Something about Dota 2 towers

ACENOX·Dec 20, 2015·32 votes·2,434 views

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Gold#Hero_kills

so i don't play this game but i wanted to see how gold was working, and i actually was surprised by a mechanic. According to the wiki When a Hero dies to creeps or a tower and is assisted by only one enemy, the enemy is credited with the kill (like in league), but when there aren't enemies , the gold is split equally amongst all Heroes .

this actually a good thing because if you happen to be dived but couldn't damage an enemy that died by a tower, you won't currently gain anything since you died with your oppenent but they got 300 gold+assist. This is end up with the tower not helping you while she is on your side being with your team, and this is really frustrating.

So can riot add this to the current towers?

57 Comments

manbearswineDec 20, 20158 votes

No.

It will ruin executes(which cause interesting decisions) for the sake of cases where you didn't attack the enemy.

Either damage the guy,or you got outplayed,no reason to change a good mechanic for such nonsense.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No.

It will ruin executes(which cause interesting decisions) for the sake of cases where you didn't attack the enemy.

Either damage the guy,or you got outplayed,no reason to change a good mechanic for such nonsense.

why op's statement is a nonesense?

manbearswineDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

why op's statement is a nonesense?

Because there is poor sense behind it.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because there is poor sense behind it.

maybe with sarcasm you will understand

"hey dude! you have in your team an ia controlling towers, don't worry he will help you! but if you don't assist him then none in your team not even the ia get stronger, ww...what? the oppenents killed you and died by the tower? welp that's a shame mate, they will have 300 gold+assist while you have nothing, still you can thanks the strong ally which is the tower"

you got it didn't you?

manbearswineDec 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

maybe with sarcasm you will understand

"hey dude! you have in your team an ia controlling towers, don't worry he will help you! but if you don't assist him then none in your team not even the ia get stronger, ww...what? the oppenents killed you and died by the tower? welp that's a shame mate, they will have 300 gold+assist while you have nothing, still you can thanks the strong ally which is the tower"

you got it didn't you?

Nope,still nonsense.

Help the tower first,then the tower will consider helping you.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nope,still nonsense.

Help the tower first,then the tower will consider helping you.

if you don't help your ADC to kill someone, and he kills someone, he still helps you because he will win the game.

manbearswineDec 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

if you don't help your ADC to kill someone, and he kills someone, he still helps you because he will win the game.

But you don't get any gold for that.

As I've said: once the tower recalls he can buy items for all I care.

ACENOXDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But you don't get any gold for that.

As I've said: once the tower recalls he can buy items for all I care.

you don't but the entir team get gold, with the tower your team doesn't get gold.

manbearswineDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you don't but the entir team get gold, with the tower your team doesn't get gold.

How do you know that,maybe the tower does get gold,he just needs to recall.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But you don't get any gold for that.

As I've said: once the tower recalls he can buy items for all I care.

you don't get gold, but you are still helped

manbearswineDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you don't get gold, but you are still helped

Well the tower still helps you,you just don't get gold.

ACENOXDec 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

No.

It will ruin executes(which cause interesting decisions) for the sake of cases where you didn't attack the enemy.

Either damage the guy,or you got outplayed,no reason to change a good mechanic for such nonsense.

it ruins executes because you got killed by the enemy team not by a neutral thing, the tower are clearly with the enemy team i don't see how it is nonesense.

and how dying with the enemy not damaging you is outplayed? they either chain stun you kill you and die, or kill you while you had 100 hp not giving the time to damage them this is not outplayed.

manbearswineDec 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

it ruins executes because you got killed by the enemy team not by a neutral thing, the tower are clearly with the enemy team i don't see how it is nonesense.

Ok,then you can give the tower gold gold for the kill,it can buy a bf sword after it recalls to base and get's back to lane. That's how this game works,you don't get gold for assisting in creep kills do you?

and how dying with the enemy not damaging you is outplayed? they either chain stun you kill you and die, or kill you while you had 100 hp not giving the time to damage them this is not outplayed.

You had the option to damage them first,and if you got stunlocked you had the option not to be there,if you didn't see them coming you should've warded better.

Got New GlassesDec 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ok,then you can give the tower gold. That's how this game works,you don't get gold for assisting in creep kills do you?

