community: "oh my god riot can we please make ADCs not the only carry role in bot lane?"

Byakuya Kuchiki·Aug 22, 2015·143 votes·6,479 views

riot: sure why not community: OMG FUCK YOU RIOT WHY WE DIDNT WANT THIS

161 Comments

KarKzzAug 23, 201566 votes

community: We want more bot lane diversity.

riot: Okey, let's try something new.

community: OMG, FUCK YOU RIOT, WE ONLY WANT DIVERSITY IN OUR NOT-DIVERSE META

Aatrox HerselfAug 23, 201517 votes

Im really happy because it might mean an Idea me and a friend had last year might work. Yorick and Morde Botlane ghost bros.

RespectPlusAug 23, 20152 votes

Talon/Xin bot lane Hit lvl 3, get first blood

5000000000000000Aug 23, 201515 votes

But a standard Leona+Graves lane can get first blood at lvl 2

DeliothAug 23, 20157 votes

... that's any Leona lane...

Critmaster GarenAug 23, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Talon/Xin bot lane Hit lvl 3, get first blood

something like this always worked. the problem if youre playing without an adc, even going even usually meant a lost game as your team will have a bloody hard time to push turrets and take objectives if you dont manage to outright ace the enemy team.

normally a team without an adc has a 40% win chance right from the start, without even doing anything else than not taking one with them. youre usually gonna win early with a kill lane and lose mid to lategame.

Thunder DreamssAug 23, 20151 votes

There are ways around this. For one thing Talon and Xin are both AD and can push turrets fast, what they lack is an adc's range/safety when doing so. Going with a full dive comp and your whole team can pile up under the enemy turret and kill all resistance, then take the turret with the enemy dead or scattered.

The problem with a non-adc comp is that it requires everyone on the team coordinate better to make up the difference.

Ariel the CruelAug 23, 20152 votes

Or send the ADC somewhere else. Vayne top. Sivir Mid. Quinn jungle. etc.

yay nibbersAug 23, 20154 votes

I prefer Morde and Taric botlane.

Pizza-feet bros

Dextix LTAug 23, 201550 votes

We wanted diversity, not a champion being reworked into someone hes not.

HawkefireAug 23, 201513 votes

I am quite happy for more diversity bot lane. But I honestly dislike that it was at the cost of a champion that was traditionally known for going into a solo lane.

ChargeItDownMidAug 23, 201531 votes

[deleted]

Ariel the CruelAug 23, 201516 votes

OBJECTION! This theory is devastating to my case!

Kuroi86Aug 23, 20152 votes

And no matter what Riot does, someone is going to bitch...

AMYS GRAVEAug 23, 201528 votes

Why did they have to destroy an already established champions identity to do it?

Ariel the CruelAug 23, 20155 votes

Karma Identity really doesn't mean as much as people think.

AMYS GRAVEAug 23, 20152 votes

Karma mains were up in arms over her rework too, and justifiably so imo.

SorgklaanAug 23, 201521 votes

We wanted it to be done by itemization changes, like the rite of ruin in BMB. But instead, mordekaiser has been sacrificed for some experiment.

Flying BuntcakeAug 23, 201511 votes

I'd argue that Mordekaiser's new role in the game is better than what he was before. He feels better and not like an experiment.

agbudarAug 23, 20155 votes

buut... it's gonna get nerfed its simply too easy to roll all over botlane with a morde/voli comp

AsReelAsItGetsAug 23, 20154 votes

I disagree, I went in as Twitch and kick mord's ass but that was only because I had a brand support by my side. the difference was that thanks to brand's Stun is what made the difference and high magic damage.

He can be countered depending on the choices we make.

Critmaster GarenAug 23, 201517 votes

adc and mid make up the largest % base of the players. of course adc are going to complain (lets be honest, theyre always complaining) if someone touches their holy monopoly over bot lane.

its fine for some reason that they can go mid and top and completely shit on certain champions there, but they dont want that bot lane to be touched.

imo the morde rework is interesting and a great first step to break the absolute dominance of adc in terms of objective control. if riot is trying to make adc not 100% necessary for every team and losen up the meta by creating situations where adc dont go bot 100% of the time, theyre doing the right thing.

its ok for adc to go to to other lanes than bot imo, as long as theyre not too opressive and as long as you can also chose to play without them on your team if you want.

DragoonRuinAug 23, 201521 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EELInjr7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-23T00:04:27.108+0000)

adc and mid make up the largest % base of the players. of course adc are going to complain (lets be honest, theyre always complaining) if someone touches their holy monopoly over bot lane.

its fine for some reason that they can go mid and top and completely shit on certain champions there, but they dont want that bot lane to be touched.

imo the morde rework is interesting and a great first step to break the absolute dominance of adc in terms of objective control. if riot is trying to make adc not 100% necessary for every team and losen up the meta by creating situations where adc dont go bot 100% of the time, theyre doing the right thing.

its ok for adc to go to to other lanes than bot imo, as long as theyre not too opressive and as long as you can also chose to play without them on your team if you want.

