Concerning the support role, and how its causing the queue timers to increase.

WukongMain·Mar 1, 2016·11 votes·1,616 views

I originally commented this on someones complaint of long queues, figured it's be a good idea to give it it's own post =).

When people put support as their secondary role, They get support 90% of the time. (or so they say). When people put fill as their secondary role, They get support 90% of the time (or so they say).

With this in mind obviously people wanna play their primary role, right? So they stop putting support and fill in either one of their preferred roles.

So now you have a shortage of supports. meaning half the time you're in queue is basically just waiting on more supports to enter the queue.

The people are mad that they keep getting support whenever they show any signs of willing to support. this leads to less and less people showing signs they are willing support.. which just makes the problem worse.

People need to start putting support as one of their roles. If enough people do this, the long queues will disappear.

So, that's my explanation for the long queues, and why they're increasing.

what do you guys think?, Is supporting fun?, does it feel rewarding? Explain your reasoning. Maybe we as a community can come together and work out a way for riot to somehow make supporting more acceptable as a role.

40 Comments

ZielmannMar 1, 201612 votes

As a support main, I enjoy the 5-second queues :P

But seriously, i agree something needs done to reach a balance for those who can't get their main roles often.

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

oh i bet you do!! i'm personally thinking of picking up support somehow. Idk, i just enjoy Top and jungle too much...how am i going to give that up? :O. hmm maybe i can compromise and put top/jungle one queue and the next top/support. and keep rotating between the 2.

hmm now that i think of it, that seems like a fair balance. Game 1 put support as one of the roles..odds are you'll get support. Game 2 don't put support to ensure you get your role main role Keep rotating between the two options :D.

also.... Is it really 5 seconds? xD.

ZielmannMar 1, 20161 votes

Usually under 10 seconds for sure (granted I'm still on my way up through silver after placements). Sometimes it's almost instant. Think I've only seen 1 or 2 above 20 seconds.

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

oh wow, that's certainly impressive queue timers.

If that isn't incentive to support all the time, i don't know what is!

Lost RMar 1, 20165 votes

I've repeated myself countlessly on this subject, but this lack of supports issue is a direct result of the COMMUNITY, not Riot. The community decided years ago that kills were the only thing that mattered. Assassins (literally synonymous with murder) became the hot shit, and supports, being the complete antithesis of that, were shafted. There's also the constant maltreatment of supports, to the point that I saw people more than willing to get themselves permabanned, IN RANKED, so they wouldn't have to play support for even one second. That's the story behind why I became a support main. I did it _simply to lessen the chance someone would flip their shit. _ ...................

But even support mains need a break from it all. I'm trying to get time in with all the champions so I can get to Mastery 5 with everyone. I've already hit Mastery 5 with half of the support champions or champions that I think I can get away with as a support, and the only reason why I don't have more is because I don't have much opportunity to practice with other champions. More often than not I find myself trying to counterpick my own team because everyone decided it'd be really neat to go all ADC/Assassin, to the point where we commonly lack range, durability, crowd control, and utility. Literally almost no game goes by now where I'm not Nami, Braum or Vel'Koz, just to try and bring even the slightest bit of variety to the team. It's gotten to the point where being the JUNGLER is a vacation for me, a vacation that I'm increasingly wary about going on because I'm afraid my substitute will shit the bed (and more often than not I'm proven right). Ironically, overspecialized compositions like that tend to suck even at what they're supposed to be really good at. I am obligated to pick Taric whenever I see three or more AD assassins on the enemy team, because (outside of trying to get him to Mastery 5) I know that once I get my first two items, I'm basically immortal and they'll have no answer to it. Yi, Xin, Jax and Udyr can suck it.

Speaking of which, that leads me to my next point. This hyper-emphasis on assassins and generally any champion that can killfast the killfastest, combined with the issues between Sated Devourer, Rageblade (which have been, are, and will be addressed) and the aforementioned champions up there, has led to an arms race where both sides try to outdamage each other in a straight up slugfest. It's horrendously counterproductive, and people so quickly toss to the side any and all alternatives, like, I don't know, crowd control. All four of these guys have to charge face first at their target and have zero ranged abilities otherwise. You have so many options here to punish them for jumping on you, it boggles the mind that no one has caught onto this, but you aren't going to find one in an assassin trying to outdamage another assassin.

