Boards›Gameplay

What most people dont get about Marksmen and Assassins...

SleepyWolfie··14 votes·1,828 views

People get super mad after getting one shot by an assassin, but they dont realize that that is their job. Assassin champions ARE MADE to kill. If they dont kill, they are completely useless. They are made to burst, deal a shit ton of dmg in little time and then get out. They may feel super unfair, but that is what they were made for, to kill you. They excell in 1v1s. In mid lane, if youre getting killed by an assassin, just back off. Because you wont be able to kill him unless youre ahead or you are an assassin yourself. He will kill you before, unless you play carefully and whittle him down (this is for mages mainly), then you can kill him before he bursts you.

Marksmen... Ohhh marksmen, how many times have I seen a Jinx trying to chase down a support and then get destroyed by the whole team, and still dont get the kill. Marksmen are about positioning, they do NOT excell in 1v1, but in teamfights instead. Marksmen are incredibly strong WITH their team as long as they are well positioned. Since they deal sustained damage, a lot, and need peel from their allies. There are excpetions, Vayne is an amazing 1v1 champ, guess why... Her secondary role is Assassin. There you have an example of both things together. But does that mean that she will destoy everyone because she excells in both instances? Of course not, since every champion is balanced out of their strengths and give them some weaknesses. She is squishy, very, and is extremely vulnerable to cc.

Just a small, extremely random share of my opinion.

37 Comments

Chaos68916 votes

Finally an answer to the adc mains who whine that OMG RENGAR OP HE ACTUALLY KILLED ME

when you were alone in his jungle

Mizaya1 votes

{quoted}

Finally an answer to the adc mains who whine that OMG RENGAR OP HE ACTUALLY KILLED ME

when you were alone in his jungle

Unless you just happen to have had the misfortune of picking Jhin and being 45 minutes into the game, without your inhibitor turrets, against a Rengar with an 80% crit build that's just going to jump on you with an ulti that has the CD of your respawn timer.

But that doesn't happen every game so its k.

but....

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2238066491/42052856?tab=overview

Chaos6894 votes

The misfortune to have fed as a champion who's very weak to assassins like rengar...

By fed I mean you lost your inhib turrets and fed Rengar or he wouldn't be able to oneshot you. All your fault bud.

LOL HE'S 34/17! BUT NAH HES OP YOU DIDN'T FEED

Mizaya1 votes

{quoted}

The misfortune to have fed as a champion who's very weak to assassins like rengar...

By fed I mean you lost your inhib turrets and fed Rengar or he wouldn't be able to oneshot you. All your fault bud.

LOL HE'S 34/17! BUT NAH HES OP YOU DIDN'T FEED

Had 4 kills before he came bot and killed me

Killed me once out of his first 10 kills

But yeah my fault.

Hopefully he will have a better design after the assassin rework, right now just a shitty champion overall who can be either useless or no counterplay. Glad he's not picked often.

Apocyliptic1 votes

"no counterplay," and "not picked often," are complete contradictions lmao.

ThePompf4 votes

Yorick

Apocyliptic1 votes

He has plenty of counterplay. Survive the laning phase, he falls off, gets kited, and is useless. That's why he isn't played.

EddardStark841 votes

Um no? Do you even English?

Apocyliptic1 votes

It's a direct contradiction because if something has no counter play, everyone will play it, because guess what? It's a free win.

Chaos6891 votes

Yes he can be useless, but there is never a time when armor and cc won't destroy him. By your fault I didn't mean you personally, and I apologize for sounding that way. I meant your whole team. If he had four kills before his first gank bot, then you guys fked up.

Niaphim10 votes

People don't get mad just because they get one shot by assassins. People get mad because they get one shot by assassins who have next to no items. Assassins should prepare their victim and poke. Oneshotting should be a reward for stomping lane, not a given.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

{quoted}

People don't get mad just because they get one shot by assassins. People get mad because they get one shot by assassins who have next to no items. Assassins should prepare their victim and poke. Oneshotting should be a reward for stomping lane, not a given.

Sorry, but i have to disagree. That was before. With nowadays damage creep its very easy to 100-0 any squishy. That just applies to almost every Assassin nowadays. I agree that it SHOULD be like that, but it isnt. Not anymore. Thats why I miss the old days...

Niaphim1 votes

In the meta where everything 100-0 everything - sure. But the damage creep itself is not normal. Your point is valid under assumption that the damage creep is ok. It is not ok, at least in my opinion.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

{quoted}

In the meta where everything 100-0 everything - sure. But the damage creep itself is not normal. Your point is valid under assumption that the damage creep is ok. It is not ok, at least in my opinion.