ADC largest %? What crack are you smoking? Its literally the smallest champion base to play,

Team builder's are always waiting on Support and ADC to start,

And i very rarely EVER have problems getting ADC in ranked, it's about as much taboo as Support.

maikokkAug 23, 201511 votes

its a recent development. IMO nobody ever fell in love with ADC's, they just liked carrying. now that ADC's dont carry as hard... time to find a new position/meta

Solidair3Aug 23, 20152 votes

Normally I would agree, but I, in my games at least, have been getting a LOT of adc people (mainly playing Vayne. Always Vayne.)

DragoonRuinAug 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Normally I would agree, but I, in my games at least, have been getting a LOT of adc people (mainly playing Vayne. Always Vayne.)

Ughh, I hate Vayne. Refuse to play her. I've always mained Miss Fortune, but mix it up with Tristana, Corki, and Jinx occasionally.

SpecterVonBarenAug 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ughh, I hate Vayne. Refuse to play her. I've always mained Miss Fortune, but mix it up with Tristana, Corki, and Jinx occasionally.

You. I like you.

Rabid HuskyAug 23, 20152 votes

hi adc main here now you do know adc is actually just as if not more open than support right? so for one you don't know what you're even talking about, and two i don't see anyone who adcs regularly complaining about the recent change i actually see more supports complain about this change since they now gotta work harder and third where you gettin off on talkin smack on adcs you even know what goes on?

if your whole game and team depended on how you and someone else worked together but it ends up being a 3 v 1 you would get a bit mad at them to but nah its always the adcs fault the support didn't use that heal or that cc to help run away and when supports complain its justified since they get abused don't they, oh poor supports with all that utility and working together and actually having to sit back a bit and actually play.

bottom line is bot lanes about team work, one person fails the lane fails, supports help make plays with utility and try to keep both players alive while carrys bring damage. adcs are not the drunken step dads and dictators people like you say we are, if mord wants to go bot and deal with supports standing at tower then yell why they left tower less than 3 mins in and the minion wave is fighting in the middle of lane or the selfish supports that take the kills and say it's cuz they hate you for being the carry cuz they hate carrys.

every lane can be toxic supports can be just as bad as adcs if not worse since again 3 v 1 which no other lane has to deal with. imagine if you would jungle camped your lane but your jungle told you to get good, they hated you because you're a certain character, the lane,or your position then they walk into lane and take the kill, give a double by going in saying you both got it then dieing first, or save their utility to save themselves even tho they had the ability to keep you both from getting killed. you would get pretty upset at them wouldn't you

The EcdysiastAug 23, 201513 votes

Um... No.

The backlash isn't from the fact a fighter can go bot lane now.

It's from the fact they changed a burst mage into a tanky fighter into a short-range, no CC, no escape ADC replacement who needs a heavy CC support to work.

They ruined Mordekaiser way past what they'd already done. No one's mad they put a fighter in bot lane. We're mad it was a champion they keep bringing to the chopping block and butchering when what he really needs is a rework of Sion's level.

Big LincolnAug 23, 201512 votes

Of course I want diversity, I'm sick of supporting Vayne every single time I'm last pick

But I don't want it at the expense of Mordekaiser, a champion that I greatly enjoyed in top and mid much more. A new champion would have been better.

Critmaster GarenAug 23, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EELInjr7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-23T00:25:43.198+0000)

Of course I want diversity, I'm sick of supporting every single time I'm last pick

But I don't want it at the expense of Mordekaiser, a champion that I greatly enjoyed in top and mid much more. A new champion would have been better.

considering enslaving dragon to siege turrets is a large part of his kit now, it kindof made sense to put him in bot lane, where he has the easiest access to it.

imo it worked out fine. bot lane morde looks strong and fun.

Big LincolnAug 23, 20155 votes

there's a pretty simple solution, get rid of the dragon because it's one of the worst design choices i've ever seen. you can't balance it.

it's not fun, i haven't had fun in the ~3 weeks i've been playing this rework

Rinky DinkyAug 23, 20153 votes

Then find someone else to play

I liked him before

and I fucking love him now

Big LincolnAug 23, 20153 votes

CaythelesAug 23, 20153 votes

Then deal with it B}

Big LincolnAug 23, 20158 votes

i'm allowed to voice my dissatisfaction

Pool Party NasusAug 23, 201511 votes

I'm just gonna repost the comment I made to other people on a Mordekaiser thread :

Let's talk milkshakes. Do you like milkshakes ? I guess you like milkshakes, but rarely order one.

You're at Starcall, your favorite coffee shop that also serves milkshakes. There's this milkshake you love. It has everything you need : burst damage, sustained damage, tankyness, a mechanically easy kit. It also comes in METAL with spikes and suffering and pain and agony. HOW BADASS RIGHT ?

