In Regards to Veigar

Elijah Prophet·Jul 18, 2015·4 votes·487 views

I see a lot of people proposing changes to Veigar, based around the fact that his E got 'nerfed'. I didn't start playing Veigar until after the nerf and I tend to do very well with him. You can place the back wall of your E slightly behind your opponent, and if they're quick enough to step forward they are trapped inside for a free Q or W (one of the strongest Ws in the game). Plus, there's another wall in between you and your opponent during that time, so they can't even dash at you. (Unless your laning against a Talon or Zed, in which case you can just place down your E and casually turn around and walk the other way unscathed). I use my Event Horizon to my advantage in several different ways, like zoning with no actual intention of engaging. Try it!

14 Comments

Very Hard EngageJul 18, 20153 votes

brah, you're 5-10 with veigar in ranked matches. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ELIJAH+PROPHET

i hardly think you should be giving advice on how to play veigar effectively.

the best thing i could tell you is players like bjergsen, faker, dabox, scarra, pobelter etc etc, have all stopped playing veigar entirely after patch 5.4, his gutting, when before he was used as a decent counter to a handful of enemy ap mid laners. faker still plays him with little success. the rest gave him up. now what does it say when the best mid laners in the world wont play a champion?

MarthianJul 19, 20152 votes

That korean players have a point when they use Veigar as a support JUST for his instant stun wall.

Veigar's still strong, possibly even more than his previous kit. It's so much easier to farm AP with him now and you can also poke/farm with his Q (vs previously you either poked or farmed AP for mid-late.) He's still a devastating late game mage. His E now has more counterplay for enemies and requires more skill for Veigar to place (predicting where the enemy will go.)

lB2kGRlc8yJul 19, 20153 votes

Explain how relying 100% on enemy mistakes rather than skill landing an awkward ass fence made him better? Don't try to pull the double ap farm argument, because farm veigars were able to pull off the same amount of ap farm before whilst having the ability to reliably poke the enemy back. Not allowing enemies to dash through the cage was a huge improvement I'll concede, but unless there's a Volibear charging the trapped enemy at veigar's side, the enemy will just avoid the stun and kill the veigar. Also, 20% ap ratio nerf on ultimate.... There's no way a person can spin that to be a buff.

MarthianJul 20, 20151 votes

Because League is as much mind games as it is reactions. If they avoid the stun, you just back off like every other champion that misses a crucial skill (Ahri's E, Xerath's E, etc.)

And no Veigars did not pull off the same amount of AP farm as before while being a threat. Old Veigar had nowhere near the same AP potential as the current one. It was pretty rare to break 125 AP on old Veigar, it's very common to hit 225 AP on new veigar (or would rarely hit 1,000 AP late game, but now frequently breaks 1,175 AP mid-late game.)

Or maybe it's just Veigar plays drastically different than his previous kit that some people can't adapt to it. I've been doing very well with the new Veigar despite having no mobility.

lB2kGRlc8yJul 21, 20152 votes

I played passive farm Veigar before the rework, i easily made 280 per game so don't try to preach to me about how it worked. As for the other champions are concerned, landing 30% of their damage wasn't completely dependent on landing the initial stun, so that's what makes it problematic for Veigar. Xerath is an artillery mage, he doesn't need to skim the frontline to throw his cage onto somebody, so the comparison isn't very meaningful. The fact that I still play Veigar the same way as I did gives me a clear perspective on how he's changed. He lost every scrap of dueling potential he had, and the tradeoff was just re-allocating resources to make him seem better. The only legitimate buff he received was the cage stopping dashes. I've played hundreds of games as Veigar since before S1 so don't give me this inexperienced bullshit as if I have no basis. I can still stomp as Veigar too, given the enemy underestimates me and runs into my shit, but when you're dealing with a level headed player who actually knows not to stand in the glowy particles or not to build 100% ap items Veigar is spectacularly mediocre. If more proof is needed tell me why Veigar dropped off almost completely from the competitive scene? His already easily countered kit and abusive laning phase were made even more crippling by adding even more counterplay and giving him damage nerfs as a side.

Very Hard EngageJul 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That korean players have a point when they use Veigar as a support JUST for his instant stun wall.

Veigar's still strong, possibly even more than his previous kit. It's so much easier to farm AP with him now and you can also poke/farm with his Q (vs previously you either poked or farmed AP for mid-late.) He's still a devastating late game mage. His E now has more counterplay for enemies and requires more skill for Veigar to place (predicting where the enemy will go.)

please tell me how veigar harasses his opponent in lane when he stand behind the minions.

please tell me how safe he is in lane from any enemy champions poke

please tell me what happens when he stand in any position of the lane that isn't his side of the lane.

basic things you dont know what happens.

tell me, do you even know what lane pushing is, and how important it is for veigar to manage now?

