Isn't promotion series a bit redundant?

fr0st2k·Sep 29, 2015·155 votes·5,067 views

Why is it needed?

Get rid of it.

Going from 0 - 100 is enough to warrant a promotion. A 2/3 win AFTER 0-100 serves absolutely no purpose.

79 Comments

Deep Terror NamiSep 29, 201539 votes

The same can be said for demotion. If you make promotion easy, it has to be balanced by easy demotion.

I'm not saying the current system is very good or anything, but every time I see a thread about removing promotions they never mention anything about demotion or LP gains/losses and MMR.

AezanthyaSep 29, 201516 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGvrGkTO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-29T17:22:07.972+0000)

The same can be said for demotion. If you make promotion easy, it has to be balanced by easy demotion.

I'm not saying the current system is very good or anything, but every time I see a thread about removing promotions they never mention anything about demotion or LP gains/losses and MMR.

The old elo system did that. You win, you gain elo, you lose, you lose elo. If you did a 10 win streak and 2 lost... you were still way higher than where you were before those 12 games. Same went for lose streaks.

I dunno why they got rid of it.

MeesterMooSep 29, 20152 votes

The thing is, your MMR stays the exact same. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just pointing that out.

shadecrapperSep 30, 20151 votes

The promo series caps you, if you cant win 2/3 you cant climb. So how does MMR help me here?

Troll for TrumpSep 30, 20152 votes

Might be the same reason they got rid of the old school tribunal..

LegacyDAPSep 29, 201523 votes

I'm okay with being able to lose easily. I rarely hit 0 LP. I almost always hit 100 and float around 80 LP because I lose promos 5 times.

iamthegoatofwarSep 30, 20153 votes

so much this.

XonraSep 30, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGvrGkTO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-29T17:22:07.972+0000)

The same can be said for demotion. If you make promotion easy, it has to be balanced by easy demotion.

I'm not saying the current system is very good or anything, but every time I see a thread about removing promotions they never mention anything about demotion or LP gains/losses and MMR.

If the system worked right, it wouldn't be an issue. You perform, get to 100 lp, you get promoted.

simple

You fall, hit zero. Okay now you can't lose. You lose after zero. you get demoted.

simple.

You hit 100 you deserved the upper spot because you climbed to the top of your current division or whatever you want to call it.

If you hit 0 then you obviously are underperforming and deserve to be demoted lower until you get back to 100 in the lower division and prove you deserve to be back where you were.

The promo games do nothing but force you to play more games for no real reason aside from Riot said so. I mean, the background is the same as it was before the LP system, but they have even labeled the bronze, silver, gold etc in a way that even promotes segregation in the community that wasn't there before. Even bait you with skins that you just won't get unless you hit a certain rank. Doesn't matter if you have Gold 4 MMR if you can't get past Silver 1 because of having to play a best of 5 with strangers.

PunkkeeSep 30, 20152 votes

then add probation along with promotion lose 2/3 games and you get demoted

Noam BraumskySep 30, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGvrGkTO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-29T17:22:07.972+0000)

The same can be said for demotion. If you make promotion easy, it has to be balanced by easy demotion.

I'm not saying the current system is very good or anything, but every time I see a thread about removing promotions they never mention anything about demotion or LP gains/losses and MMR.

We should at least have a demotional series then. It's quite easy to slip down the ladder compared to how hard it is to climb up.

Karn BishopSep 30, 20151 votes

Yes and one step further, if we win 2 out of 3 we get a silver/gold/ect lock on our current ranking that prevents us from dropping or being rechallenged for a demotion series until say 10 losses occur.

Noam BraumskyOct 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGvrGkTO,comment-id=000200040000,timestamp=2015-09-30T10:13:51.125+0000)

Yes and one step further, if we win 2 out of 3 we get a silver/gold/ect lock on our current ranking that prevents us from dropping or being rechallenged for a demotion series until say 10 losses occur.

I don't know about a lock. One could get carried beyond one's skill level from teammates just as easily as getting dragged down by a teammate. That's why you can still be demoted. It's the double standards I hate; hitting 0 or 100 lp should have the same effect on matchups or moving ranks.

ShosukoSep 30, 20151 votes

This is very true. I was S3 and hit my promo maybe 10 times before finally getting through it. Once I got threw it I had a 5 loss streak of horrendous trolls... Back in S3.

Karn BishopSep 30, 20153 votes

The current system has an artificial block on progression called promos combined with an easy to be demoted system for losing a match or two after getting your promos.