You had the option to damage them first,and if you got stunlocked you had the option not to be there,if you didn't see them coming you should've warded better.

if you assist a creep that kill a champion you gain 300 gold imo, but more importantly,

"You had the option to damage them first,and if you got stunlocked you had the option not to be there,if you didn't see them coming you should've warded better"

y you know what? let's bring back season 1 eve, because even if you couldn't see her for 2 min, you had the option to not be in lane and stay under your tower, you just got outplayed i don't see why riot reworked here.

manbearswineDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=2eri 6weel,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T15:18:39.640+0000)

if you assist a creep that kill a champion you gain 300 gold imo, but more importantly,

If you assist a neutral creep that kills the champion you get 300 gold. But you need to assist for that,you'll have to assist the tower if you want the gold.

"You had the option to damage them first,and if you got stunlocked you had the option not to be there,if you didn't see them coming you should've warded better"

y you know what? let's bring back season 1 eve, because even if you couldn't see her for 2 min, you had the option to not be in lane and stay under your tower, you just got outplayed i don't see why riot reworked here.

...Because she was overpowered I would presume? Or you know,couldn't ward effectively against that?

"Let's compare something I can do something about to something I can't do something about,that will make sense!"

AhristocatsDec 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If you assist a neutral creep that kills the champion you get 300 gold. But you need to assist for that,you'll have to assist the tower if you want the gold.

...Because she was overpowered I would presume? Or you know,couldn't ward effectively against that?

"Let's compare something I can do something about to something I can't do something about,that will make sense!"

she wasn't overpowered, she was nerfed way to hard in season 1, then morello said that they went too far with eve, they just had to buff here but hey morello said "long stealth is toxic because it forces you to play safe" of course it isn't the perfect quote but that was the idea, against old eve if you weren't under your tower you had no idea where she was so he is right.

by the way, you don't have to assist an allied zed in order to get him,gold, but you still got the gold, because your total team got 300 gold

with towers, if you don't assist them you gains nothing while they are here to help you, this is just a contradiction, this is the nonesense here.

manbearswineDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=000300010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T15:33:50.968+0000)

she wasn't overpowered, she was nerfed way to hard in season 1, then morello said that they went too far with eve, they just had to buff here but hey morello said "long stealth is toxic because it forces you to play safe" of course it isn't the perfect quote but that was the idea, against old eve if you weren't under your tower you had no idea where she was so he is right.

...Which is different from new eve how? Anyway,not the point,eve was a problem cause the gameplay she encouraged was deemed poor,as you had to constantly hug tower due to never being able to tell where she is,I don't think hugging tower will help here,so that's not the issue.

by the way, you don't have to assist an allied zed in order to get him,gold, but you still got the gold, because your total team got 300 gold

As I've said,the tower will get a bf sword once it get's the chance to recall,you don't get gold for assisting tower killing creeps,you won't get gold for not assisting tower to get kills.

with towers, if you don't assist them you gains nothing while they are here to help you, this is just a contradiction, this is the nonesense here.

They are there to help those who help themselves,damage the guy,then the tower will help you.

Best princess EUDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

...Which is different from new eve how? Anyway,not the point,eve was a problem cause the gameplay she encouraged was deemed poor,as you had to constantly hug tower due to never being able to tell where she is,I don't think hugging tower will help here,so that's not the issue.

As I've said,the tower will get a bf sword once it get's the chance to recall,you don't get gold for assisting tower killing creeps,you won't get gold for not assisting tower to get kills.

They are there to help those who help themselves,damage the guy,then the tower will help you.

it isn't, that's why eve is kept trash because she is an anoying piece of shit.

you don't get gold for assisting tower killing creeps because the enemy also don't get gold for assisting creeps

however when the enemies dive you and kill you, they get 450 gold while you have 0.

i agree that it will ruin executes but who cares riot hates denying anyway and WE hate denying if league had deny i would straight up delete league. The executes don't happen in all my game (didn't happen since at least 7 months) but god when it happens it just give you desire of stopping playing if your team has 0 kill and the enemies have 10 kills.

manbearswineDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=00030001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T16:03:16.848+0000)

it isn't, that's why eve is kept trash because she is an anoying piece of shit.

