besides the ones currently listed, who do you think needs a rework?

marpatt11·Jun 23, 2017·11 votes·2,202 views

title says it all

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Edit: quick side note, im gonna mention the ones that I see the most so far in no order,

78 Comments

MarshbouyJun 23, 201716 votes

Ryze It's gonna happen. This rework didn't fix much and now he's just trash tier unless you are incredibly good at him.

AeróJun 23, 20173 votes

I think the whole design of ryze is flawed. They keep trying to keep that same design with their reworks and its not working. The mana scaling spell spamming niche is hard to balance for pro play and casual play at the same time.

Wind234Jun 23, 20178 votes

Are we talking full VGU or just a smaller gameplay update, like Kindred or Rek'Sai? Cause I have candidates for both lol In no particular order and just speaking from the head here:

FULL VGU:

Chogath - I love Cho. He's the first I ever got Mastery 5 on, but he's definitely showing his age. I feel like he'd make an awesome AP juggernaut who feels like an unstoppable monster on a rampage, plus it'd be nice to give some of his abilities an overhaul, cause right now a lot of them feel a bit lackluster.

XinZhao , MasterYi - They're both WAY too similar to each other, and on top of that, they're pretty much stat sticks. Both of their kits amount to "get close to the enemy and right click until they die." They're both useless if they're behind, but obnoxious if they're ahead. That, and I feel like both of them can deliver on their themes a bit better. However, Xin is definitely the worst offender of the two, so I'd update him first and foremost.

- His ult is way too strong, and honestly, right now he's kinda boring both gameplay and lore wise. I'd love to see what they could do with an updated Malphite lore. Some kind of giant earth elemental? A mountain brought to life by magic? Noxus's answer to the colossal Galio? There's a lot of potential with this guy and I really want to see it tapped into.

Blitzcrank - Similar to Malphite, only too much power is in his Q, plus I'd love to see the whole "robot with a heart" theme taken a bit more seriously. Right now, he sounds like a typical robot. Same voice, some of his lines are kinda bland, and his model could use a little love imo. It's not bad, but age is clearly beginning to show (this is applying to his base model, not necessarily any skins). He could deliver on his theme so much better than he currently does.

GAMEPLAY UPDATES:

AurelionSol - I love this guy, I really do. But he's got a lot working against him, unfortunately. He has a VERY easy weakness to exploit, which makes him very punishing if played in the wrong match-up. On top of that, he's got a pretty high skill-floor, too. I think he does need a little love to make him less punishing to play as and not so easy to counter in lane. Seriously, just get up close to him whenever his ult is on cooldown and you score a kill.

Azir - Here's a champion I actually used to dabble with before he was nerfed into oblivion. These days I don't play him in anything other than ARAM or the random game modes because his early game sucks so, so bad. I know we've heard Riot say that he needs a lot of work, but I really would like to see Azir be more than a joke character. It's been quite awhile since he was gutted, but I don't think he needs a full VGU. Just a gameplay overhaul.

Teemo - I'm not sure if I want Teemo to get a full VGU or just a gameplay update, but either way, I do think he needs a bit of work. He's horribly obnoxious to play against, and he doesn't really take a whole lot of skill, either. He's all point-and-click damage and I know everyone gets tilted about his shrooms. There is a reason Lil' Devil Teemo became more than a meme. I just think he needs a bit healthier gameplay, that's all.

ElezzroJun 24, 20172 votes

Please don't shove Malphite into Noxus. I would never main him again. But he does definitely need better lore. Maybe he could be Shuriman.

Wind234Jun 24, 20172 votes

I personally think he should be some kind of elemental embodiment, kinda like how Anivia is basically an ice spirit. Being the elemental embodiment of Shurima should be pretty neat!

marpatt11Jun 24, 20172 votes

actually after reading through blitz's lore it seems more like he is either the first AI or a famous AI either way it seems that he acts like a human, but his theme (at least to me) doesn't seem to be "robot with a heart" but I do think that the robot with a heart is a WAAAAAAAAAY better lore idea then AI robot with launching hands and ELECTRICITY! so I do agree with you there, and everything else, just wanted to correct you I tiiiiiiny bit

Wind234Jun 24, 20171 votes

So he's just supposed to be the first autonomous robot? That's it? His lore is even more boring than I thought. lol He could definitely use some love in that regard!

