Using Math To Explain Why Garen is still broken

K54··2 votes·640 views

Here is the link to the match http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2042168968/50791689?tab=overview

At about the 20 minute mark of the match, Garen ult'd me Poppy for 833 true damage.

WAY TOO OP FOR AN ULT THAT NO SCALING ALLOWING HIM TO DO THAT DAMAGE REGARDLESS OF HIS BUILD! (which was full tank)

Chogath Darius Fiora Irelia MasterYi Twitch Vayne Ahri KogMaw Olaf Zyra Velkoz Gangplank all are true damage dealing champs.

The only champions who could obtain 833 true damage in a single attack are Chogath Darius . Let's do the math.

In order for Cho'gath to deal 833 true damage with his ult we set up this formula. 650 + .7x = 833 650 = base damage .7 = ability power scaling X = ability power needed to be built Cho'gath has to build 261 ability power.

In order for Darius to deal 833 true damage with his ult we set up this formula. 600 (assuming he has 5 stacks of hemorrhage) + 1.5x = 833 600 = base damage 1.5 = attack damage scaling x = attack damage needed to be built Darius has to build 156 attack damage.

Cho'gath and Darius both have to sacrifice some tankiness.

Just because it's possible, if Fiora built 6 item 3072 giving her 450 bonus attack damage, she could deal 833 true damage to any champ with over 4000 health with her passive (hitting their vital spot). For every 100 bonus attack damage Fiora gains 4.5% max health damage on top of the 3%. With 450 bonus ad that's 4.5% x 4 + 3% = 21% max health true damage.

Keep in mind that these numbers require Chogath Darius to have rank 3 ults, minimal requirement of level 16. Fiora has to be level 18 to have her passive be at 4.5%

When the game was over at 27 minutes, Garen was level 15. which means he dealth 833 true damage with a rank 2 ult. Keep in mind I activated my summoner 21 ... didn't help at all.

The following champions deal OP damage in a single attack: JayceKalista = 20% max health magic damage TahmKench = 32% max health magic damage DrMundo = 25% current health magic damage Evelynn = 25% current health magic damage Malzahar = 30% max health magic damage This is not a problem, the defense to this is item 1033

Then you have the ridiculous Garen Jinx ults Garen = 525 + 40% missing health magic damage Not a problem, all you need is item 1033

Jinx = 450 (+100% bonus ad scaling) + 35% missing health physical damage Not a problem, all you need is item 1029

Lastly, you Garen "The Villain Killer" Garen = 525 + 40% missing health TRUE DAMAGE

Absolutely nothing at all that can be done about that unless you happen to be Fiora Nocturne Sivir

6 Comments

El Condor Pasa4 votes

Darius doesn't have to build anything. Since you are already assuming 5 hemorrhage stacks, he is getting 40-200 bonus AD from Noxian Might. At level 16 Darius gains 160 bonus AD.

K541 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused] no

Darius base damage is 300 + .75x Each stack of hemmorhage increases this by 60 + .15x (20%) capping at 5 stacks 300 + .75x (100%)

That is double damage (600 base + 1.5x scaling)

El Condor Pasa1 votes

Thats not what your formula is saying. edit: actually you aren't getting your own math.

600 (assuming he has 5 stacks of hemorrhage) + 1.5x = 833 x = attack damage needed to be built Darius has to build 156 attack damage.

This shows you need 156 bonus AD to make it to 833. Darius gets 160 bonus AD from his passive at level 16 thus he doesn't have to build anything.

K541 votes

OHHHHHH! My math is perfect and I understand it just fine. Just a misunderstanding of what you were saying.

I had never paid any attention at all to Darius' Noxian Might passive. Didn't even know it existed, I only knew about the hemmorhage part, I thought your 40 - 200 reference pertained to hemorrhage, which was already factored.

Now I see that Noxian Might is something totally different. Thank you for that needed info.

Which would make Darius' full stack ult damage 600 + 1.5(200) = 900 TRUE DAMAGE without building any attack damage.

The villain is Amumu Using this match as the example http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2042144396/50791689?tab=overview I had roughly 3500 health Let's say I lose 2200 health, leaving me with 1300 health.

2 Scenarios:

  1. They were in the fight the whole time, their team is dead, if they can take me out, they have a chance when their team respawns.
  2. I TP to enemy Nexus, has 3 hits left, they run up to me and instantly ult, if they kill me, they win because our Nexus is also exposed and their team about to respawn.

Darius1 - He has his 5 stacks and ults me, does 900 true damage, I have 400 health left. My team kills him, I'm still alive, they have no chance.

Garen1 - 40% of 2200 = 880 So you take the base (525) + the 40% missing health (880) = 1405 true damage (105 overkill). He wipes out the rest of my team due to his super tankiness since his W is 30% damage reduction and his team wins.

Darius2 - Runs up and ults. doesn't have any stacks so he does 450 damage. I laugh then dance for about 4 seconds before I finish the Nexus with my 850 health left.

Garen2 - runs up and ults, does 1405 damage, kills me, his team wins.

Minus the overkill, how much bonus AD would Darius need to do 1300 damage to finish me with his 200 passive bonus AD.

600 + 1.5(200 + x) = 1300

Darius would need 267 itemized attack damage to kill me. Basically, he'd be a glass cannon, meaning with both of them at 100% health, Darius would die and Amumu would have about 2000 health left.

It should be noted that no matter how much AP Chogath builds, he'll never come close to doing 1300 true damage.

Jamaree2 votes

You do realize that his ultimate gets to have that advantage of more convenient true damage because he can't choose his target right? In fact, his total damage is actually lower then it was pre rework if you are standing by so much as a minion.

And at the end of the day, all this math means nothing because he still loses to this:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQGOJjbCKFRJRQKmH9gmRDtvLu0DKy8s3X3kz7VmQRXh3MRPCixuYtnuM

ZerglingOne1 votes

I'm going to assume it was level 2 ultimate.

350 + .33x = 833

.33x = 483

x = 1463

So you were missing 1463 HP.

Let's assume level 10-11 at the time meaning your base health was 1440 to 1530 and the SFC added 500 for a total of 1940 to 2030.

2030 -1463 = 567 which means that's how much his ultimate actually did to you. The rest is overkill, meaning the inflated number is pointless.

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