MarthianJul 20, 20151 votes

There isn't always going to be two minions to block a Q.

It's not like Veigar can't move to dodge skillshots

Never, that's just being stupid. You don't go out ham to poke, you poke when the opportunity pops up. You generally play defensively like Nasus does. E is still a great disengage tool, it just requires more skill (and if someone can't adapt to that, that's the player's fault, not Veigar's.)

Not every mid champion is an amazing pusher. Or can take advantage of a pushed turret (try to leave lane? He'll just line up minions to farm without any threat.)

He's not a early game champion, he's a mid-late game champion.

dr lichdeathJul 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There isn't always going to be two minions to block a Q.

It's not like Veigar can't move to dodge skillshots

Never, that's just being stupid. You don't go out ham to poke, you poke when the opportunity pops up. You generally play defensively like Nasus does. E is still a great disengage tool, it just requires more skill (and if someone can't adapt to that, that's the player's fault, not Veigar's.)

Not every mid champion is an amazing pusher. Or can take advantage of a pushed turret (try to leave lane? He'll just line up minions to farm without any threat.)

He's not a early game champion, he's a mid-late game champion.

true but dont forget that veigar has to farm while playing defensive dodging poke trying to managa mana in any way possible which is extremely hard early and then he also has to manage waveclear so that his double q doesnt push too hard besides that the e might be a good disengage tool but in case you have forgotten veigar needs to farm with his q so he continuously loses mana and the enemy can simply engage on him after hes oom

and every champion that isnt a good pusher has some sort of painfull poke for veigar

his early is so hard and unrewarding that its not even fun to play him early and theres no way veigar can carry unless his team carried early hard

MarthianJul 20, 20151 votes

item 3070 first back and your mana issues are gone. I personally have not had any issues with the lane being pushed by farming with Q or with constant aggro, just keep a distance from the other apc. If the enemy is engaging too much, they will eventually oom (especially if you keep dodging). Ward the bushes like everyone else, and stop spamming abilities too much.

And again DODGE THEIR POKE. You don't need to be in your minion mob to farm. Veigar has counters, everyone does. He won't win every matchup, but neither will everyone else (and if they do win every matchup, either the player is good or that champion needs reworked.)

Being hard and unrewarding isn't fact, it's opinion. Veigar is definitely capable of carrying his team. If your jungler is a competent jungler, you can easily set up ganks for them.

dr lichdeathJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

first back and your mana issues are gone. I personally have not had any issues with the lane being pushed by farming with Q or with constant aggro, just keep a distance from the other apc. If the enemy is engaging too much, they will eventually oom (especially if you keep dodging). Ward the bushes like everyone else, and stop spamming abilities too much.

And again DODGE THEIR POKE. You don't need to be in your minion mob to farm. Veigar has counters, everyone does. He won't win every matchup, but neither will everyone else (and if they do win every matchup, either the player is good or that champion needs reworked.)

Being hard and unrewarding isn't fact, it's opinion. Veigar is definitely capable of carrying his team. If your jungler is a competent jungler, you can easily set up ganks for them.

they aren't gone unless you pure farm but if the enemy actually has better last hitting skills( meaning he last hits them with less than around 80hp) and manages to get the wave to him which isnt all that hard with veigars base dmg (around 100 and rising) and hitting 2 creeps meaning the enemy has 2 less creeps that they can use to push which results in your minions pushing its like you have 5 creeps and the enemy has 4creeps and usually its the melee minions that die so they push

and the only thing i use is q or my e in order not to die and i still go oom during early after all if they do some sort of heavy engage as they easily can because of lower mana costs or just way higher base dmg then you use your e to disengage which means half your mana practiaclly gone after 2 times doing that if you dont e it means they can freely dmg you without being punished meaning you get pushed out of lane very quickly

and dodge the poke sure im doing that but dodging infintite poke aint easy smartass eveyone can dodge 10-20 times and most champions have wat better mana regen stuff or have way less costs so thye can poke a lot more or just stand near and punish you if you even try to farm thats how good players do it

and no he is hard and unrewarding especially till minute 20 because its 20 minutes he can do nothing else but try to farm, dodge poke, manage mana, survive towerdiving ganks if they do that, and who cares if the bush is warded if they are zacs they dont care about that they then push the wave and force you away from the turret or die under it

and you claim that a veigar can easily set up ganks for the jungler but arent you forgetting that you dont have the mana to decently do so?if you set up a gank pre 6 your e will make you already go oom no point for a gank there after 6 the enemy might be somewhere else ganking and you cant leave lane if you dont want to lose cs not to mention after 6 they also have their ult and 9 times out of 10 those ults have way more base dmg so you easily die before killing them because your dmg is crap and cant decently retaliate

and if you say b early then you are just a weirdo as the enemy will be at least a lvl higher than you and have pushed the lane till turret and have backed with more gold and gotten a dmg item while you only have a tear so not the best solution as tear does not give dmg stats