Yes, maybe its hidden, but my opinion stands as yours. The damage creep is WAY far up. Thats why assassins are 100-0 anyone, when they should do, as you said, poke and prepare for the kill. All we can do is adapt to this, so if youre a mid lane mage against an assassin, stay out and play smart until you can face him accordingly.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but i have to disagree. That was before. With nowadays damage creep its very easy to 100-0 any squishy. That just applies to almost every Assassin nowadays. I agree that it SHOULD be like that, but it isnt. Not anymore. Thats why I miss the old days...

The old days? You mean when Diana, Fizz, and Zed were doing the same exact thing that Assassins are doing today? They were worse back then, but are still insufferable today

Apocyliptic2 votes

No assassin can one shot without a lead. Name one, and every one will be wrong. The only thing you might be able to consider is fizz with his level 6 all in, but seeing as how he has no poke potential at all, it kinda makes sense, even if it's bullshit.

Topless Irelia1 votes

With all the bullshit peel you get from your fucboi support and all of the tools you have to survive for no reason, if an Assassin kills you then you deserved to die. Especially if you were alone and caught out.

TurquoiseYoshi4 votes

Honestly, the most annoying part about it for the marksman isn't that you die. It's that you die basically instantaneously with no real time to react. By the time Zed has moved in and ulted you, you're essentially dead. You can run, flash, dash, whatever and you're still not gonna escape. If you see that ! above your head, you're essentially dead. And with some assassins, like Akali and LeBlanc, you don't even get that time to contemplate your existence before you die.

It looks like Riot is heading in the right direction for the assassin rework. They're attempting to sacrifice some of that lack of counterplay for some sort of utility to help the team win.

Ralanr4 votes

Yeah that's their job, but nobody likes dying so quickly that they can't react. And when they snowball it becomes almost impossible for their counters (tanks) to stop them or protect their team.

Nothing is more frustrating than a LB bursting your carry because he stepped one foot out of formation.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Assassins should be killing 1 person, not entire teams.

Schoenberg2 votes

Every champion has their strengths and weakness' ... Its just some of those weakness' are literally not there... And some champions have more weakness' than others therefore could be considered less-effective... @Urgot

SleepyWolfie2 votes

{quoted}

Every champion has their strengths and weakness' ... Its just some of those weakness' are literally not there... And some champions have more weakness' than others therefore could be considered less-effective... @Urgot

Youre right, its called poor design and balancing.

zlumpy2 votes

They don't get mad about 1 shotts (which Technically no one does unless they are ungodly fed) they get mad about a character with built in kit safety coming out of no where and removing them from the game without them being able to properly respond.

Assassins should be about punishing poor decisions, mind games, and making plays that have counters outside invulnerability. Nobody should be able to reset completely if they mess up or be so slippery that they require 3 plus people to lockdown.

Adc are fine for the most part. Only 2 I have issue with are cait and vayne. Cait traps and headshot resets are shenanigans, and good vaynes win at champion select. You either have the tools to shut vayne down hard or she gets to 1v5 your whole team and claim she is teh bestest.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

I think people wouldn't be so mad about getting killed by an assassin if it felt like they could actually do something against them. You wouldn't expect to be able to 1v1 an assassin as a mage, but at the same time I should be able to outplay the assassin and trade a kill or even straight up kill them every once in a while. All too often it feels like a mage player cannot do anything against an assassin's burst combo without either a point-and-click hard cc, burning summoner spells, or throwing out whatever hard cc ability they have in the hope it hits, and against some assassins like Talon it doesn't even matter because they instakill you before you can react. Yes, their job is to kill a squishy, but just because your job is to kill a squishy doesn't mean that killing a squishy should be free.

As a matter of fact I think a lot of players who play squishy champions would really enjoy the assassin update. Most champions are going to have longer periods to kill a target and have strengths that aren't killing someone, meaning that their strength in killing someone isn't going to be nearly as strong and a lot more manageable for a lot of players.

łnśane2 votes

Why do I feel an Ekko nerf coming

"Hey, so we're going to destroy Ekko, BUT HEY that project skin looks amazing right?!"

Nahh not going to happen [slayer-jinx-catface]

Athenes Lulu2 votes

People in general don't like dying instantly having nearly no retaliation.

If an assassin has full damage items and is one-shotting, fine. If an assassin is doing the same with very little to no items, I'd be pretty ticked too.

