Cassiopeia is relevant during 3 games in invitational championship, nerf, again.

Leu07·May 15, 2015·16 votes·1,527 views

Really, 1.5% mana return on E is nothing, the difference of just having the E total refund without the 1,5% is absurdly low. Cassiopeia is not a soloqueue beast like Ahri which has a much higher pickrate and has stood in the 55/54% winrate for a loooong time so why nerf Cassiopeia? like God... At least give her a skin or something, how many nerfs this year for her? Plus, that Stashu guy has not reported anything, Cassio fans and mains are pissed off.

34 Comments

CanastusMay 15, 201511 votes

This nerf is anything but fair, meanwhile hard counters like LeBlanc literally remain untouched by Riot and continue to draw constant bans.

They already gutted her manacosts and prior damage-output, apparently that wasn't enough for them. She has insane mana issues in lane which is why lasthitting with her E is so important. If she tries to retaliate against poke from her lane-opponent, she either gets destroyed or loses out on her entire manapool.

Her laning phase is among the weakest in the entire game since she has no escape-tools from ganks, no tankyness and a passive which is responsible for her abysmal ratios. She's pretty much a sitting duck, forced to overly commit whenever she hits her poison which however depletes all of her resources. And she's extremely easy to dive aswell.

Cassiopeia needs another rework, there's no denying it. In her current state she'll never receive the justice she deserves, Riot is only interested in gutting Stashu's version of her. Speaking of that guy, did they finally suspend him or why hasn't he showed himself?

A Miss FortuneMay 15, 20155 votes

Cassiopeia in my opinion is a really well rounded mage, and what you said is right. Her mana issues keep her back from being overpowered, you can have a full stacked item 3040 and still run out of mana fast.

She's good at poking in lane, but if the enemy get's low you can't really follow up. Sure they leave lane and miss some cs but it's not as easy as some people think and it's usually the Annie syndrome where you need to flash to make a play or kill the enemy, but worse because you have next to no mana until item 3003

I think Cassiopeia should be reworked into having poison on all of her abilities and not like this

AquariusGineMay 15, 20157 votes

My thoughts exactly.. why are they attacking Cass instead of Ahri..

They buffed her because of complaints and now nerfing her because things have settled.

But you know what, the real reason they are nerfing her is because.. SHE ISN'T FLASHY. No LCS big plays. Just a plain old DPS mage. It's really annoying..

MartyrofsandMay 15, 20152 votes

Its a little funny you say that because Cassio was a big part of what was single handedly the most entertaining game played on the pro scene this year, UoL vs Fnatic week 8.

AbyssphereMay 15, 20157 votes

I don't get how their entire justification for a hated rework has been "hey at least she's powerful now!" and yet every time she shows up in competitive play she loses more power. Like, what are Cass players meant to do? You removed all fun from the champion except "Hey at least I can win" and then decide to take that away too.

Can they please just re-rework her? This is such a mess. The worst thing is I can understand getting rid of the mana sustain anyway - it's a toxic thing to have in a kit that also has HP sustain. But she needs it because her kit is a nightmare.

CanastusMay 15, 20156 votes

This was just added on the PBE:

Aspect of the Serpent (Passive) 100 stack bonus' Twin Fang heal AP ratio reduced to .06 from .1

I'm at a loss of words. They're seriously going to gut her entire laning phase with this. I fear she might return to a pitiful state comparable to her 4.16 self where she literally couldn't do anything in lane besides losing the game for her team.

AquariusGineMay 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

This was just added on the PBE:

I'm at a loss of words. They're seriously going to gut her entire laning phase with this. I fear she might return to a pitiful state comparable to her 4.16 self where she literally couldn't do anything in lane besides losing the game for her team.

wtf.. I'm speechless

Neo CyrusMay 15, 20154 votes

Where did they announce this nerf?

And seriously? Another Cass nerf? Cass was left in a sorry state, so naturally Stashu ran and never looked back. Nunu has had a 57% win rate forever (Plat+), Zed is still cancer mid lane, Heimer is still a freelo machine with nearly a 60% win rate for those with 50+ games on him... hmmm... Cass saw some competitive play even though she lost a lot and dies if something looks at her, better nerf her.