Rıots Bad ClientJul 19, 20153 votes

Imo, Viegers stun was the only thing he had going for him.

No one should has troubles against a Vieg. -Was he picked first? - Pick an Ad mid laner- yas, zed, talong ect. -Were you first pick? - Doesn't matter(high chance you will win) -Jungler is camping your lane? - Get banner of command roam your ass off and watch the lil' shit struggle to the ends of earth with that buffed minion. -Hes farming? - Poke him out, its easy, just walked towards him auto attack him twice, grats you won any trade against him early) -hes actually keeping up in farm under tower? - get zhonyas(hit that golden latex button on his ult(grats, you made the veiger pretty useless) -Lets say you're ziggs, ahri, Tf ect. and he uses his Event Horizon and makes you trapped in his gate (don't panic, the vieger is walking towards you to throw a shit move or 2. remember they are skill shots that take 2 years to actually make its distance so you got plenty of time, just side step. gates down and veiger is in your face he has no means of esc(and his gate is down) TURN on him. -IF he does manage to actually land the stun, you might die- But if you kept him from farm, got a banner of command(I love this item), or any type of MR. You can easily just turn on him and maybe walk out with a kill.

I felt that the nerf to his Stun was the end of him, veiger had so much counter play(items, ad champs, anything), but the nerf to his stun was a whole new level of "counter play", for a champion who had SHIT early game thats easily Dumpster'd early game by sustain, poke, aggressive or anything type of mid laner. It was a lane was like "nice, I can get early kills, Go roam bot lane- mess up their shit, go back mid lane maybe kill him again, then decide if I should farm my lane or just go back to bot".

If you're thinking of playing vieger-Don't. Play Annie. shes like Veiger but reliable. An instant stun that could hit an entire team, with the capabilities to actually 100 to 0 with 2 items(Not including boots). One thing is the difference between annie and Veiger.

Veiger is just a champ you wanna stoke your ego with. "Yea well look how much AP i have, Mmmmmmmmmmmmm"

But yea, I'm actually shit at LOL, do don't take my word for it.... I bet I didn't make much sense, but all I know is veig is trash.

TL;DR Don't play Veigar , instead play Annie

lB2kGRlc8yJul 19, 20153 votes

The only thing i disagree with is stooping to play annie. Veigar can still be fun, but he can no longer be fun solo, his kit works like it used to when the enemy is actually running away, but if the veigar is the only thing chasing and you arent a full ap nidalee without zhonyas, you can easily avoid 2/4 of his skills and use 2/4 of your skills to kill him, cause he's squishy as fuck. The community has thought of countless ways to make his new kit work, but Riot didn't like viable Veigar shutting down LC$ big plays so they did roundabout buffs to bring his winrate up without addressing the issues they made with him. I still try to play him in team builder as a team with good frontliners are complimented greatly by him, but until they restore even a shred of reliability to him he won't be viable in any league above silver, or the wood divisions of the subsequent leagues.

Rıots Bad ClientJul 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The only thing i disagree with is stooping to play annie. Veigar can still be fun, but he can no longer be fun solo, his kit works like it used to when the enemy is actually running away, but if the veigar is the only thing chasing and you arent a full ap nidalee without zhonyas, you can easily avoid 2/4 of his skills and use 2/4 of your skills to kill him, cause he's squishy as fuck. The community has thought of countless ways to make his new kit work, but Riot didn't like viable Veigar shutting down LC$ big plays so they did roundabout buffs to bring his winrate up without addressing the issues they made with him. I still try to play him in team builder as a team with good frontliners are complimented greatly by him, but until they restore even a shred of reliability to him he won't be viable in any league above silver, or the wood divisions of the subsequent leagues.

Veig is just a funner version of Annie, but worse. But I really suggest not playing ranked with the lil guy. as much as I love him- hes just way to easy to counter. They need to buff him, some wheres. any where.