I'm not saying promos are evil, im saying unless its a promo from SIlver to GOLD i should just raise and drop divisions depending on my win or loss of a game, alternatively if one constantly promotes to silv 2 then drops back down to silv 3 the system should see this and go HEyyy buddy i'm going to lock you into silver 2 unless your mmr tanks to like silver 5 or something followed by a big fat silver lock in the corner of my silv 2 icon so i know its in effect.

iainB85Sep 30, 20151 votes

I'd love to have just strait MMR again where you can be promoted off of one win/loss depending on your MMR.

I'd also like to see what a lot of other games do to reduce "ladder anxiety" and have rewards be based off of what the players highest MMR was over the season. This reduces a lot of the anxiety of, "I just hit 'x' tier and am too nervous to play because I don't want to lose it".

This kind of system works quite well in a lot of other games I have played.

shadecrapperSep 30, 20151 votes

except when you go to 0 then lose you get demoted, while it takes 2/3 to be promoted.

Deep Terror NamiSep 30, 20151 votes

There's such a thing as demotion shielding.

Virgin RayOct 1, 20151 votes

Well I mean there should be a grace period, except for the fact that it won't be as much games forgiven at 0 LP then last season. Ex- If the grace period was like 10 games, now could be like 5 games forgiven at 0 LP, with the promotions being removed entirely.

Yordle XayahSep 29, 201526 votes

But Rito wants regular players to experiment the excitement of playing a series, just like the pro players!... who of course are in a controlled environment and with a team they've been practicing with for months or even years, so OF COURSE such concept would translate well into Solo Queue!...

... oh

WhereIsMyBeefaloSep 29, 20154 votes

not mentioning all those players in soloQ that have no team and get to hight elo for their own skill...

oh wait

Tails DollSep 30, 20159 votes

You mean the lucky bastards? Because promotions/series are mostly luck based.

StealthWardenSep 29, 201512 votes

Honestly the LP system serves no purpose...i never got the chance to play in the mmr/elo only world, but there is no reason that Tier 3 should have /Next Tier 4 or 5's in his match either on his or the enemy team. The lp system does this, the first guy does well and gains elo, then the other guy goes on a losing streak because of life issues and bad emotional state. Guy 2 gets his shit together and ends up in match with guy 1 who is far below his level of play when he is at his best...this is bullshit. imagine if you are on the JV team and youre doing pretty good, then all of a sudden at the regionals the first team has 1 varsity player...hes 2 years older, bigger, stronger, and has more experience...thats not right. You dont want a college senior playing in your highschool? thats not right, thats not even competition. Wrestlers have weight classes for a reason. this system breaks that a bit too much, and for nothing.

PiVoRxSep 30, 20155 votes

Promos wouldnt be so bad if game would match you with people that are in promos as well.

I can strom through ladder straight to promos but when i hit them, i get like worst of the worst team mates possible like game wants to check your "carry potential".

Its too much luck dependat right now.

sealustSep 29, 20154 votes

Yes. Whenever I get into promos, generally on a win streak. Then lose the promos, win enough games to get into promos, L-W-L ectect. I qualified for my G5 promos too many fucking times.

Archon XSep 29, 20153 votes

you gotta perform bro

if you can't perform, no promotion

kind of like the real world

fr0st2kSep 29, 201521 votes

You already performed. See definition of redundant.

Professor WardSep 29, 20156 votes

{quoted}

You already performed. See definition of redundant.

exactly

NomNomNomNamiSep 30, 20151 votes

Aren't these posts redundant? When Riot has said over and over again already that they are going to change the system for next season.

RISE Shlack123Sep 30, 20153 votes

Spoken by someone who is clearly inexperienced with the "real" world. People get promoted for various reasons other than performance - nepotism, cronyism, doing "favors", good looks, etc.

And League is actually so far beyond fair in its promotion system - the system expects you to wildly outperform the average to move up a division or tier. You can climb with a 50% winrate, but you can't get promoted without a 2/3 or 3/5 winrate in a small timeframe. That's not consistent nor is it fair given the amount of trolls, disconnects, smurfs and boosters we have.

Archon XSep 30, 20152 votes

hahahha aren't you late for your occupy wall street meeting?

RISE Shlack123Sep 30, 20152 votes

You're so creative. When someone doesn't have a response to an argument, they resort to ad hominem attacks.

Archon XSep 30, 20152 votes

ad hominem? you in freshman philosophy at the local community college? enjoy your campus democrats meeting. socialist.

also Trump 2016.

RISE Shlack123Sep 30, 20153 votes

LOL! You stay classy, San Diego! =P

MillForMeSep 30, 20153 votes

I'm not sure a lot of people remember the old system. The old system was much worse than this.

You guys also don't realize that even though you have to win 2/3 or 3/5, you have a 5 game protection period, and have to lose a ton more games to drop from gold to silver.