Nøble2 votes

The problem is not the purpose of assassins. Like an other class they have a job to do. The problem arises when one of two things happens.

  1. They are too good at what they do. (Rengar killing any squishy target in under a second)
  2. Hard to punish for mistakes.

The problem with a lot of assassins arises from their ability to have a proverbial "get out of jail free card" which can make it very difficult to punish mistakes that would otherwise be easily punishable if it was another class. This attributes such as ekkos ult, zeds ult, etc are innate in most assassins kit. This is because without it, you would die immediately after assassinating someone due to lack of escape, this in turn also allows for assassins to use this as a easy get away if things turn sour. Even champions who lock out their escape tool until their target is assassinated such as kha'zix and Katerina are burdened by being potentially two powerful due to the potential five refreshes of their abilities in a very short period of time. This often leads them to be extremely feast or famine where they either get ahead and become unstoppable monsters who can kill off entire teams, refreshing their ability cd's with every kill, or useless due to the fact that all of their strength is reliant on killing their target, something a behind assassin can have trouble doing.

All together its not the function of assassins that make them weak/strong/ frustrating or whatever negative connotation you like. Its about the structure of their kits and what they require to succeed vs what counter play can be applied to them that makes them a difficult class to deal with.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

Exactly, Im a mid lane main and a adc secondary, and I realized this some time ago. And i figured, well hell ill just write about it...

Popppyseed1 votes

MT prediction is that after the assassin rework, long range marksman and mages will be OP. They already said there gonna reduce assassins ability to burst giving these long range characters more time to react or get help.

The Table1 votes

What a well worded and thought-provoking post. I am sure riot will consider it when you put it so eloquently.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

when jimmy's team picks talon that means timmy's team should have a bit more hp which makes taric an even better choice cuz math

runedara1 votes

Think part of the problem people don't just want to be dunpstered by any one class. It wouldn't be fair if you couldn't do anything vs tanks either. If they removed all % armor shred just because tanks counter assassin that would suck. The lack of counter play is mostly the problem. If you think I miss played that it's not as frustrating as I had no options.

CleverSloth1 votes

I have no problem with assassins 1 shotting someone. I do have a problem with no item assassins being able to one shot literally anyone with no effort. The problem playing against say zed, is there is no playing against him. the only thing you can do is hope he positions badly so your team can kill him.

Arthimetes1 votes

I'm fine with an assassin being able to kill someone easily, the problem is the sheer lack of counterplay most of the have... or dont have... whatever.

Most the time you have to hope the assassin counterplays themselves or fucks up so badly that you can actually do something.

People are gonna butcher me for this, but I think one of the assassins that has the most counterplay is Zed.

His ult puts a giant marker on you telling you exactly who he's going for and he appears ON them, giving people just enough time to maybe lay down a cait trap or even something like Viktor's W.

Every other assassin is inta-gib and free escape (leblanc, Fizz, mid-late game Kassadin, Talon, Rengar save for the escape, etc)

Yes Zed is annoying as fuck and yes he has way too many ranged abilities for a "melee" assassin, but he gives you a second of warning before nuking you to hell, something no other assassins have the courtesy to do.

JustMonika131 votes

All these people are happy about the Assassins getting more utility and having less insta-kill ability and I just have one thing to say...

Ekko. Keep that in mind.

(That being said, I don't really consider Ekko to be an assassin; he's more of a skirmisher, but Riot and most of the community has referred to him as the "utility hit and run assassin", so meh.)

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

"they don't excel in 1 vs 1" Vayne hahahahahahaahahahahahhahahahaha no(not whining here just saying she's good at 1 vs 1)

JustMonika131 votes

{quoted}

"they don't excel in 1 vs 1" Vayne hahahahahahaahahahahahhahahahaha no(not whining here just saying she's good at 1 vs 1)

Yeah, and he admitted it, because Vayne is THE 1 v 1 ADC.

That being said, there are a few others that also do kinda well in 1 v 1 scenarios, like Kindred (? at least she was before the final nerf), Quinn, and Lucian.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by SleepyWolfie

Bring back Solo Queue
Gameplay95 comments
123
votes
Athenes is a weak item
Gameplay99 comments
77
votes
You can complain about Vayne but...
Gameplay50 comments
41
votes
I want it back, PLEASE!
Gameplay2 comments
6
votes
A STEP IN THE RIGHT WAY RIOT!
Gameplay4 comments
6
votes
Please dont kill me, but I dont think Yasuo is that bad
Gameplay15 comments
6
votes