Suggestion for a new starters item for tanky mid/top laners who have to fight caster magi.

FERViD RAGE·Feb 8, 2015·9 votes·1,517 views

We should incorporate a new item that grants starting magic resist and mana regeneration. This would help with sustaining in lane, and having to go against champions who hit their level 2 and are able to tower dive with no risk of being caught under turret (aka and , OR if you happen to be the unlucky sap who has to fight a caster mage that just totally facerolls you to the point of being unable to farm properly IE: vs or vs . An item of this caliber would help with going against champions who have an insane early harass, and allow you to properly farm without getting bursted so rapidly.

So this item should have similar stats to a doran's shield, and make it to where it has: "Doran's Ward" 10 magic resist 2 mana regen/5 sec unique passive: Blocks 4 damage coming from Multi-target spells.

16 Comments

junglerboy16Feb 8, 201515 votes

What they really ought to do is revert the cost increase on null magic mantle, because that was a completely viable anti mage start before they messed with its cost (which is now utterly unnecessary since they returned Negatron to the game).

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20154 votes

This. It seems kind of stupid that you have a lot of starting options for your various needs and enemy-laners item 1028 item 1027 item 1001 item 1029 item 2041 item 1004 item 1006 and Doran's, but nothing which offers MR. Most significantly, why can you purchase at start but not item 1033 ?

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BeQAqgb8,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-09T00:09:38.758+0000)

This. It seems kind of stupid that you have a lot of starting options for your various needs and enemy-laners and Doran's, but nothing which offers MR. Most significantly, why can you purchase at start but not ?

Riot's argument as to why they made MR so hard to get is usually along the lines of "magic damage happens less frequently and besides spells almost all mages have nothing else to inflict damage with"

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20151 votes

Well that's not exactly true. Autoattacks are a big part of mages' harass early-game, and can (occasionally) secure kills. That reasoning explains why there are relatively fewer MR items than armor items in-game, and also why most champions have 30 base MR but armor scaling up to 65 or more... but it doesn't address the situation early game where auto-attacking champions must get within range to deal physical damage (with the exception of AD casters), while mages can generally use longer-range skillshots.

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BeQAqgb8,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-09T06:23:05.910+0000)

Well that's not exactly true. Autoattacks are a big part of mages' harass early-game, and can (occasionally) secure kills. That reasoning explains why there are relatively fewer MR items than armor items in-game, and also why most champions have 30 base MR but armor scaling up to 65 or more... but it doesn't address the situation early game where auto-attacking champions must get within range to deal physical damage (with the exception of AD casters), while mages can generally use longer-range skillshots.

Buying high amounts of Armor doesn't destroy Physical characters in the early game because Physical damage is always sustained, especially on Ranged Carries.

Buying high amounts of MR, or really any amount quickly, can destroy Magic characters because their damage isn't that sustained. It doesn't happen that often and it costs them a lot just to hit you with one spell.

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20151 votes

Physical damage isn't always sustained, certainly not on AD casters (Pantheon, Riven, etc.)... but I see your point. I'm just not sure it quite holds true as far as mid goes. Early-game, most mages harass with physical attacks. Mana regen's so bad these days that some champions (like Lux and Malzahar) have to choose between using their spells for harass or waveclear.

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BeQAqgb8,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-09T07:23:15.859+0000)

Physical damage isn't always sustained, certainly not on AD casters (Pantheon, Riven, etc.)... but I see your point.

Well I would hardly call Riven a caster

Pantheon has troubles because his damage falls off due to no multiplier for his damage. You either build a fuck ton of Penetration or you just build tanky and face the reality of not being able to do anything. He is the only immobile AD Caster so I guess its okay.

FERViD RAGEFeb 8, 20153 votes

I really wish that players would pay more attention to this sort of post, because people tend to complain about certain champions dealing a fuckton of damage, yet somehow we have EVERY other starting item that grants certain resistances except magic.

The Bearded BardFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=FERViD RAGE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BeQAqgb8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-02-08T20:08:21.123+0000)

yet somehow we have EVERY other starting item that grants certain resistances except magic.

You mean armor. There are only two resistances in this game lol.

But for real, a starter MR item isn't a super great idea. Most mages aren't that great early game. Sure you've got your outliers, your Leblancs and whathaveyous, but for the most part, mages go OOM before they leave much of a dent. If you want safety against mages, regen works just fine. Just take a pot or two every time you back and you'll notice their damage won't stick and they'll be OOM in no time.

Early game MR can be gained from masteries and runes.

SpongebobIsLifeFeb 8, 20151 votes

interesting. I like it.

Slamurai JackFeb 8, 20151 votes

I feel like Doran's ward would just be too strong with my Doran's potions.

UndeadmerlinFeb 9, 20151 votes

Doran's Cloak

Reduces all spells against target by 10 damage
60 HP -150 mana

UnSeenDeath88Feb 9, 20151 votes

I used to always start null magic before the price increase when I went against a mage in top lane, now top laners have to suffer while the mage can buy a cloth 5 and out damage you, from a distance, until he get some gold built up to buy. All these defensive starting items for AD, or AA but nothing now to reduce AP damage.

The Bearded BardFeb 9, 20151 votes

If you wanna talk about bad options for starter items look at mages themselves! Doran's ring and boots. That's all they've got. AD's base item is Longsword, 360 gold, leaves you enough gold to buy 3 health pots. AP's base item is Amp tome, 435 gold, leaves you enough for just ONE health potion. Hardly a viable starting option.

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20151 votes

Before the mana regen nerfs, as a support I would often grab item 1004 item 2044 item 2003 ... not so viable anymore, though. Now supports have basically two options (Relic Shield or Spellthief's Edge, because Nomad Medallion is awful).

If I'm playing a tear-stacking mages I sometimes start with item 1027 and 2 item 2003 .

kDrakariFeb 9, 20151 votes

I don't think mana or mana regen make sense if you're making an item for tanky/bruiser/melee champions to lane against someone with strong early magic damage; there are plenty of manaless champions that have the same problem. I'd rather they just change Doran's Shield to give like 10 armor and MR instead of the unique passive it has now. Maybe it turns out 10 is too much, or they need to nerf the HP or regen parts to fit the resistances in, but the current item rather than being "good v. AD, bad v. AP" in design, is set up as "good v. single-target, bad v. multi-target" and only leans toward AD because AD champions always get a lot of their damage from auto attacks. I think it's fine to just rebalance it as a "general" defensive item instead, similar to when they changed Doran's Blade from being flat HP-per-auto attack to normal life steal (though for some reason it was actually normal life steal in an earlier version then got changed to the flat HP thing first then changed back...)

I think I got a bit rambly there, but the point is that champions that would want a "Doran's shield except good versus mages" would want... well, just a Doran's shield except with the unique passive changed to something that's better against mages. And at that point why not just make Doran's Shield better against mages?