She's not,by the time last season ended eve was doing very well for herself,what goes on now is rather irrelevant cause you know,new season and whatnot(needs time to stabilize).

you don't get gold for assisting tower killing creeps because the enemy also don't get gold for assisting creeps

...what?

however when the enemies dive you and kill you, they get 450 gold while you have 0.

Yes,because they killed you but you didn't assist in their deaths.

i agree that it will ruin executes but who cares riot hates denying anyway and WE hate denying

No we don't. In fact I'm pretty sure most people like denying as it currently works(aside from the timers being rather random at times).

if league had deny i would straight up delete league.

But it already has. People already push lanes when the enemy laner is gone so that their tower will deny them gold and exp. Denying already exists in league,just through enemy towers for the most part.

The executes don't happen in all my game (didn't happen since at least 7 months) but god when it happens it just give you desire of stopping playing if your team has 0 kill and the enemies have 10 kills.

"Games where you are getting stomped are frustrating"...okay?

ACENOXDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She's not,by the time last season ended eve was doing very well for herself,what goes on now is rather irrelevant cause you know,new season and whatnot(needs time to stabilize).

...what?

Yes,because they killed you but you didn't assist in their deaths.

No we don't. In fact I'm pretty sure most people like denying as it currently works(aside from the timers being rather random at times).

But it already has. People already push lanes when the enemy laner is gone so that their tower will deny them gold and exp. Denying already exists in league,just through enemy towers for the most part.

"Games where you are getting stomped are frustrating"...okay?

eve isn't trash, but if in one game she is picked in pros, they immediatly nerf here, remember that lee sin was permapicked with a higher win rate he wasn't nerfed, but eve had a nerf in 5.14 because riot doesn't want her to forces pro players to play safe, and feeling to be outplayed just because they didn't stand under their towers.

by the way, it is frustrating to be 0/10, it shouldn't be more frustrating because you didn't got the gold since the enemies denyed themselves

manbearswineDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

eve isn't trash, but if in one game she is picked in pros, they immediatly nerf here,

They don't,there was a period of a few months where she saw some competitive play but wasn't nerfed.

remember that lee sin was permapicked with a higher win rate he wasn't nerfed, but eve had a nerf in 5.14 because riot doesn't want her to forces pro players to play safe, and feeling to be outplayed just because they didn't stand under their towers.

That's not it really,riot doesn't care for poor counterplay at the pro scene,they are playing for money,not to have fun. The problem with eve has always been solo q.

by the way, it is frustrating to be 0/10, it shouldn't be more frustrating because you didn't got the gold since the enemies denyed themselves

You can also be ahead and not get gold from an execute,the mechanic is fine,there is plenty you can do to prevent it from being successful,it's up to you and your opponents to make the most out of it instead of just removing depth from the game.

AhristocatsDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

...Which is different from new eve how? Anyway,not the point,eve was a problem cause the gameplay she encouraged was deemed poor,as you had to constantly hug tower due to never being able to tell where she is,I don't think hugging tower will help here,so that's not the issue.

As I've said,the tower will get a bf sword once it get's the chance to recall,you don't get gold for assisting tower killing creeps,you won't get gold for not assisting tower to get kills.

They are there to help those who help themselves,damage the guy,then the tower will help you.

eve may be overwhelming sometime, but she doesn't have a cc pre-6 unlike before

manbearswineDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=00030001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-12-20T16:05:15.208+0000)

eve may be overwhelming sometime, but she doesn't have a cc pre-6 unlike before

The issue is that under plenty of cases the scenario where you are just forced to hug tower as there's no way to tell where she is is the same as it used to be,has been that way since pink wards became visible.

It's not just that,the period of time where eve was really bad is the same where she had no cc,they could've buffed her without giving her cc,but decided that it will just cause her bad gameplay to return,well guess what? It's back.

What I'm guessing that happened was that rioted figured: "Well,we let yasuo and rengar exist,no reason not to let eve be obnoxious as well".