Long story short, yes, supports are maltreated by a single-player minded community addicted to killing and the mentality needs to change. Supports are in a better position now than ever, but now with Dynamic Queue being a thing, it has brought to the spotlight the problem of groupthink that has plagued the League Community for years and something the community has been able to ignore until recently. It's not something Riot can just patch, either; that dependency on Riot to solve all your personal problems has to stop. This is something the community has to address and begin to rewind or else the problem will only get worse.

WukongMainMar 1, 20163 votes

I have to agree with you on that. Supports are in a better position now than ever.

However, i do believe Riot has some power in this..Yes while it may be something the community has to address we could use Riot's help in the matter. Think of the posts they make, the videos they feature on their LoL Client for example. These get tons of views and are brought to the spotlight for all to see.

We as a community need to make a case to Riot with these concerns, and from there with the help of Riot we can really bring the issue to spotlight with a solution.

P.S: I'm not one of those kill kill kill guys ;). idk why people don't like crowd control :/, its super effective.

Anoni KMar 1, 20161 votes

All of this, yes. +1

It would also go a long way for teammates to recognize a support doing fairly well or better, and to realize that maybe it wasn't entirely the support's fault a teamfight failed. But those 2 things are asking a whole lot from the majority of the community of pwnoobs247.

RetillinMar 1, 20161 votes

See I disagree. I think the main reason support is not a high picked role has to do with Riot's game philosophy. They keep adding cc/utility to champs that do a lot of damage (GP has two slows, a heal, a QSS; Fiora has a dash, 2 heals, move/attack slow; Kindred a dash, heal, slow, heal/prevent death ult; ect.). So that means what a support SHOULD be good at is over shadowed by other champs. So at the end of the day we see mage supports because they bring utility AND damage.

Riot kinda needs to remove a lot of "extras" on their new/reworked champs. Make sure utility is the strength of the support (and yes tanks) instead of just giving it whilly nilly to everyone.

Lost RMar 1, 20161 votes

The champions you listed don't have any stuns; the only way Fiora could stun is if she parries any hard crowd control at the right moment. Gangplank and Fiora only heal themselves while Kindred's "heal" is on their ult, and it's a paltry amount and a side effect, anyways. On top of all that, Gangplank's slows are more an effect of zone control and less an effect of crowd control; it's much easier to stop an enemy from approaching than it is to stop them from escaping. Kindred and Fiora, likewise, have to put themselves in harm's way to lay down their crowd control, and their slows are more an anti-escape effect than it is to peel for an ally.

Meanwhile, Nami, for example, has one (potentially) group stun on a relatively low cooldown, a multi-target heal/damaging spell, a basic attack buff/slow, and a long range knock-up/slow ult, and her passive gives a brief boost of movement speed. She has a LOT of utility; more than any non-support champion. She's a Master of None support, meaning she doesn't specialize in any one field, but excels at being versatile enough that she can be applied to almost any situation. She can't lock down an enemy like Leona or heal like Soraka, but the fact is she can do both, whereas Leona can't heal outside of items, and Soraka can't stun and can barely snare.

This is where your logic is flawed. The utility that the champions you listed along with many others is for a self-benefit rather than for the benefit of others. Yeah, you COULD use them in a way to benefit your teammates, but that's not their intended use, and a hell of a lot harder to pull off. That's also why you don't see (m)any Gangplank or Fiora supports.

Truly PridefulMar 1, 20162 votes

I love playing support, I just always queue with someone who mains it so I rarely play it now. I think the thing that makes support unpopular is the fixation a lot of the playbase has on "carrying". A lot of people can't seem to grasp that carrying a game doesn't always mean you have the most kills or cs. I've seen so many supports like Thresh, Braum, etc set up massive plays that just win the game.

I also don't think most people like to play on low income, which is understandable. It's a unique role and I don't think there's much Riot can do without warping what it is. If you give supports more money, you'll see even more mages. It's hard to say what they should change, if anything at all.

HoodwinkMar 1, 20162 votes

Queue time? What's that?

- a support main

Only Play DariusMar 2, 20162 votes

Quality over quantity.

Queue times may be longer but now you usually get hardcore support mains on your team.

I'm actually enjoying ADC now as I almost always get a support that knows exactly what they are doing.

WukongMainMar 2, 20161 votes

same, i'm willing to put up with the queue timers, however alot of people arent. they want Quality AND Quantity ....

They greedier than that team that executed 4 times in the LCS.

LintheMar 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

what do you guys think?, Is supporting fun?, does it feel rewarding? Explain your reasoning. Maybe we as a community can come together and work out a way for riot to somehow make supporting more acceptable as a role.

I main supoprt... so yes, I enjoy it.. And there is a nice variety of sup champs available.

