Can we talk about ashe for a second?

Pyrite Hank·11/20/2014, 1:59:46 AM·10 votes·2,866 views

Ashe is completely and uterly obsolete, and before you pretend to know what you're talking about and throw out the ranged initiate card let me explain my point. Base AD: 46.3 (+2.85) Base Movespeed: 325 Slow: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35% (based on frost shot) Ashe deals the least damage out of all the adcs, has the lowest base movespeed in the game tied with other champions, and has slows which would bring a regular champions speed roughly down to hers. She has a horrible lane, doing very little damage and having the siliest poke of all adcs, she has no mobility, can't kite due to her movespeed, and her lategame damage is ok, but let's be real, she can't reposition like most other adcs, no movespeed boosts like jinx,draven, or lucian, and her ult moves slower than a jinx/draven/ezreal ult and is only good for its stun. She may be ok in the end if you just look at her as a champion in Lol, but is horrible if you bring in literally every other adc into the picture, and downright stops existing if you look at every single champion's kit. Riot, when i first saw ashe, i though an agile, mobile archer who would dash through the woods quickly shooting down targets with high precision, not the slowest champion in the game, and can we talk about how her passive requires her to not be an adc for 3 seconds in exchange for a single crit?!? "But her permaslow" But movespeed and gap closers, adcss aren't tanks, jax tryndamere or yi jumps on you, you're dead. if you disagree name one adc who ashe can outperform and i'll show you exact stats, specs, abilities, and even links to prove how they outperform ashe. Long story short ashe needs a buff and i'd love to see her playable again, my suggestion, Base 360 movespeed with same weak base AD, and a passive that makes every 3rd auto attack a guarenteed crit, then we'd definitely see some badass archer action coming from ashe.

30 Comments

Solidair311/20/2014, 2:31:17 AM7 votes

you want 360 MS on a ranged carry with a spammable slow? Are you a crazy person?

I don't disagree that she could use some love, but that is a bit much.

JustMyBassCannon11/20/2014, 9:27:56 AM5 votes

and has slows which would bring a regular champions speed roughly down to hers.

A 15% slow means that someone needs ~382 MS to be moving at the same speed as Ashe without boots (325). At 35%, they need 500 MS to match with Ashe. Without Boots.

I'm not saying Ashe is fine, but do not pull this shit out of your ass. Do your research before opening your mouth.

MattAkhavan11/20/2014, 9:20:46 AM3 votes

Ashe is a hyper carry. She provides a shit ton of utility to a team and shines in her own way. The could definitely use some tweaking, but overall I think she isn't too far off from the mark.

JustGotFired11/20/2014, 3:25:27 AM2 votes

Ashe was my first champion, I love her.

Hawnda11/20/2014, 3:51:30 AM2 votes

A bit of buffs and changes to her kit: Bunch of this could definitely change though.

What changes:

Avarosa's Bow (Innate) | Frost Shot (Q) is now implemented into a third hit slow passive procced by basic attacks and spells (similar to Vayne but can affect multiple targets at once) Steady Shot (Q) | Resets and doubles crit chance of her next basic attack This change help Ashe catch up to the damage of other ADCs through the help of her new Q which resets her auto attack. Volley (W) | Mostly kept the same, slow is removed but landing volley contributes to her passive Hawkshot (E) | Added a reveal to detected enemies, movement boost to Ashe and allies when moving away from revealed champions Enchanted Arrow (R) | Kept the same

DREEZY56211/20/2014, 7:17:36 AM2 votes

ashe is lucians biggest counter right now. she is totally fine

Idroold11/20/2014, 8:08:41 AM2 votes

that is why she is in 450 IP dude

Jungle Lux God11/20/2014, 6:38:51 PM2 votes

Every third attack a guaranteed crit would make her stupidly overpowered. It's like Vayne Silver Bolts that you don't need to stack onto a single target but deals much greater damage.

Like, Ashe literally would be able to walk into lane, auto attack minions twice, and then can zone out her opponents out of CS just by threatening to crit them. She would push EVERY SINGLE ADC out of lane, and she has more utility than any other ADC.

Also, 360 base movement speed is unheard of in league of legends, with the next highest being on melee champs Master Yi and Pantheon, and the highest ranged being on champs like Brand and Veigar at 340. Combined with her range (600, second highest base range for ADC's behind Caitlyn), there would be no ADC other than Ashe being played if she wasn't banned, and Ashe would always be banned. You remember old Kassadin before his rework? She would make Kass's ban rate look low, no contest.

Butthurt11/20/2014, 9:02:53 AM2 votes

I completely agree, funny enough Kalista kind of outdoes what ashe does. SURE, Ashe has the global stun but who cares? Landing that requires precision timing and a lot of luck anyway. Meanwhile Kalista has unlimited mobility, an almost permaslow that deals huge amounts of damage, poke and a superior W (that has an amazing passive).