I'm certain all of you love that you may lose your first few games after winning a promo and still be in your current division, since you can win 2 games, be promoted, then go on a 5 game losing streak, then win a game and still have that promotion.

LeafieSep 29, 20152 votes

Technically it's 3/4 with a mandatory intiial victory.

You have to win a game to get INTO your promotions in the first place.

Kitten of EvilSep 29, 20152 votes

The MMR system just doesn't make sense in general. I can't figure out provisionals (7-3 = Silver 5, 5-5 = Silver 3, 2-8 = Silver 5? OK.) and I don't get why there's a promotion round between, say, Silver 3 and Silver 2. Maybe in high level it makes sense, since the skill levels are substantially different, but at low levels it just means more "must-win" games.

Meanie40Sep 29, 20153 votes

The order where you win your provisional games is very important, as the system adjusts your MMR on the fly. Provisional games (on a fresh account, not an account that has had a division in a previous season) have a "homeguards like" effect attached to them - the first game you play results in a very large elo swing, and the variance diminishes until you finish your provisional games.

For example, Winning the first two games in provisionals of an account that has never played ranked, and then losing the next game, will result in a much higher MMR than losing the first game and winning the next two.

BîjanSep 30, 20152 votes

nobody likes this system but it isnt gonna change cuz why fix something thats broken Irelia

Albedo TabulaSep 30, 20152 votes

Yes please, had the most irritating experience ever in all the years I have played this game last week. 5 times I made it to my promos every time double loss. Yet I'd always get a win or two and go right back into it after and just rinse and repeat all week long.

If you get into the promos that many times in such a short period it should at least just skip you up to the next level imo.

SuicideJSep 30, 20152 votes

I worked my way up to 100 LP in Silver IV from never playing Ranked before and losing my Promos because of people that said "It's just a game". Now I'm 1 loss away from being demoted to Silver V. Thanks Riot. I approve this thread. This whole system can be improved to not punish players that work hard to get better.

AnimationhacSep 30, 20151 votes

Try Gold 1 to Plat 5. So many people will see it and actually say they are going to troll so you won't win. So fun to redo it 5 times before entering because players thought it was funny.

SuicideJOct 1, 20151 votes

I'd be snapshotting the crap out of those players comments and obliterating Riot Support with proof after proof and demand my LP back.

AekoSep 29, 20151 votes

Because during promos, they bump up your mmr to play with some of the higher elo players in your skill area. This is the reason that some players feel like promotions may be harder, i.e. they lose promos more often. It's because you're playing at the higher elo.

BakedLotionSep 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Because during promos, they bump up your mmr to play with some of the higher elo players in your skill area. This is the reason that some players feel like promotions may be harder, i.e. they lose promos more often. It's because you're playing at the higher elo.

Why am i playing against diamonds for my plat promos. And since I won against them, why am I not diamond? It just showed im good enough to win against diamonds. You should be matched against plats to prove you're skilled enough to be PLAT. If they're matching me against diamonds, what are my promos proving? That I can lose or win against diamonds and not the rank im going to?

"lel this guy is losing against diamonds he doesnt deserve plat. " -Rito Games

AekoSep 30, 20152 votes

Because those diamonds that you are playing against are those who have lost so much but have not yet been demoted from diamond. Therefore they are not really playing at a diamond level. You didn't win against pure diamond players. You won against some diamond players most whose mmr are probably quite bad to be matched with you. As you win your mmr gets better and better and the system pits you against better and better players, though this does not necessarily mean that the players you play against are of that elo.

The promos are testing your abilities to beat or play against low mrr diamond ranked players. Not diamond mmr.

Space BumOct 1, 20151 votes

Ever one has losing streaks. It doesn't mean you are on your way out just that you had a bad day maybe/ got unlucky with who your teammates were. So you face that guy that who is on the upswing from a losing streak? Does not seem fair.

AekoOct 1, 20151 votes

I never said it was fair, it is what it is

ShosukoSep 30, 20151 votes

They had to make sure you received at least 3-5 games of trolls before you advance.

1 800 MID LANEOct 1, 20151 votes

Agreed. I've been in the same promotional series from S5-4 now 3 or 4 times. All in the past couple of weeks, too. It's getting old. It does prevent people from getting carried really easily, but it's still annoying as all hell.

GreymooreOct 1, 20151 votes

I think it can be made so that when you reach 100 then you automatically get promoted with any extra LP carrying over to you LP so if you have 90 LP and then gain 23 LP then you will not only be promoted but also start your new rank with 13 LP. For demotion it would be the opposite. Reach 0 LP and get demoted with anything that brings you lower than 0 being subtracted from your LP so if you have 10 LP and get subtracted 23 LP then you will be demoted and have 87 LP.