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 24, 20172 votes

Aurelion Sol has some AMAZING play potential, and imo he's the most fun champion to watch in the entire game. I think similar to Taliyah he's just incredibly high skill cap.

Wind234Jun 24, 20171 votes

I love Sol and overall I think he's solid, but I do wish they'd give him a bit more means to fight against gap-closers, especially since a lot of champions come with those. So I don't think he really needs any MAJOR changes, just some nice little stuff so he's not completely screwed just cause the enemy locks in Talon, Diana or Akali.

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 24, 20172 votes

Aurelion is pretty capable when it comes to dealing with the champions you listed. As much as Gap closers make his kit weaker they don't just completely shut him down like people think. He bullies the hell out of Diana and Akali pre-6 where they lack gap-closers, and out roams them at all points. Talon is a hard lane but that's not anything special really. Hextech-GLP is an incredible item on top of that.

He's a champion with a lot of agency over fights and himself. He's hardly in need of work.

Wind234Jun 24, 20171 votes

I do have level 5 on him, but that doesn't mean I'm good at him. XD So there is a pretty good chance that I'm just bad at him, since those kinds of lanes always give me a hard time as him. Maybe he doesn't need work at all, but I would still love the ability to double-tap Q to set it off quicker. Would have saved me a lot of times. lol

LittleOakJun 23, 20175 votes

Personally I have a couple:

Obviously Aatrox Aatrox is getting a rework soon and needs one so he almost doesn't have to be mentioned.

I would say Cho'gath Chogath because all of his skills other than his E have almost too long of a channel time (delay really) to cast and he just feels stale and far too difficult. In todays game where 90% of champions have some form of mobility/gap-close Cho falls behind his hard CC has a 2 second delay on cast. He could be a good champ if his kit got updated slightly, maybe instead of a silence on his scream it's a fear that also does significant damage. His Q knock up could be changed to instead of a one time knock up, have it become a slightly larger circle of first hit stun or knock up followed by the spikes remaining for a time and applying a small slow until it dissapears. His auto-attack buff of E is meh, I feel like it could be changed to feel better by someone who knows more about champ design, maybe giving it a more "impactful" toggle, like Aatrox W does more damage or heals depending on the toggle, Cho's could be still the AoE and on the 5th hit or whatever, inflicts grievous wounds on all targets hit by the AoE bleeding them for 5% of the total damage dealt over the next 3 seconds. His ult could remain the same maybe with a slightly larger range.

I also might include Wukong MonkeyKing in this because his kit feels a little outdated as well. I like everything that he does and it's very unique but it doesn't feel as engaging as other champions.

I have only been playing for a year-ish so these champs might have been reworked, but I just don't know. Lol

In terms of just a visual update, some of Skarner's Skarner skins DESPERATELY need visual updating.

Sassmast3rJun 23, 20175 votes

Karma

Being my main, I feel as if it would only be fair for me to recognize that, in conjunction with being incredibly fun for her multipurpose playstyle, she's one of the most frustrating champions in the game to fight against.

Her passive can remain the way it is with my proposed changes to R.

Her Q can stay the way it is, but either increase the base cool-down, or lower the base damage. She is much too strong in the support role and not quite efficient enough in the mid-lane; she needs to be good at one and mediocre at the other. I'm going to assume based on sheer empirical evidence that people enjoy her more support than mid-lane, so I'm leaning more towards lowering its base damage. This will keep its cooldown low enough that she can harass bottom lane, while not being so oppressive with its damage (especially when it's mantra'd).

Her W is actually fine considering how most have enough mobility to evade it nowadays; it truly feels challenging and rewarding to land a W and fully snare someone. The only change I would make to this ability is to make it more "mantra-able." In other words, instead of making it simply suck the health out of someone when she mantra's it, I think it should instead suck LESS HP when mantra'd, while slowing the enemy by x%. Then, it would feel like she could effectively catch someone off guard with CC like supports are supposed to do, but only be able to do this if she uses her R.