Dar RaksadaDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it ruins executes because you got killed by the enemy team not by a neutral thing, the tower are clearly with the enemy team i don't see how it is nonesense.

and how dying with the enemy not damaging you is outplayed? they either chain stun you kill you and die, or kill you while you had 100 hp not giving the time to damage them this is not outplayed.

so don't stay in lane with 100 hp.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20156 votes

that seems to be a good thing, and the losing team have a greater risk from having oppenent executed (since they get dived more) so it would help them and reduces snowballing

Best princess EUDec 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

that seems to be a good thing, and the losing team have a greater risk from having oppenent executed (since they get dived more) so it would help them and reduces snowballing

you just gave riot a reason to not put this in league

BluePolarizerDec 20, 201519 votes

oh god Riot will never put it in league now.

D357R0Y3RDec 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

oh god Riot will never put it in league now.

???

Best princess EUDec 20, 20159 votes

{quoted}

???

riot went downhill with snowballing, since preseason the game was more snowballing but they kept increasing it by doing minions changes

ShonjlDec 20, 20156 votes

2 issues with this.

A. how would executes in jungle work? People derp and die in jungle sometimes.

B. Why would you get gold when you didn't damage someone and they die to your tower? In a game of last hitting(or hitting at all) it seems kinda silly to make a change from the normal.

The only time executes are ever a thing is if someone is going to die and can't back in time. They try to kill themselves before the enemy hits them. It isn't only hard to pull off but it should reward the player.

"Ohh crap I am in too deep getting this kill and there is several people coming in on me, I need to suicide"

If they succeed it rewards them with taking their bounty gold with them. I just see no reason to change it since you barely even see anyone do it to begin with, much less succeed.

AhristocatsDec 20, 20157 votes

{quoted}

2 issues with this.

A. how would executes in jungle work? People derp and die in jungle sometimes.

B. Why would you get gold when you didn't damage someone and they die to your tower? In a game of last hitting(or hitting at all) it seems kinda silly to make a change from the normal.

**The only time executes are ever a thing is if someone is going to die and can't back in time. They try to kill themselves before the enemy hits them. It isn't only hard to pull off but it should reward the player. **

"Ohh crap I am in too deep getting this kill and there is several people coming in on me, I need to suicide"

If they succeed it rewards them with taking their bounty gold with them. I just see no reason to change it since you barely even see anyone do it to begin with, much less succeed.

that's actually the only issue, but it isn't really an issue because you didn't commit suicide, you killed yourself in the enemy base and this base is allied with the enemy team, since they are allied they should help them by giving gold.

drbob2012Dec 20, 20152 votes

Your towers aren't much of an ally, kind of chaotic neutral with an extreme hate for minions of a certain color. They steal your cs, only target champs after they hit you (including not even defending themselves if minions are around), and seem to actually enjoy the fact that they feed enemies a bunch of gold on destruction.

ACENOXDec 20, 20157 votes

{quoted}

2 issues with this.

A. how would executes in jungle work? People derp and die in jungle sometimes.

B. Why would you get gold when you didn't damage someone and they die to your tower? In a game of last hitting(or hitting at all) it seems kinda silly to make a change from the normal.

The only time executes are ever a thing is if someone is going to die and can't back in time. They try to kill themselves before the enemy hits them. It isn't only hard to pull off but it should reward the player.

"Ohh crap I am in too deep getting this kill and there is several people coming in on me, I need to suicide"

If they succeed it rewards them with taking their bounty gold with them. I just see no reason to change it since you barely even see anyone do it to begin with, much less succeed.

no no, the jungle has nothing to do with this. They are neutral nobody get gold. But i get it, you didn't do damage you shouldn't be rewarded, but then the enemies can just die to towers and say "worth it" because they got more gold than you, the tower who is in your side should be like an ally, but towers doesn't get gold, so it doesn't feel like they are an ally anymore.

CanidaeDec 20, 20152 votes

Well in DotA, if a jungle camp (aka neutral monster) dealt the killing blow, no one would get gold for it as they are considered a separate 3rd party. I doubt players would like that compared to the current system.

Lady HammerlockDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

2 issues with this.

A. how would executes in jungle work? People derp and die in jungle sometimes.

B. Why would you get gold when you didn't damage someone and they die to your tower? In a game of last hitting(or hitting at all) it seems kinda silly to make a change from the normal.

