This champion is just too OP

Baunjo·Dec 16, 2015·23 votes·6,838 views

Honestly, I find some abilities of champions to be the most toxic and broken shit ever. But I do not let that keep me from seeing past that one thing in their kits and realizing they do have weakness. Please readers do the same, I am sick of seeing posts of " tunnel visioned " people who believe these champions cannot be beaten.

And we know an " OP " champion can be beaten. Otherwise they would have 100% win rates... Just stop using champion stats and current balance to excuse you not understanding how to play the game well.

66 Comments

RiotRiot WhiskiesDec 16, 201521 votes

Appreciate your sentiment, Baunjo and FatTaco!

Rioters spend a lot of time working on balance and fairness throughout League of Legends, and we always do our best to release new/reworked champions after substantial testing. But of course there will always be players who come across stuff we hadn't seen or anticipated, with a fresh perspective depending on the specific situations they find themselves in during gameplay.

It's our community of awesome players that helps us figure out what needs to be tweaked, what we do right, what could be better, etc. When we read posts, it lets us know that there actually may be an issue that is worth looking in to.

Chaotic SageDec 16, 20151 votes

If you don't mind my asking, just out of curiosity, which team are you a part of at Riot?

RiotRiot WhiskiesDec 16, 201518 votes

Don't mind at all! I work with the Insights Tech team. Yay data nerds! ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

AkeneroDec 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Don't mind at all! I work with the Insights Tech team. Yay data nerds! ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

TAKE ME WITH YOUUUUU

PDE5 InhibitorsDec 17, 20151 votes

Tip: if you put your cursor over their name, it usually tells you what they do.

Pika310Dec 16, 20153 votes

This is very hard to believe. You claim the "balance" team works on balance and fairness; listens to what we say; and actually tests stuff, but time after time after time this has not been the case.

Balance? More often than not they only make biased changes or nerf solely based on winrates.

Listen? I've not seen this occur once in the past year. Meddler, Fearless, Repertoir all blatantly speak in direct contradiction to what players tell them, they don't hear a single word we say. Hard as it is to say as much as I hate him, Jag at least took a moment to hear our words and start a discussion before turning to the same condescension as his colleagues.

As a general rule though, "balance" employees almost never even bother communicating.

Testing? No, I'm fairly certain they throw darts at a wall and then say, "Job well done." Then spend the remaining 7 hours of the workday playing ARAM.

RiotRiot WhiskiesDec 17, 201512 votes

Friends,

I think it's important to remember that Rioters are mere humans who are doing their best to cater to a large community. So even if you may not see immediate changes where you'd most appreciate them personally, we are always working towards a better experience for our players.

While I may have friends on the Gameplay teams, I do not currently work closely with that discipline and do not have a ton of insight into what exactly they always do with player feedback etc. But I can firmly and confidently state that we are passionate about what we do, and our actions are never solely dependent on a single stat [such as winrate]. As part of the Data team, I like to remind our colleagues to be data-informed, as opposed to simply data-driven. Gaming is important to us, and as gamers, we encourage each other to remember to think like a player, and so oftentimes sentiment and instinct will play a role in our decisions as well as research and data.

Hope that made sense to you guys at least a little bit XD

4NoxiousHoursDec 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Friends,

I think it's important to remember that Rioters are mere humans who are doing their best to cater to a large community. So even if you may not see immediate changes where you'd most appreciate them personally, we are always working towards a better experience for our players.

While I may have friends on the Gameplay teams, I do not currently work closely with that discipline and do not have a ton of insight into what exactly they always do with player feedback etc. But I can firmly and confidently state that we are passionate about what we do, and our actions are never solely dependent on a single stat [such as winrate]. As part of the Data team, I like to remind our colleagues to be data-informed, as opposed to simply data-driven. Gaming is important to us, and as gamers, we encourage each other to remember to think like a player, and so oftentimes sentiment and instinct will play a role in our decisions as well as research and data.

Hope that made sense to you guys at least a little bit XD

they killed Cassiopeia and left her to dust how is that "better" .... :/

FrickendaChickenDec 17, 20151 votes

Cassiopeia is not dead, she's much harder to play, becoming a kite mage with a strong late game. She's just unpopular with the meta, most mages are atm because of this "quick" meta. Mages stall things too long to make it a "quick" meta.

Earl EulrichDec 17, 20154 votes

she´s actually really strong, but she´s not the dot-poison-mage she´s supposed to be for about every Cassio player out there - that´s the problem here (same for Karma and recent poppy changes) - strength/viablity is not always a primary factor to play/like a Champion.

DracosKasuDec 17, 20151 votes

Personnally, Cass isn't at her best mostly because the meta is too fast. What did you expect from a poison mage type? High burst DoTing that will be broken if it is the case. As far I can see, she can be usefull top lane because of most of the player use melee champ and when they CS you can actually punish it.

SpecterVonBarenDec 17, 20152 votes

I think he's referring to her rework destroying her identity, not whether she's strong.