ProfDrDeathMay 15, 20153 votes

The thing with that mana return is, though:

While her kit needs a form of mana sustain (and best one that scales with additional mana, unlike Xerath), her having both mana and HP sustain after a point makes her a monster to deal with.

And with her core item Seraph's, it is not like she'll still restore 30 mana per E kill on top of refunding its cost.

Leu07May 15, 20158 votes

{quoted}

The thing with that mana return is, though:

While her kit needs a form of mana sustain (and best one that scales with additional mana, unlike Xerath), her having both mana and HP sustain after a point makes her a monster to deal with.

And with her core item Seraph's, it is not like she'll still restore 30 mana per E kill on top of refunding its cost.

Rank 5 E= 90 mana, that's like throwing an ult every 0.5 sec, that's why she needs to get the sustain, otherwise people will just pot up/sustain and shove her lane.

SgtCrispyMay 15, 20153 votes

I remember there was a recent redpost about how Urgot was toxic to play against because if he landed his E he got to spam Q on you for free and it was too much of a reward for landing one skillshot.

Yet somehow Cassi landing her Q ( which has a MUCH lower cooldown than Urgot's E, in fact it's so short you can't even really punish her for missing it like you can with Urgot ) and mashing her face on E to chunk you is totally cool. In short, I welcome the Cassi nerfs.

Leu07May 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I remember there was a recent redpost about how Urgot was toxic to play against because if he landed his E he got to spam Q on you for free and it was too much of a reward for landing one skillshot.

Yet somehow Cassi landing her Q ( which has a MUCH lower cooldown than Urgot's E, in fact it's so short you can't even really punish her for missing it like you can with Urgot ) and mashing her face on E to chunk you is totally cool. In short, I welcome the Cassi nerfs.

4 sec cd, though you got to be careful of her W if you try to all-in in that period. And that's just how she works, if she does that she'll get oom, so you can punish her for that if you think you can sustain her trades.

Mandang0May 15, 20151 votes

Yea, I'm happy Riot seems to actually be acting self-consistently for once.

Backup4nowMay 15, 20153 votes

Hey, there's a bit of missing context here. Urgot can take a hit, reduces your damage output, and slows you so it's harder to fight back. Don't forget the massive range, of course. Cassiopeia at least mostly only does damage, without her ult, only slows a little, and everything but the spammy part does shit damage. Cassiopeia is much more like a magic ADC than a magic Urgot. Having to land her q in the first place is like saying an ADC needs to land a spell before their crits take effect.

KingsgraveMay 15, 20152 votes

"not a solo queue beast"

http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia/Top http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia/Middle

ImFlutterShyMay 15, 20152 votes

cassiopeia noob op cancer champion

Leu07May 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

cassiopeia noob op cancer champion

And your argument is...?

ImFlutterShyMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And your argument is...?

cassiopeia is even more op than zyra, nerf her

DanofDemaciaMay 15, 20152 votes

Riot is playinf favorites like always but u have to be a tard to not realize she is oppressive

The Queen ViperMay 15, 20156 votes

Against certain champs like melee, sure she's oppressive.

... just like every other ranged mage.

DanofDemaciaMay 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Against certain champs like melee, sure she's oppressive... just like every other ranged mage.

No even against most mages she's oppressive. Constant twin fangs to the facw is always fun for the enemy. Especially with that bug where her purple poison is invisible to enemies

TheUltimateSpearMay 15, 20152 votes

Even as someone who doesn't like the Cassiopeia rework, I'd say she was pretty reasonable. Just as bad if not worse to fight against, but relatively fine.

If they nerf her enough times the people who played her for her power will stop, and then no one will play her, and perhaps riot will revert Cassiopeia's trash "Rework."

BluePolarizerMay 15, 20151 votes

I would ban Cass every game, but Ahri and LeBlanc exist. She is the 1000x more cancerous version of old Ryze.

Leu07May 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I would ban Cass every game, but Ahri and LeBlanc exist. She is the 1000x more cancerous version of old Ryze.

Maybe you don't know that if you pressure her early game with some jungle ganks you can shut her down and make her useless during mid-game in which you can take objectives and end the game quick, not letting her scale to the late game.