But I dont want to do it ALL the time.. Sometimes I want a change... And I want to expand my other roles as well.

And I know if I pick fill or supp... I am all but guaranteed to get sup. (One time I picked fill and got top..that is the only time I think.)

So if I want to play something other than sup.. I select those 2 specifically.. no sup pick at all.. and not fill.

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

What makes it fun? and if you could think of 1 reason why player's don't want to support what would that be? :).

Also do you think compromising and putting support/fill 1 game and then not the next and then rotating between the two is a good idea for players to do?

LintheMar 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What makes it fun? and if you could think of 1 reason why player's don't want to support what would that be? :).

Also do you think compromising and putting support/fill 1 game and then not the next and then rotating between the two is a good idea for players to do?

I would guess it'e because you typically don't get kills.... Or more generally, supports get a lot of the blame and minimal credit... (which is why I ALWAYS point out a nice hook or bind or whatever when Im playing ADC).

I personally find it fun when I monsoon and ADC survives or even gets a kill out of it..

And Thresh lantern has been the most rewarding thing I have ever done.. 100% incoming death straight into no death at all...

(I have been on the other side that of too.. And I just think F***.. So frustrating... :P)

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

whenever i play thresh and drop a lantern no one clicks it :(. how did you get so lucky lol.

LintheMar 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

whenever i play thresh and drop a lantern no one clicks it :(. how did you get so lucky lol.

Yea.. A little piece of me dies when that happens... But I think more people have learned....

EmExMar 2, 20161 votes

Because you don't know which mouse button to push at least that's how its been with me

A8KkXovSOfMar 1, 20161 votes

I never play sup if i am alone. I love sup if in a group. For me during season 5 solo my rule was to never play anyone that was dependent. Leo is my favorite but She cant clear a wave, take a tower, dub kill no assist, split push. I understand that is stupid and if duo do not use this line of thinking. But have you ever been dropped from silver 2 100lp to B5 0lp from drug and alcohol life-woman-bad times? You'll agree with me real quick when you got 20 rune pages all champs and this adc got half a page mix and match T1 17/30 masteries assigned on a locked screen. When you say hey bro u got 13 more points to use and they don't understand. u repeat they still don't get what you mean. So because I love trolling I decided to play whoever I wanted sup. Remember this was like half way in season 5. Yolo top laners work. Even better if you mute and just farm away. Exhaust never.

Irelia works very well. I went all tank set up started with like a chain vest item cap or w/e then made damage.
Jax is fantastic- IBG Cape then regular Xin was ok WW if your good works Rumble is a natural if you are familiar. ADC kills no one you are the bot lane

Elise- usless until lev 3. was alot of fun and very good if u got a lead. Her split pushing OP. Hard part was getting random adc to understand that your rappel is not an escape at all they dont get it. They have a hard time understanding that u just landing on them blowing everything is what u do. U cant just run away. But u can Burn adc down. Get shot in back running or kill them only options all in all day. They don't shoot an aa at all its rage city. I used IBG in every game. everyone who doesn't main her will say something. Take 2 call me in the morning.

EZ- yes EZ. even playing right and not farming. He is one of the best DPS sup in the game. think of it like this Lux- no CC-but u bang them in the face QQQQQQQ and bye bye. frost queen then tri then w/e or I like to make majies then be done with ap Im not giving away my secret op pick sorry

Side note You have to decide before hand about your commitment to "adc" if u dont care at all and do w/e u want (recomended) remember he is your human shield if your a strong pick that can carry and ffs season 6 means u got adc in mid,jun,top then fuck him go a mage and use him as cannon fodder. Malizar do what he do

Azure DancerMar 1, 20161 votes

I personaly find supporting quite entertaining especially with Leona. Although I can see why people stay away from it. You can't 1v1 anyone, if your adc is bad you get the short end of the stick too (and I mean bad as really bad), almost no recognition, when enemy adc is fed its always gg feeding bot even if you have close to no deaths. There I'm done.

enraged in flameMar 1, 20161 votes

I love to support I am currently lvl 29 but am looking forward to being able to play support in ranked soon!

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

as a veteran who has been around sense season 3...hmmm could i be called a veteran? aha. well anyway, i've been around for a few years and i heavily advise not jumping into ranked right away. and many others advise this too. There are some things you may not have that you need in order to be prepared, like Runes for example.

There may be some popular champion picks currently that you may have little to no knowledge about, id heavily advise at least glancing at every champions abilities..just giving them a quick once over read. that way if you should get a game with them you may remember some details that may help you.