Krys StarDec 17, 20152 votes

You forget Riot made changes to Garen and Skarner based on community feedback that they would be too weak. Then they came out ridiculously strong. Same case with Darius, too. People whined he was underpowered, Riot buffed him, and he came out oppressive and extremely anti-fun. Riot was pretty open about their regrets to listening to community feedback.

Vistha KaiDec 17, 20151 votes

Wasn't Darius at like 40% winrate before the buff, though?

JARmatesDec 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Appreciate your sentiment, Baunjo and FatTaco!

Rioters spend a lot of time working on balance and fairness throughout League of Legends, and we always do our best to release new/reworked champions after substantial testing. But of course there will always be players who come across stuff we hadn't seen or anticipated, with a fresh perspective depending on the specific situations they find themselves in during gameplay.

It's our community of awesome players that helps us figure out what needs to be tweaked, what we do right, what could be better, etc. When we read posts, it lets us know that there actually may be an issue that is worth looking in to.

Then buff leblanc for goodness sake. Stop lying, you dont' care about balance. ADC and bruiser reign supreme while you nerf AP and tank item. You know what the saddest experience I ever had in league? When shen was so nerf he die to SONA 1 vs 1.

BloodStoneDec 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then buff leblanc for goodness sake. Stop lying, you dont' care about balance. ADC and bruiser reign supreme while you nerf AP and tank item. You know what the saddest experience I ever had in league? When shen was so nerf he die to SONA 1 vs 1.

Relax, Riot Employees spend a lot of time to balance the game. Instead of complaining why don't you be proactive and have tangibles for them to work on or join the PBE community to help out. Complaining is useless. Do something.

JARmatesDec 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Relax, Riot Employees spend a lot of time to balance the game. Instead of complaining why don't you be proactive and have tangibles for them to work on or join the PBE community to help out. Complaining is useless. Do something.

How do I join the PBE community?

Subject 5Dec 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

How do I join the PBE community?

Don't, they do not listen to any feedback on PBE. That is why preseason is this bad atm.

Edit

Unless if you want to try out skins.

JARmatesDec 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E3vI0L0d,comment-id=00030002000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-16T23:36:07.959+0000)

Don't, they do not listen to any feedback on PBE. That is why preseason is this bad atm.

Edit

Unless if you want to try out skins.

Any new Leblanc skin?

Subject 5Dec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Any new Leblanc skin?

Not any that I am aware of

YorukinDec 17, 20152 votes

Correction: they do not listen to any balance-related feedback on the PBE. The reason is that doing so tends to release monstrosities like Skarner's Juggernaut rework.

FrickendaChickenDec 17, 20151 votes

Preseason is "bad" atm because ALL preseasons have been bad because MAJOR changes are being made in a VERY SHORT timespan. Things need to settle, things change every patch. One champ can be too strong one patch then not strong enough the next, then be perfect the next patch, then one item ruins them again! It's how the preseason works! It isn't supposed to be perfect, hence why worlds ends before it, why ranked doesn't matter in it, why there's so many changes, it's a segway, not the main event.

Vistha KaiDec 17, 20151 votes

Out of all preseasons I've been a part of, this is the first that made me rage quit the game for a full month.

I agree changes can be perceived as "bad", but there's a limit to that too.

FrickendaChickenDec 17, 20151 votes

I also think you have to give a bit of leniency with that limit because of how drastic the changes are. Adcs have had major problems for a long time. A simple tank being added to the game could make a couple of adcs worthless for a long while. So changing this whole layout will take a lot to make "right". So I agree with you, this has been more rough then quite a while, but I just ask you to be patient for things to work out and properly align themselves.

Vistha KaiDec 17, 20151 votes

How does buffing nearly all ADCs to being better than any other class qualify as fixing their problems?

Mages got a shaft. Tanks I believe got too. Played Zed once or twice and it was so funny I quit after 10 minutes of the game.

FrickendaChickenDec 17, 20152 votes

Can I ask you, as a Rioter, to bring to light the idea to other Rioters to start offering "corrections" to people who believe a champion is op by showing to light what the intended weaknesses of the champ in question. I'd recommend not putting it in a "you're wrong, we're right" format, but just as a suggestion saying "This is what we planned for this champ and if it ever truly comes into question that this doesn't exist or is too weak we will fix it when we can." Thank you for listening

SymbolicFearDec 17, 20151 votes

I have a question, is Riot trying to increase the power level of champions all around?

SymbolicFearDec 17, 20151 votes

I have a question, is Riot trying to increase the power level of champions all around? Also is there any work planned to be done for Nasus? I feel like he has no real role in the game besides the afk farmer...

manbearswineDec 16, 20155 votes

Can be beaten doesn't make a champion balanced,and him having a weakness doesn't mean he can't easily go around it.

BaunjoDec 17, 20151 votes

So am I understanding that you mean champions need to have 100% sure fire ways to deal with all of their kit? That sounds stupid to me.

manbearswineDec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So am I understanding that you mean champions need to have 100% sure fire ways to deal with all of their kit? That sounds stupid to me.

Well some do,not that that's necessarily good(and with the way riot is treating it,generally bad,at least for the champion himself),but I digress.