This milkshake is good. You keep ordering it. It tastes good. Maybe the spikes are a bit tough but heh, you got used to it.

Now there this Starcall's manager that decides that this milkshake isn't good enough. The thing is, all he ever did was some ridiculous iced coffees with an insane amount of toppings (cherries, chocolate cake, a lantern, a giant tornado...) You start freaking out. WHY ? Why would they change your favorite milkshake's recipe ?

You wait to see what's going to happen.

This manager completely changes your milkshake. He removes all the core ingredients and add some really tasteless things. He also adds a little piece of sugar with "friendship is magic" written on it. And on top of that, whenever you order one, you HAVE to buy another milkshake with it, which means you pay twice what you used to ! That's insane !

So you go to him, and ask why he didn't simply create a new milkshake for all his experimental needs. He completely ignores you. You yell, shout, punch him in the nuts try to get his attention. But he acts like you don't even exist...

In the end, you're standing in the coffee shop with a lot of people who are all hating this new milkshake and want their old recipe back, with the manager completely disregarding the entire fanbase of the old milkshake.

Now you understand what Mordekaiser mains feel like !

PS : That might have been too subtle, but the milkshake is mordekaiser

Nine RavensAug 23, 20159 votes

The issue is that as an existing champion, players were previously invested in Mordekaiser. But he was generally a mid or top laner, and I would expect that most players who main him or play him frequently main one of those lanes as well, and many will not be interested in playing him bot lane. So there's naturally a strong negative reaction because Riot is taking away something they have invested a lot into (though Riot has said they want to keep his solo laning viable.)

Additionally, since he's not a marksman, it's unlikely that a lot of marksman mains will want to play Mordekaiser either. The group he might appeal the most to is those who like running double-bruiser or the like bot lane, but they seem to be pretty small at the moment. Hopefully he doesn't end up without a playerbase due to his currently unique situation in bot lane.

LearndingAug 23, 20159 votes

This doesn't even make sense.

It's one thing to make a champion flexible enough to be able to play bot, but to ruin the integrity of a champion and force it into a lane is not diversity.

Byakuya KuchikiAug 23, 20152 votes

its diversity in the lane he goes to because hes completely different from the rest of the ones in that lane.

LearndingAug 23, 20154 votes

{quoted}

its diversity in the lane he goes to because hes completely different from the rest of the ones in that lane.

That still makes absolutely no sense. Forcing a champion from a specific role to another is not diversity, it's fucking laziness. Instead of making a balanced, easy champion, flexible enough to compete in more than 1 lane Riot makes overloaded champions that they KNOW will be nerfed.

RottedApplesAug 23, 20158 votes

it's not that we didn't want a non-adc in bot lane. It's that the way they did it was stupid. Azir would probably be a great replacement adc. Cass at the very least was before she got reworked, but I have no experience with her now. Most mages could probably work but basically anything that doesn't really have burst but rather has a ton of dmg's to do over time and scales very well.

VekknaAug 24, 20152 votes

Champs other than Mordekaiser seem like they would have been a more natural fit for this kind of transition. For example:

Teemo Can chunk towers with AP-based on-hit items

Diana Good candidate for AA-based bot build due to shield and passive

Cassiopeia Fits meta of immobile hypercarry, but would need a way out of poison requirement and need some turret damage

Yasuo Has shield and poke protection but would need mobility adjustment

Ekko See above

Elise Great candidate since turret damage as spider scales very well with AP and ulti rank into late game. Would need burst nerf.

TwistedFate Another natural AP fit that would only need buff to AA builds

Malzahar Could be an interesting candidate with AD/ASPD builds if voidlings could be summoned by X number of AAs.

Loken StoneheartAug 23, 20157 votes

I think the community is mad because they turned an already existing champion with a different established role into a "new" ADC.

KatCraftAug 23, 20156 votes

We want more diversity for adc's, not remove the role altogether mate. If mid laners got replaced with tanks, do you think mid mains would be happy with that?

DurzakaAug 23, 20156 votes

Maybe because it involved changing a very old already very well established champion to do it?

But no, keep fishing, go ahead.

Penta PenguinAug 23, 20154 votes

Pigeon-holing champions into roles is not a legitimate meta-shift... Morde is the one champion in the game that is "supposed to go bot-lane carry", 99.9% of games are still ADCs bottom.

Why even bother posting this blatant crap

Ariel the CruelAug 23, 20151 votes

Pigeon-holing champions into roles is not a legitimate meta-shift

[supports}

Stars ShaperAug 23, 20154 votes

Let me get straight to you.

Mordekaiser implementation of this kind of balance is totally WRONG!

Why? Because the Duo lane goodies have been forced into his kit while ultranerfing his solo abilities and because all his success comes from landing his 3rd melee strike which causes lots of lots of lots of damage making it either toxic if easy to land or useless if hard to land.