On her E, it's mantra'd form should do a tad bit of damage. The only reason for this is due to the changes I'm about to make to her R, which increase it's recharge time, but allow her to have two charges (similar to old Karma). More often than not, her mantra'd E feels unwise to use simply due to how teamfights go; you either get absolutely destroyed, or you survive easily. Her mantra'd E only giving an AOE shield would feel nice if the meta was different; if damage was down, and teamfights lasted long enough that you truly felt like you were making an impact. However, in this bursty, heavy-damage-oriented meta, it would be more practical to give it some of its damage back.

R simply needs to have two charges. Player's will find this much more interesting, and she would feel more effective. They could totally increase the cooldown on this ability, and have its cooldown only reduced by its own levels OR her passive, but not CDR. If this wasn't enough to balance it, they could just tone down her numbers a bit to help with this. Either way, she just isn't as fun right now where the player feels FORCED into building CDR just to spam mantra because she is so desperate for it.

Shuyin178Jun 23, 20175 votes

Amumu Could have so much more potential based on his lore. Chogath Same thing. DrMundo Extremely boring and brain-dead to use as is. Irelia It's Irelia, need I say more? Karthus Doesn't feel like his kit fits what he should be. Kayle How do you even Kayle as is? Malphite Galio is what he should have been. Nunu Kit is to basic and boring as is. Shyvana Currently butchered so she needs new things. Skarner Juggernaut update practically ruined him after the nerf hammer shattered him. Swain Boring and not fun to play as/against ever.

ClementineJun 23, 20172 votes

Your bias against a lot of those champs are showing

LittleOakJun 23, 20174 votes

I think Kayle is actually in a really good place currently. If she gets shut down early, it's not a problem. But if she gets a kill or two ahead and builds right (Nashor's Tooth, Guinsoos, Runaans) she can single-handedly run away with a game.

Would love Skarner update but I don't want his kit to change. I like the stuns, ulti, passive. All of it makes sense except maybe his Q.

Absolutely agree with Cho'gath (especially), Shyvana, Amumu, Mundo, and Nunu. These champs sadly feel like they're stuck in a time League of Legends has outgrown. Don't know enough about Irelia but I watch enough Gbay99 to know she's probably due for some sort of update.

TormentulaJun 23, 20174 votes

Skarner Nocturne KogMaw Fiddlesticks Karthus Kassadin Ryze Sivir Tryndamere

In no priority order.

ChaosThiefJun 23, 20178 votes

Welcome to the league of legends champion spotlight, featuring Ryze... again.

ClementineJun 23, 20172 votes

What's wrong with Nocturne, Karthus, and Sivir?

TormentulaJun 23, 20176 votes

Nocturne : Outdated, uninteractive kit. Story is dated as well as visuals and even VO lines still refer to the summoner. Karthus : Outdated, his gimmick/identity is completely fucked and countered by 4 items ( item 3157 item 3102 item 3026 item 3155 ) + checked by several shield and heal items. Half the champion roster and even the past 5 champions released have methods to avoid or negate his ultimate, and two past that can itemize zhonya's or banshee's. Sivir : either too weak, or the meta, kinda like lucian. Her kit feels outdated for an ADC as well, probably could do with a gameplay update similar to rek'sai but overall I feel her animations, visuals, gameplay, and theme could use a lot of work.

Wet DrymanJun 23, 20172 votes

~~Why do you think Karthus is outdated?~~ (lul that was a dumb way to start this comment). He has telegraphed abilities and his main damage source is easily dodgeable (which fits modern criteria of champion design). There is nothing wrong with those items countering him as he can play around them or force his enemies to lose Zhonya thus making them vulnerable to Karthus team. On top of that a global ultimate like this adds big pressure on enemy team forcing them to be less agressive during early and mid game and more careful about trades. His gimmick and niche as zoning DPS threat that doesn't care about death is intact and is fine as it is. He isn't fucked as he is actually one of the best mages currently despite all the things you mentioned. Reason? They can be played around.