BluePolarizerMay 15, 20151 votes

GL with that. You have to absolutely camp her lane to the exclusion of taking any objectives because her power spike is both at level 2 and level 18. She is a contested pro pick for a reason.

Leu07May 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

GL with that. You have to absolutely camp her lane to the exclusion of taking any objectives because her power spike is both at level 2 and level 18. She is a contested pro pick for a reason.

Put a snowballer champ in the mid-lane (ahri, leblanc, zed...) and camp her during early and the game is half won. In the proplays most of the times leblanc or zed were banned.

IcyPepperMay 15, 20153 votes

To be fair, mid is often a jungler's favorite lane to gank because of the duo ganks to get bot lane snowballing and dragon control.

CircusT4ffyMay 15, 20151 votes

Can anyone explain to me why the bot version of Cassiopeia is such a beast on intermediate?

The Queen ViperMay 15, 20151 votes

Meh... even though the nerfs are a bit uncalled for, we should be fine though. We get the Tear during our first trip back, so it shouldn't be something that bad or backbreaking.

Also if you want to go little crazy like me, you can try flat Mana regen seals to compensate the horrible early game. ^^

Worst Mid EverMay 15, 20151 votes

the thing is no one mains cass unless she is broken, while everyone plays ahri even when her winrate is low because she is actually fun with a high skillcap and promotes making plays around that map rather than just sitting in lane afk waveclearing with no mana costs then winning teamfights without actually having to get solo kills or roaming because she just scales better than everyone else, also ahris winrate has been 51% since the start of the season, and her winrate compared to ranked games played with her is one of the healthiest of all mid laners, whereas champions like Annie start out with a 52% over the first 1-5 games then it only increases another 2-3% once you've played 100+ games with her

Leu07May 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Mid Ever,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BrPEx3Fs,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-05-15T15:53:02.529+0000)

the thing is no one mains cass unless she is broken, while everyone plays ahri even when her winrate is low because she is actually fun with a high skillcap and promotes making plays around that map rather than just sitting in lane afk waveclearing with no mana costs then winning teamfights without actually having to get solo kills or roaming because she just scales better than everyone else, also ahris winrate has been 51% since the start of the season, and her winrate compared to ranked games played with her is one of the healthiest of all mid laners, whereas champions like Annie start out with a 52% over the first 1-5 games then it only increases another 2-3% once you've played 100+ games with her

Really? because TRUE fans like me will ALWAYS play the snake, she is the second champ I bought and since then I've mained her, since season 3 where she was considered trash tier and was bugged AF. The thing is, riot won't let public image champs like Ahri, Kata or Annie get nerfed or irrelevant. When have you seen Annie, Ahri or Kata in trash tier in the soloqueue? I have not. Heck, Cassio got some love from the pros because she fits the tank meta with her sustain damage, not because she is broken. The reason why she got banned many times was because the teams did not want to give comfort picks to let's say... EasyHoon or Febiven. I've seen other pro players from other regions playing Cassiopeia in these tournaments and most of them lost hard.

Also, I don't really know why people say cassio is a noob champ, you can't just roll your face on the key board like you do with Katarina , you have to be constantly poisoning targets (btw, you can't just simply switch between targets) and get close to do damage, you can get chain ccd, miss poison, you can get outplayed easily aswell. It's more about positioning perfectly and landing skillshots rather than E spaming. People just loooove to talk sh*t about a champ they haven't really played. Briefly, riot should focus their balance endeavors in soloqueue nightmare freelo champs, not some comfort picks for the pros. Why can't the pros be allowed to be strong with certain champ? I mean, riot is already targeting the Urgot ! what about it? keep the unpopular picks in the oblivion or what? not good for the public image? wtf.

Kariu RenaMay 15, 20151 votes

Cass won lane against every champ at msi fkn cancer to lane against

The Queen ViperMay 15, 20152 votes

No she didn't.

junglerboy16May 15, 20151 votes

You do realize she's been receiving bans in most regions ever since the season started? Showing up in MSI as a pick/ban was nothing new, Riot simply forgot to nerf her since instead of showing up in game she was only showing up in bans.