There is a lot of things you should prepare yourself for before jumping into ranked, remember those 10 matches define where you are going to be placed and will set the pace for the rest of the season.

However you could just jump straight in and take whatever comes at you as it comes like i did. and i have to admit...i knew next to nothing about the game when i played my vary first ranked game..what're objectives? aha.

You pick =) [slayer-jinx-catface] Good luck in your placement matches when you do decide to play them <3.

Kaiser NoahMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=enraged in flame,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BNvEkJh8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-01T18:59:28.478+0000)

I love to support I am currently lvl 29 but am looking forward to being able to play support in ranked soon!

dont play ranked right as u hit thirty or ull do awful.

ZenithEinMar 1, 20161 votes

I'm coming into this as someone that plays support rarely from time to time. While I can have fun playing support, my biggest problem is the sort of reliance you have on your ADC. It drives me up a wall to see an ADC miss last hitting an entire wave. Most of the time, I pick supports that I can solo lane as, that or supports with so much cc that someone can't help but follow up. The role can be rewarding, but because supports aren't in the limelight most of the time, they get shafted.

DrCyanideMar 1, 20161 votes

I think I'm officially done picking Fill or Support for the New Champ Select.

My preferences in general have been Mid First, Support or ADC second, Top third. I can go into a Blind Pick game, say fill, and be happy with the results. I get a variety pack, getting shuffled between all the roles. But the New Champion Select only knows how to shove bodies into a queue. Normal Draft is out of the question for playing on my own.

TeemoXNidaleeMar 1, 20161 votes

Just play a mage bot lane if you don't want to support, you will be much more useful than a real support anyway.

WukongMainMar 1, 20161 votes

i completely agree, whenever i play support i pick Annie, and never feel useless.

Mages are defiantly the way to go if you aren't used to supporting.

SubtweetMar 1, 20161 votes

Considering I'm a support main, it doesn't really matter to me because I almost always get my role.

SilverthaneMar 1, 20161 votes

Supporting feels fun to me sometimes but often times it just feel horrible supporting ppl worse than you or when people ignore you because youre " just a support"

Still id rather take support than jungle.

EmExMar 2, 20161 votes

My god you can't expect everyone to be better than you just cause you support them

BladeSteelMar 2, 20162 votes

Worst is when they're worse than you and think they're better. Then its just toxicity all game long. "this support sucks" "gg guys this support doesn't know how to play". I don't expect eveyone to be better than me when i support them. But they should just freaking shut up about how much "better" they are.

Athenes LuluMar 2, 20161 votes

There are actually support only players, filling mid as secondary, and getting mid quite often. We all know mid is one of the most popular roles, and that support is extremely unpopular. If that's the case, then how come these guys are getting mid?

Yes, shit happens, but when this kind of shit happens, then you can tell something's strange with the matchmaking systems.

At first I mained support because no one takes it... someone has to do the job. Then I found it fun because you're not really playing League of Legends, but a slightly different game where you it is mostly tactic, and hoping that your teammates do something... very little mechanical skill involved. Perfect for people who has garbage mechanics and excellent tactical skill (trust me I should belong in bronze and should never have any badges... but huzzah for supporting and how I can get it so easily). Heck, because of how much tactics you actually need, most people who are not Leona/Thresh/Blitz and is supporting loses my games, and I don't want to see any of that.

I have no problem with not being able to deal damage and not taking kills. I have no problem with getting less exp and gold than everyone else (I mean no shit, they don't farm). Heck, I have no problem being the "ward bitch" because people usually don't know how to utilize those properly and effectively anyways, even though I don't like the Sightstone nerfs. Supporting is mostly playing around your enemies and making sure they have the worst experience possible by not doing damage; that shit's already fun. Even better when you're playing that's perceived as "weak" then kicking their asses in the end anyways. You literally get rewarded for how well you pull off your tactics, not mechanics, which is something I really loved about maining (Lulu) support.

Shitty teammates that don't even know what on earth is a Lulu support, so therefore not knowing how shit works? Oh well, I see that shit everyday, move on. Shitty teammates that have no clue on how to avoid Blitz grabs or something? Pfah, I got plenty of other allies to babysit; it's not the end of the world! Lost lane, or game? Fuck that, I can't win every game, just try to do better next time. All that doesn't make me hate supporting; it is still loads of fun.

But hey, that's just me; that's just my definition of fun. It's definitely different from the majority of players.