ClementineJun 23, 20176 votes

I don't play Noc or Sivir often so I can't speak for them, but as a Mastery 7 Karthus he's a lot of fun. item 3155 and item 3156 in general are too strong, and item 3026 fucks a lot of people.

Sorin AlucardJun 23, 20174 votes

Teemo

SulghunterJun 23, 20174 votes

Quinn Even from day one, she was a rushed champion. Back then, Riot was pumping champions out by a schedule. Whilst her story as a champion is awesome, I just think that Riot ought to revisit her so that they can truly finish what they started.

Her new ult just doesn't feel quite right, despite how much I might like it, it still relegates Valor, her partner, to the role of taxi cab. Riot got closer to the concept of two entities working together as partners in the Kindred, but I wonder what they can do if they were to look at Quinn with an eye towards a more extensive rework.

StaliniumJun 24, 20174 votes

In no particular order: Aatrox - garbage, statcheck DrMundo - old, outdated, statcheck, kit too easily negated Fizz - fuck this champion. fucking bullshit. dumb, stupid, deals too much damage, too evasive, not squisy enough due to evasiveness. feels fucking stupid to fight against. not reliant on ult like rework promised. dumb stupid fucking bullshit champion Garen - outdated, weak, no utility and not particularly useful Kalista - passive takes up WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too much of power budget. Can't be good without being OP, can't be bad without being worthless trash Kayle - 1 dimensional outdated statcheck. boring to play as and against Kennen - there's a fucking problem when a champion scales off of AP but whose kit synergizes better with playing like an ADC Mordekaiser - [see MM posts] Morgana - outdated, boring, 1 dimensional. Honorable mention for most boring lane in all of League Pantheon - stupid dumb stupid idiotic dumb bully design. Freelo- sure! Also needs art update... we have spartan warrior archetype who in game looks like a 30 year old man dressing up for halloween in a bad spartan outfit with size 27.5 shoes Tryndamere - the ultimate stat check, hyperscaling level 1/2/3 cheesing pussy champion who is resourceless. THE most lame lane in all of LoL, you have to babysit this turd all game just so he doesn't solo split to your nexus. If you catch him, you can't kill him. If he catches you, you die. WOOOOOO FUN!!!

YOUGOTKILLEDBROJun 23, 20173 votes

nu fucking nu

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 23, 20173 votes

MonkeyKing

Compare him to any other Wukong in any other MOBA and League's version is a joke. A copy-paste bruiser kit with the only unique mechanic (Stealth) being out of place and extremely frustrating to deal with on such a tanky character.

Leo1024Jun 23, 20172 votes

XinZhao

xShiNjiNxJun 23, 20172 votes

Rengar Annie Fiddlesticks Kayle Zilean Nasus Nunu Kalista XinZhao

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJun 23, 20172 votes

Udyr.

Or at least give him a VGU ffs

RizHippoKhanJun 23, 20172 votes

Shen although i like how he is. I never got to play the pre-rework Shen but from the looks of it I find the new one better (unpopular opinion tho) but i hate being bombarded with nerfs and then being left in the gutter (although his winrate isnt the worst)

Ah O Yeah HarderJun 23, 20172 votes

Jayce : Kit is becoming weaker and weaker with every change they make MasterYi : Just plain stupid, can kill a champion with 400 armor in 5 seconds with no armor pen items or black cleaver

AirKingNeoJun 23, 20172 votes

Total Rework: DrMundo Chogath Evelynn Garen Illaoi KogMaw Mordekaiser Nocturne Teemo Tryndamere Urgot Volibear MonkeyKing XinZhao These champions just lack kits that work together or fit in the game. Illaoi is a big one on a kit that doesn't fit into the game, and her passive if the problem.