It means that having a weakness(especially for those who have ways to get around it) doesn't make the champion not op.

BaunjoDec 17, 20151 votes

So what are you getting at here if I might ask?

manbearswineDec 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So what are you getting at here if I might ask?

General disagreement with the OP.

An overpowered champion doesn't guarantee a win,it guarantees an advantage,same as an underpowered champion doesn't guarantee a loss,it's essentially playing with a handicap,having a counter doesn't make you balanced either,and finally,being weak on some regards doesn't mean you have weaknesses(As some champions can easily get around their weaknesses and force a scenario where they are strong in).

BaunjoDec 20, 20151 votes

All of these things are overcome by simply getting good. Really bad players can make OP champs look like total trash, and amazing players can make ADC Ahri look like it should be meta. Honestly, there will never be a full state of balance. There will be times when champions faceroll, and there will be times when those same champions are nearly useless. What will make you better as a player is finding how you can overcome these things, complaining about champions is the opposite of help.

manbearswineDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All of these things are overcome by simply getting good. Really bad players can make OP champs look like total trash,

And what happen when the player isn't really bad? What happens if he knows what he is doing?

and amazing players can make ADC Ahri look like it should be meta.

No,that's not how it works,a player out of his league can make bad things look good,a gold in bronze can make anything look good,that does not making the gold an "amazing player".

Honestly, there will never be a full state of balance.

It's something to strive towards,not just dismiss,that's how you put games into the trash can.

There will be times when champions faceroll, and there will be times when those same champions are nearly useless.

Tell that to thresh,or ahri,or lee sin. Sure some champions vary in power(unless they are thresh),but some are consistently stronger,as riot is playing favorites.

What will make you better as a player is finding how you can overcome these things, complaining about champions is the opposite of help.

Because generally the best solution to overpowered champion is: "just pick it yourself"(this is exactly how the competitive scene deals with them,and they are the best players this game has to offer),but what happens if that champion is not in your role/you don't enjoy playing it/you don't feel like hopping from fotm to fotm all the time?

You either ban it,constantly pick it,you stop playing,or you complain about it,and since all but the latter option are problematic gameplay wise,the complaints are justified(if the champion is indeed op).

Subject 5Dec 16, 20155 votes

Can be beaten if not 100% winrate

Kek

This logic is like saying Yemen could beat United States in an all out war. I mean they COULD win. They COULD pull a vietnam. But then again most of the time they will be getting stomped out for the fancy tanks and aircrafts of the superior nation. The entire winrate thing is just total horse shit. Heimer had a top winrate for a long time, nobody said anything about it. Then suddenly Janna out of nowhere hits a higher than normal and people go insane. Like holy shit mang, bias or nah?

BaunjoDec 17, 20151 votes

That is a statistical way of saying if a champion could truly never be beaten, they would maintain a 100% win rate. I did not expect someone to have a problem with this xD

HayRossDec 16, 20154 votes

I thought I was going to see a John Cena joke...

40Grit JMcAfreakDec 17, 20151 votes

Aww, now I'm disappointed that it wasn't a John Cena joke...

MohawkBirdDec 17, 20153 votes

It's very obvious that OP champs can be beaten, but the fact is that they are simply harder to beat than most other champions. That is what makes them OP. When people refer to something as OP they don't mean that it is 100% unbeatable.

DarkvaineDec 17, 20152 votes

The thing that i hate seen most is those kind of post, if you are trying to beat a teemo with a trundle or garen, you are going to have a hard time, if you pick a riven into garen or malphite, you are going to have a hard time. like cmon ppl, the game is balance, is just people need to learn match making, you rarely see high elo players complaining like this. learn how to counter pick.

Photos of GhostsDec 17, 20152 votes

Blind pick is the main gamemode

DarkvaineDec 17, 20151 votes

you still have items that counter champs. silver slash makes malzahar, ww and any other hard CC useless making the champs also near useless.

Photos of GhostsDec 18, 20151 votes

If you believe Malzahar's ult is a fundamental part of his kit, you're going to have a bad time™

BaunjoDec 20, 20151 votes

Riot is not gonna change around champions to fit blind pick EVER. I'm sorry, but you have no valid argument in saying that blind pick is the main gamemode

CalabokDec 16, 20151 votes

So, care to say which one?

Chaotic SageDec 16, 20156 votes

...why would he say which one? The champion(s) he doesn't like isn't relevant to this post.

BaunjoDec 17, 20151 votes

Im not talking about any specifically. This was an anti " This champion is just broken " post

Sythriel DrakenDec 16, 20151 votes

considering Poppy was just reworked to remove her old ult, I think Tryndamere should be reworked as well. while under his ult, he can kill a tower without fear of dying, does full damage while under it's effect, has it on a minute timer, can pop it while under the effects of CC... it's just not fun with the current mastery/item combination.

BaunjoDec 17, 20152 votes

The only thing that benefits him now is that crit mastery, the items have not changed how he builds 1 bit. Tryndamere is still super easy to kite until his ult is down