I understand Riot was trying to create someone to compete with Lucian and Tristana but Kalista just makes the mediocre ADCs even worse. There's little to no reason to pick Varus or Ashe if you want to play to win. Ashe needs a rework of her passive, Q and E abilities. I don't care if her permaslow gets nerfed, put it on to her passive or something. Give her Q a real ability, give her E something actually useful as well. Plus that AP ratio on her ultimate needs to go, or give it the new riot balance treatement and make it like 10% of their max HP or something. Since that's what Riot seems to put on everything these days.

Le illustrious11/20/2014, 2:59:46 AM2 votes

I think they should either

Fix her passive - not attacking to stack passive = missing cs = wtf Give her another attack ability (not counting ult) Ashe is only adc with 1 attack ability pre ult. ◾ Ashe -1 ◾ Caitlyn -3 ◾ Corki - 3 ◾ Draven - 2 ◾ Ezreal - 3 ◾ Graves - 2 ◾ Jinx - 2 ◾ Kog'Maw - 2 ◾ Lucian -2 ◾ Miss Fortune - 2 ◾ Quinn - 2 ◾ Sivir - 2 ◾ Tristana - 2 ◾ Twitch - 2 ◾ Urgot - 2 ◾ Varus - 2 ◾ Vayne - 2

ccseancc14311/21/2014, 2:16:04 AM1 votes

Ashe+furor enchantment. Literally can't catch her. Trust I have tried.

Nick Valentine11/20/2014, 3:34:11 AM1 votes

The only real reason Ashe exists and is played is because sometimes your team derps and the hardest CC they brought was a Karma tether and you're like damn so you use her arrow.

Saianna11/20/2014, 1:56:17 PM1 votes

Ashe is perfect example of how old RADCs looked like. Currently everything shifted to FASTER STRONGER MOAR PERKS PER ABILITY!

What would i suggest?

  1. Allow Ashes volley to deal higher damage to targets depending on number of arrows that hit. For example +10-15% more dmg per arrow.
  2. Add 0.25 ap ratio on volley. This will NOT change her ADC way of playing. It will allow for more different ways of playing.
  3. Add 0.5 of total AD ratio to her R and increase AP ratio to 2.0.

Why so many Ap+? Simple: 99.9% players build her as AD, but it wouldn't hurt to allow her build to follow other routes that AD.

HydraVenom11/20/2014, 2:24:23 PM1 votes

Yet, my ashes main base is 82.5, trolol

Hayaishi11/20/2014, 2:43:32 PM1 votes

Ashe works fine for what she's meant to do. You go around buffing stuff she's not meant to have then you make her overpowered.

Riot isn't looking to rework her unless it comes to the point where she cant do what she's meant to.

Also Ashe outperforms most of the ADCs in soloq.

Eawaf11/20/2014, 4:28:10 PM1 votes

Ashe is fine just the way she is. @OP. I'd be willing to listen to a tweak here or there to her base stats or abilities, but her overall kit is fine and is unique in many ways.

It is what it is. All of the things you said about her negatively have merit. However, that is the way she was designed. Purposely designed. Ashe is a marksman/utility/support champ, and it shows in every one of her abilities.

Her Q is the best cc of any marksman in the game. No other marksman boasts a permanent cc ability on its AA

Her W is a wave-clear +damage ability that is easy to land and on a super low cool-down.

Her E is a almost 1/2 the map reveal from any position in any situation. On top of that the passive that increases her gold generation.

And then her R. A ranged Global ult that stuns and AOE slows anyone around the person hit.

If this doesn't scream utility i don't know what does. And that's just it. Ashe has so much utility built into her kit that she HAS to sacrifice damage or she would be overpowered. Champion balance is not done in a vacuum. The game is intended to be played with teammates. Rito does not balance each champ solely on lining them up 1v1 and seeing who wins.

Synergy is very important when picking ashe. Because damage is sacrificed for utility when you pick ashe for the adc role, you must make up that damage in another champion on your team. Instead of picking that shen top or Maokai top, maybe Riven or Darius would be more appropriate for the team comp.

I play ashe more in the Support role then adc, which is funny because in that role her passive is absolutely fine. She can excel in this role because of the way her kit was designed, she's a very versatile champion.

Pikacheww11/20/2014, 4:38:18 PM1 votes

Ashe works well against uncoordinated teams, as proven by her good solo queue win-rate. Her ult is one of the most powerful in the game.

Tavish11/20/2014, 5:58:08 PM1 votes

plus her ulti scales on AP right? Seems very meh to me. I think she needs some love, or maybe even a slight rework.

LagForAll11/20/2014, 6:44:09 PM1 votes

well, you have your point, I think they should do something about ashe at least give her a chance to protect herself

littleblupenguin11/20/2014, 2:26:30 AM1 votes

For some reason, I do better with Ashe than any other ADC... Ult almost always = a kill, and the permaslow is really good to keep someone from getting away, even if it doesn't work to keep them from getting to you. It's the Ashe paradox.