Gameplay Update: Aatrox Akali Amumu Blitzcrank Ezreal Irelia Jax Jayce Karthus Malphite MasterYi Morgana Kayle Pantheon Vayne Yasuo These champions just lack design into their kit to flow together well, need mini reworks, and/or need to be more interactive.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 24, 20171 votes

Aatrox will receive a big GU. his whole kit will change. MonkeyKing just need a GU too

ImmaHappyPotatoJun 24, 20171 votes

illaoi, and teemo dont need a rework. first off, illaoi is new so no chance in hell theyd change her kit right now. and teemo they wont either. just cuz you hate a champ doesnt mean they need a rework. just means you need to learn how to fight against them. Yas, yi, and pant need something done... theyre either 20/0 shredders or 0/15 feeders... no in betweens ever

ChíckenDaddyJun 23, 20171 votes

Annie Blitzcrank Fizz Syndra Ziggs

ArakadiaJun 23, 20172 votes

Ziggs and Syndra are incredibly thematic. Syndra might need gameplay function changs at most.

ArakadiaJun 23, 20171 votes

Swain bird man

Darth WestJun 24, 20171 votes

He's already good as he is, I'm just afraid Riot will destroy him. (Swain main)

Only reason I even want a rework is for a new skin, sad truth lmao.

JJI744Jun 24, 20171 votes

Irelia, Jax, Xin are all shocking close to the same champion. Xin especially could use some more depth to his kit.

Emerald FangJun 24, 20171 votes

Jax doesn't need a rework IMO. Irelia no more gbay99? But she could use a mini-rework; her ult still isn't that useful honestly compared to the rest of her kit. XinZhao is pretty boring yeah. I can see this.

RandomoniumJun 24, 20171 votes

I don't think all of these need a full rework but they all need at least a gameplay update.

Vanguards: Malphite Wardens: Nunu Juggernauts: DrMundo Garen Udyr Divers: Aatrox Diana Pantheon XinZhao Assassins: Evelynn Nocturne Skirmishers: MasterYi Tryndamere Burst Mages: none Battle Mages: Karthus Ryze Artillery Mages: none Enchanters: none Catchers: Blitzcrank Marksmen: Sivir Unique: Azir Chogath Fiddlesticks Singed Teemo Urgot Zilean

New Tool AlbumJun 24, 20171 votes

Fiora Lucian

ShablagooJun 24, 20171 votes

Rengar

The DeckownerJun 24, 20171 votes

Xin, Tryn, Kayle, Yi, Malphite, Garen, Mundo, etc.

goalgetter666Jun 24, 20171 votes

Rengar

zaire90Jun 24, 20171 votes

Yasuo not because i have problems with him but because im tired of seeing people complain about him everyday and i want to see who they jump over too after the rework

korg023Jun 24, 20171 votes

Cant wait for Kayle and Morgana themed rework.

Dale WardarkJun 24, 20171 votes

I'm pretty biased, but Garen is in a pretty poor state, mostly due to his very binary nature.

Jax and Pantheon could also do with some retooling. Karthus and Annie are starting to show their age as well.

Sire HippingtonJun 24, 20171 votes

there are a lot that could use some work, but the most important for me would be

Annie , Absurd busrt paired with hard CC and all that as 100% reliable point n click or instant aoe, If you don't out range her, you just have no way to deal with her unless you somehow win the statcheck(and even then there is the stun). And even if you out range her, one flash tibbers can end you entier backline.

Blitzcrank he's just a complete hit or miss champ as his entire power is focused on that one abillity. If he grabs you, He will be able to not only keep you there with the knockup, but also add some rather absurd burst to it. To balance that out, his sustained impact in a fight is nearly non existant. Once the grab+ult combo is out, he's just there for the next ~15sec. This makes getting grabbed utterly punishing while missing a grab can be a lost fight already as you basically lost your support for the rest of the fight, so i think he should loose some of the imidiate followup power and therefore contribute a bit more while his combo is down.

Fiddlesticks instant point n click hard CC with high duration, point n click silence with bounces and absurd damage , point n click lifedrain that says fuck you if you don't have cc, for many champs, especially meeles, it's just insanely hard to play around fiddle and all his point n click power. And if you do have the tools to deal with him, it's fiddle that has a hard time doing anything.