The only time executes are ever a thing is if someone is going to die and can't back in time. They try to kill themselves before the enemy hits them. It isn't only hard to pull off but it should reward the player.

"Ohh crap I am in too deep getting this kill and there is several people coming in on me, I need to suicide"

If they succeed it rewards them with taking their bounty gold with them. I just see no reason to change it since you barely even see anyone do it to begin with, much less succeed.

In DOTA 2 you can deny yourself via the jg so the enemy doesn't get the kill so no gold you only get exp if your nearby tho

TurquoiseYoshiDec 20, 20154 votes

I actually don't like this. Executing yourself can be a very strategic decision. I've seen many times in pro play where someone is caught out and there is an exciting moment of seeing if they can execute themselves. And, if you're dived and can't get one hit off, you should probably get a bit better at hitting opponents.

WukongzDec 20, 20153 votes

I actually like that executing gives no gold. This is not DotA.

TransgressorDec 20, 20152 votes

Great, now intentional feeders can amptly donate to the entire enemy team simultaneously, instead of feeding 1 lane at a time.

Chespin2013Dec 20, 20152 votes

No thank you I feel like having executes in the game is a good thing and that help denying the enemy team gold for a kill is good game design IMO. Especially when I have nowhere to run and have no choice to get executed by tower rather than giving the enemy team a lead.

AhristocatsDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No thank you I feel like having executes in the game is a good thing and that help denying the enemy team gold for a kill is good game design IMO. Especially when I have nowhere to run and have no choice to get executed by tower rather than giving the enemy team a lead.

there is a reason on why riot didn't put deny in the game

Got New GlassesDec 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-12-20T14:46:32.014+0000)

there is a reason on why riot didn't put deny in the game

yes there is one, because it sucks hard.

doublelift fgDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=2eri 6weel,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T15:19:05.317+0000)

yes there is one, because it sucks hard.

why is this downvoted?

MrSlowDieDec 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-12-20T14:46:32.014+0000)

there is a reason on why riot didn't put deny in the game

because it's anti-fun. if you unable to chase someone and attack him or land a skillshot at least once in your own jungle because you don't buy boots or another movement speed boost item, then it's not anti-fun, it's what you deserve.

MrSlowDieDec 20, 20152 votes

is making a thread about doto and farm upvotes is popular atm? if you can't attack at least once because you are a low health that don't want to escape from a dive-able tower, you don't deserve gold. If a troll go suicide in an unprotected tower, you don't deserve gold. If you chase an enemy, and he go suicide because you don't buy boots, you don't deserve gold

I know it's frustrating, I got that a lot too. but this is fair.

Sona PingDec 20, 20151 votes

It's not a "good" thing; it's just different. It's just the same thing as with the differences in mechanics to gaining CS advantages. One is simpler and has clearer function, the other requires more strategic choices for the same effect.

ACENOXDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed46nkd1,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-20T15:40:24.084+0000)

It's not a "good" thing; it's just different. I_**t's just the same thing as with the differences in mechanics to gaining CS advantages. One is simpler and has clearer function, the other requires more strategic choices for the same effect. **_

but it's still a good thing to have in the game because it removes a lot of frustration

Sona PingDec 20, 20153 votes

You, personally, are frustrated by it; there's a difference here. I know for myself, if some guy stuck in an impossible situation makes a good decision and is rewarded for it by making a good play, if he leads the entire enemy team around the map and scores a touchdown, I know my reaction is "Wow... good job." no matter which team he is on.

If League is supposed to be a "strategy" game as it claims it is, then it needs more room for strategic choices using the mechanic of the game, not less of them.

BhagswagDec 20, 20151 votes

Nope. I'm glad this won't ever happen.

BasedJarvan420Dec 20, 20151 votes

So, feeders can just march down the lane and just continuously feed the enemy gold without the enemy needing to do even touch them or anything? Not only that, but the entire enemy team gets the gold instead of just one person. Great idea.

Dar RaksadaDec 20, 20151 votes

I disagree, turning a kill into an execute is a skillful play. An execute, when done well, is denying the enemy gold. if I can see the enemies trying to ambush me I'll just take the Japanese way out if I can't escape.