing Zac for a day and want to pin point exactly why I think Zac has not just been nerfed, but totally gutted. First, I will go over some math. If I am not mistaken the base damage from the old ultimate and new ultimate didn't change. What did change was that you could only do the damage once. All together, with the old ultimate, you could get 250% of the original damage off (100% for the first bounce and 50% for each subsequent bounce). That means Zac lost over 60% of his ultimates damage. It is even worse when you consider the loss in healing from the extra 3 blobs and loss of damage from getting off more Unstable Matter uses from picking up the extra blobs. Now, you might think that with such a damage reduction, the champion would get damage elsewhere right? Not for Zac, no, instead he had damage taken away from his elastic slingshot and from his Stretching Strike too. If his ultimate could scoop people at a larger range then a blitzcrank hook, maybe, just maybe there could be an argument that this isn't a nerf because of the utility that would have. Right now, Zac's ultimate is basically a blitzcrank hook that can grab more then one person (though most of the time I could only grab one). Unlike a blitzcrank hook, you need to put yourself in extreme danger to get it off (melee range) which means landing a skillshot (elastic slingshot) that can be dodged or interrupted (blitzcrank hook can't be interrupted). Also, a blitzcrank hook has a much shorter cooldown and does more damage until you get your ultimate to rank 3. Sure, there are some interesting things you can do with Zac's ultimate that you can't do with a Blitzcrank hook, but is that tradeoff even remotely worth losing all the damage, healing and utility of the old ultimate? From my experience yesterday, in 90%+ of the situations I used the new ultimate, I was left saying "I bet I would have gotten a kill/not died if I had the old ultimate". The only times where I did not say that, my team was already stomping. I really don't know how you can take 60%+ of the damage from an ultimate away without really giving any damage back in the rest of their kit and expect that champion be viable or fun. Has any other champion in leagues history had so much damage taken away from them and still be viable?

140 Comments

Inkult5/4/2017, 5:43:34 PM43 votes

I feel the same way. Of course, there is no turning back. Riot made a terrible decision and probably, sticking to it.

Q is also a nerf for jungle camps. Current Q is very and I mean very hard to stick correctly. Specially during a lane gank.

E Knock up time got also nerfed.

R is just super underwhelming. The dmg, the lack of escape, the lack of dmg.

Zac didnt get rework. Got buried.

Taliyah Rocks5/4/2017, 6:53:54 PM30 votes

I miss old Zac already... he was balanced, felt rewarding, and more than anything, he was fun as heck to play.

He was a strong initiator that backed up damage and a bit of slow when his E and R were on cooldown.

Now he's just very underwhelming. I don't even care if they buff him, he doesn't feel good to land a good ult or Q, he just feels boring.

Tell me what's better between becoming a puddle of good that maaaaaayyyy scoop a few people in a direction... and an ult that makes you bounce around, looking awesome, unstoppable, knocking people away or into your team. It just felt great.

Nipsahoy5/4/2017, 5:51:47 PM19 votes

He always did too much damage imo. Not really sad to see some of it gone.

Venomar5/4/2017, 10:33:15 PM14 votes

Tbh they fucked all three up so bad. I'm so sick and tired of this "let's make things overly complex and complicated and therefore it's amazing" attitude riot has been taking with champ design and reworks.

I was completely blown away that Zac was getting reworked, he would have been almost at the bottom of my list of tanks to try and change.

If a toaster makes toast likes is supposed too then maybe we shouldn't spend so much time and effort trying to figure out how to turn it into a spaceship?

StoryDuck5/4/2017, 10:53:12 PM7 votes

I still don't understand why he needed a rework. Out of all the vanguards he was the one that felt the most unique.

Profirix5/4/2017, 6:15:59 PM6 votes

They will buff him soon, I have no doubt.

Joseraph5/5/2017, 1:57:04 AM6 votes

Please stop jumping to conclusions

You guys do this every rework, and even on some new releases.

Give it a week at least

Kal Vas Flam5/4/2017, 6:04:56 PM6 votes

They're trying to take damage away from tanks in favor of more CC. They want tanks to be harder to kill while reducing their ability to burst down carries. Part of Zac's buffs were to items and not him directly. He is merely one of several tanks that will be losing damage in favor of more specific CC patterns.

Secret Butt Fun5/5/2017, 5:24:59 AM6 votes

Another Zac main here.

I hate the new ult the most. I'd be okay with the Q changes if they made the width of the Q somewhat wider and easier to hit, but that's about it. Changes suck really bad.

Pandemic Punch5/5/2017, 5:58:50 AM5 votes

Zac was my best jungler when I jungled. He is definitely nerfed HARD.

Funkin Dunkin5/5/2017, 12:57:11 PM5 votes

It's funny how when a Diamond player says this he gets 35 up votes. But when a Gold player says this they get down voted. Like shit community are you that "meta hard on" that it takes a guide and a diamond to tell you Zac got ruined? His Q wave clear is non existent now, you can't even hit an enemy behind a minion because it sticks to the first thing it hits. So no more Zac top unless you max out W. Which still could work I haven't tried yet but old Zac Q poke in lane ruined a lot of melee champs.

Zac used to be my boy. My man! My #3 champ. They completely Mordekaiser him. I really hope riot decides to undo this change, they complete took him out of the game.

Nicktoons5/5/2017, 12:29:37 AM5 votes

Riot is gonna avoid this like the plague

A Bepi5/5/2017, 7:50:03 AM4 votes

They took damage out of his kit and added it to sejuani because riot was running low on damage.

Bouncemaster Zac5/5/2017, 6:11:13 AM4 votes

I made a thread yesterday detailing my feelings and was overall happy with the change... until I put more games in and realized just how awful it is.

0ff The Record5/5/2017, 5:39:04 PM3 votes

Riot absolutely needs to revert the changes made to Zac and just admit the mistake. Whoever was in charge of this rework failed in every possible way. Please riot admit your mistake and revert the change. Colossal failure :( ruined my favorite champ. What might be the worst part of all of this.... that he is less fun to play PERIOD.

Snowplosion5/4/2017, 11:57:24 PM3 votes

I don't think it's damage nerfs that hurts, but rather the hard nerfs to his crowd control which really took its toll.

LawUrDepravdHart5/4/2017, 7:44:01 PM2 votes

Riot traded the damage and healing from the old ultimate for the utility of the new ultimate. The ult still does what the old ultimate used to do (primarily for displacement of enemies and peeling for your back line). However, now it excels at catching targets. The range of the displacement is definitely shorter than blitzcrank's Q (at least until Zac maxes the ultimate) however, you can think about Zac's E range as the effective "initiation range" of the ability. Typically you won't get the displacement to work unless you land the E. If you land the 1800 range E and then charge up the ultimate's slow then launch the enemy back 1000 units then it puts the power of the combination into perspective.

You've only played the new zac for a day, so give it a chance and see what kind of amazing plays you can come up with using the new utility. I won a game for my team yesterday by carrying an enemy lucian backwards. We pushed mid for the win immediately thereafter.

DemainaNyx5/4/2017, 10:07:19 PM1 votes

I thought the damage reduction was intentional cause Zac isn't supposed to be killing people any more. Just like how Maokai had his numbers reduced so he didn't WQ an ADC and take half their health.