Or just take a look at MMO's; people playing "support-y" classes are uncommon, though heavily needed. At least 3/4 of the playerbase in MMOs play some kind of DPS classes (including me), because killing and beating up shit is fun. However, as support, you don't get to kill shit. You don't get much spotlight. You can't even handle on your own! It is no surprise that the support role, in general, is unpopular.

Unless they get to deal tons of damage (Annie/Brand/Vel'Koz), get lots of glory and be able to look flashy (Thresh/Leona/Blitz), or even create an extra source of gold/exp on the map (which is not really possible), the role in general would be unpopular. "Do less damage than your teammates, function even with reduced gold/exp, rely on lots of teamwork (due to less damage) instead of just individual skill, and just save your (probably stupid) teammates" is already unappealing enough for a lot of people.

2 cents for ya, also explaining why people just don't play that role anymore. Unless this game gets some kind of overhaul, support will remain unpopular.

WadeWilson1337Mar 2, 20161 votes

I main jungle, but i started this game by maining Blitzcrank. After realizing the, uhm, character, of most ADCs, i have realized the only champion i can pick to babysit them in lane and then hopefully ignore them and hope the rest of my team can do something when i make plays is . I love Blitzcrank, but i dont want my match history to be 14 Blitzcrank games, an Udyr, 2 Shyvanas, an Amumu, an Elise, and one Soraka game because i just could not play another Blitz game.

BladeSteelMar 2, 20161 votes

Part of me doesn't want to support because of all the toxicity you get from the team/adc. If the adc is dumb and feeds it is your fault. if the adc doesn't have as much farm its your fault. if the adc doesn't like what you do you get spammed "enemy missing" pings. you don't get gold if you're tanky because everyone takes all the cs late game so you can't proc your fotm passive. It is honestly just a horrible feeling being a support most of the time.

EmExMar 2, 20161 votes

Please take a look at my thread concerning the support role and que time; http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NpNiNZfi-making-support-more-fun-to-play

GenghisEmoMar 2, 20161 votes

Supp use to be fun. Now it is boring, or unrewarding, unless u use off meta UP champ and beat an OP that played well (then it is a learning experience).

Now ur more reliant on ur ADC. And then those few that supp, now seem more likelier than before, to be absolutely reckless. A meta that caters to lack of strategic diversity i guess? Out of positioning for days.

And when i supp, the ADCs seem more self centered. Obviosly, game is centered around them.

Supps also feel weak, with exception of few. Super low income roams were more better before, now they r not. Item expensive.

Garvin58Mar 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When people put support as their secondary role, They get support 90% of the time. (or so they say).

Looked at my ranked history. I always put primary: Jungle secondary: Support. Last 15 games: 12 support, 3 jungle. So it only FEELS like 90%. It's actually only 80% (However, last 14 games were 12 support, 2 jungle, so maybe 85%?)

People need to start putting support as one of their roles.

I disagree... kinda. I don't want to play jungle if it means my support will be someone that never plays support but just wants to get into a game as fast as they can. The game and community as a whole would be better served if we were all more encouraging to the current supports out there...

4:47 [ALL] MyADC: UGh! This support sucks. Report! 4:53 [ALL] EnemyADC: Why? He's saved your life like three times already. 5:03 [ALL] EnemySup: Right. It's your fault you're 0/4/0.

Paraphrasing from foggy memory, but this was an actual exchange in one of my support games. I got more encouragement from the enemy team than my own ADC.

If enough people do this, the long queues will disappear.

What long que times? I'd say I average about 15 seconds in both ranked and normals. What are the rest of you dealing with?

I think what I'd like to see is some type of mechanic that allows support to feel useful / rewarding even when your ADC can't last hit, ignores your wards and pings, blames you, and then continues to push and feed when you leave and support mid instead. Good luck RIOT.

WukongMainMar 14, 20161 votes

What long que times? I'd say I average about 15 seconds in both ranked and normals. What are the rest of you dealing with?

This was a little while ago, i have noticed the queue timers decrease :).

Kitty ClarissaMar 1, 2016

Honestly i love supporting but the past few days supporting is something i been not having fun due to well ADC not minding others CD and my mana bar at times. Like i get support 100% of the time i put mid/supp , bot/supp , or fill i get support 70% of the time so i am taking a break from support for that reason, If i pull ahead as Top/Mid i can at least help crush the bruiser Yi's that try to get kills on me. But then again i dont have high mechanical skill really and im still trying to learn Caitlyn . As support i do love to play harass supports as i like to keep my enemy down for the early game, I dont need to 1v1 the carry at all , i just want my ADC to pull ahead and push to victory. Im not supporting for a few days sadly.