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Why Karmas passive needs to change

Warden Karma·10/22/2017, 8:55:06 PM·31 votes·2,921 views

Or why Karma’s passive is very bilinear and has little skillexpression.

#Hey there,

recently Karma’s passive has been buffed and again the problematic of her passive came into my mind. While a lot of passives succeed in expressing skill and rewarding aggressive play, Karma’s fails at the first point and here is why:

But the cdr passive fits her kit! Without it Mantra would be meh!

That is true, however the passive

https://pre00.deviantart.net/a316/th/pre/f/2013/271/d/9/lol_karma_by_acesla-d6o9lg1.jpg

  • does not** interact** with her whole kit (only with Q/W)

  • does not have a skill floor on its own (mastering (R)Q/W means mastering the passive along).

  • does not fit her theme (wise leader who wants to protect her people vs ravenous woman who siphons power out from damaging enemies)

  • Ironically, the higher the cdr granted from the passive and the higher your cdr is, the less skillexpression via passive is possible.

  • Explained: The higher the cdr is you get, the less targets you need to hit to get your Mantra up. Pretty simple isn’t it? And when your Mantra cd is even reduced by cdr (40%+) you need even less passive procs.

  • Overall, a Karma with 40% cdr only needs to trigger her passive ~5 times to regain Mantra. So if you hit 2 enemies with your Q and you hit your W plus the time you need to perform that is enough to regain Mantra.

  • And because it grants so much cdr in late game and you already have a lot of cdr it is not really important how many enemies you hit, but that you hit at all. So its either you hit your Q/W or not. There is not much real gain from hitting more than 2 enemies with your Q.

  • Since the passive grants so much cdr you can almost safely use your w just because of the procs but not because it would be strategically wise.

  • You are punished double when you miss your Q/W.

Conclusion: You get either a high reward for simply hitting Q/W or you get a high punish for not doing so.

Furthermore, if you hit, you gain your Mantra every ~2-3 seconds, which can be even lower than the cd of your basic abilities. So you wait for your base abilities to come up so that you can cast your ultimate to enchance them. That doesn’t really _feel _ ultimate like to spam your Mantra like that, right? Do we really need a Mantra every 2-3 seconds to be impactful? To feel usefull?

So you hit your RQ on 4 people as mid lane Karma, good job. Now wait till your Q comes off cd so you can cast RQ again.

You used your RE? Well just throw your Q/W on someone somehow. Your damage is meh anyways as you rarely get your q on their carries and W is pretty much just for the passive to proc. Again, wait for your E to come off cooldown.

------------------------------ So then just nerf it back? ------------------------

This wouldn’t work so well because she simply does not have the kit nor the theme for an innate like that.

--------------------------------------- The Solution? ----------------------------------

I hope in the coming rework that Riot will rework her passive entirely (and maybe somehow moving the current passive nerfed to her mantra).

What are your thoughts?

55 Comments

YuGiHo10/22/2017, 9:11:26 PM21 votes

I want my shield bomb back

YuGiHo10/22/2017, 9:10:57 PM17 votes

I want my shield bomb back

ModBianca Colt10/23/2017, 2:45:40 AM11 votes

That whole "Mantra cooldown reduction" thing should have been part of Mantra itself in the first place. I do like her current passive, but it just feels like a filler, rather than an actual passive ability.

IxtaliKing10/23/2017, 12:50:59 AM10 votes

Hey Warden. First of all, + 1 xD.

Just want to touch on one thing:

does not fit her theme (wise leader who wants to protect her people vs ravenous woman who siphons power out from damaging enemies)

At this point, we have no confirmation what her theme is actually supposed be. Being a 'wise leader who wants to protect her people' is who she is + her motive, but not really a theme. Karma's spells allude to her being some kind of spirit mage, but since she's lost duality her theme needs fleshing out.

That being said, her passive doesn't really go for or against her being a 'wise leader' or a spirit mage. It's purely there for gameplay purposes and it in that regard it serves her well.

Best case scenario - Riot nerfs her current passive, moves it to her Mantra and gives her a new innate.

The Soulforged10/22/2017, 11:37:53 PM7 votes

I want my shield bomb back

ShadowParker10/23/2017, 12:40:49 AM5 votes

I want my shield bomb back

Ahris10/22/2017, 9:23:12 PM4 votes

She is getting reworked.

WDG Devour10/23/2017, 9:24:38 PM3 votes

I want my fucking shield bomb back.

Was so satisfying.

Winterkill10/23/2017, 3:30:34 PM3 votes

Her problem is they refuse to work on her thematic and revolve a kit around that. Karma is the embodiment of Ionia and a inspiring leader. Right now all she does is sit in the back and press R+E and her only relevance in this game is when they have her R+E over-buffed and shield enhancing items are OP. I swear Riot only buffed her in season 6 to throw it in Karma mains faces that they think they know what they are doing, but in reality they are trying to cover up a mistake after mistake. There is always an excuse to never do anything meaningful on this champion besides a shield buff. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they nerf her even more. I have no confidence in this Development teams ability to do anything meaningful on Karma . . . . especially Ricklessabandon.

She needs drastic changes to turn her into what she used to be . . . a battlemage. Karma needs a new passive, reworked Q+R that fits a battlemage, her clothes line tether back or an ally function, and her shield bomb back. From a thematic level Karma needs her fans back or they need to play up this half worked on theme they are still trying to sell us.

TheHappyReaperz10/23/2017, 3:44:05 PM2 votes

How about something like this:

P: Twin Dragons

Passively, 8/12/16% of the damage dealt by Karma to minions and monsters, doubled when damaging champions, is stored as a shield charge, up to a cap of 25/50/75 + (0.65 AP). This charge lasts until 2/3/4 seconds after Karma exits combat, then decays at a rate of 10% per second. Passively, 10/15/20% of the damage blocked by shields, doubled when the damage came from a champion, is added as bonus magic damage on her abilities, up to a cap of 50/75/100 + (0.70 AP). This charge lasts until 2/3/4 seconds after Karma exits combat, then decays at a rate of 10% per second.

There would most likely have to be some nerfs to her shield and Q, as well as a change to her ult's CD. Despite that, I feel like this is more thematically fitting than her current passive. She gains damage by protecting herself and others and shields herself and others better by dealing damage. Just seems Karma-like.

Leonerdo10/23/2017, 3:32:34 AM1 votes

Her passive is one of the last things I'd complain about for Karma. Her W and Ult are far more problematic and unfun.