@Medler, can you do a test on the PBE where u give draven his old passive and see how it will react on him, I mean you buffed most of the ADC's since season 6 started, but you ignored Draven, and his win rate has been dropped really hard, and will be dropped more after 6.4, and especially in this Tank meta and juggernauts, can you do a test and see how his old passive will react on him?
Calabok19 votesNO
Heckin Support13 votesNO
Ptsd
Crett2 votesYour Icon fits this really well
RiotMeddler8 votesWe don't feel Draven's bleed passive was good for the game so reintroducing it's not something we'd want to test. Draven's current passive isn't perfect, but it does shift some of his power to later in the game, provides some strong highs/lows depending on when he can/can't cash in and fits pretty well with Draven's showman nature. His old passive by contrast made him both more of an early bully and made it harder to appreciate his exact damage output. Certainly sad about the loss of the blood brothers connection with Darius, we felt that was a case where gameplay had to take priority over thematics though.
As a side note we're not seeing any drastic drops in Draven's perfomance. Statistics aren't everything of course, looking at them though he's pretty much exactly average in win rate for experienced players, at both high and low elo.
Declined2 votesMy problem with Draven this season is mostly the item changes. Draven is one of the few champions with no AP scaling, yet incredible AD scaling, and only mediocre usefulness off AS (W) but across the board AD items have been nerfed and AS items buffed. Crit is now a larger factor but tied with the AS items and overall AD nerf, it turns into a net nerf for Draven.
Draven BASE ATTACK DAMAGE 50.38 ⇒ 55.8 ATTACK DAMAGE GROWTH STAT 3.5 ⇒ 2.91
In regards to scaling, Draven is an early game monster and lane bully, who relies on his (current) snowball passive to outscale his opponents. Or rather he used to be, the 5.42 increased starting AD but overall decreased starting AD (mastery changes) and decreased AD per level means he's losing his early game advantage required for his passive, the changes to penetration and items overall means he can't snowball as hard to compensate and therefore almost every other adc outscale him between level 6-13.
Draven BASE MANA 310.56 ⇒ 360.56 MANA GROWTH STAT 42 ⇒ 39 (No regen changes)
Mana is also a problem, and even as a superb juggler the cost on W is just too high, when used in sucession he risk running out immediately. (Making plays) If I drop one axe the added mana is now spent. I would increase his base mana regen now that there are no more blue pots, and I have to make bigger flashier plays to achieve the same level of performance that I did last season. It would also be nice if some of the mana cost was refunded when you have 2 axes spinning and catch an additional axe or activate Q again. Or to let it run on an ammo count, with a 6 sec cd, so rather than dropping both axes once the 6 seconds are up, he'll only lose one.
I would argue that Draven is in a far worse position now and the decreased animation and missile speed is only a fraction of the problems he's facing.
Cherysse1 votesMeddler the problem is, now, that games snowball too quickly and it is harder to reach late game, plus the nerfs on general AS and buffing crit, he stands on a middle ground, because Draven is a champ that scales real hard in this order AD - CRIT - ARMOR PEN - AS.
You can obtain an item that grants AD and Crit: 
But you can't obtain an item that grants AD, Crit and Armor Pen: the old 
Actually you could just solve his win ratio issue by taking a look at wich items you are recommending on him:
He would benefit more of 
in a midgame than a 
or a 
You should also consider to test if adding 5% more critical into the math of the could help.
Right now the only 2 things that scale in this item (in terms of stats) is the HP and the AD from the 
. LITERALLY, the upgrade only means 10 more AD and 50 HP, which is 450 gold worth that you are paying for, and the stat upgrade.
It could at least use a buff towards 5% crit and 5% AS by making it cost 200 more gold, because if we are already paying 3800 gold for this, I wouldn't mind to pay 200 more knowing that it will be better.
ALSO: adding 
to his recommended build could solve a lot.
And he could take benefit of this item finally being included on the rift: 
(reworked, new icon, but keeping the AD-Crit-Bleed relation).
Because being honest, he doesn't take too much adavantage of building AS, with 40-50% he is ok, so that he can catch his 2 axes and keep attacking.
Just a recommendation.
[slayer-jinx-catface]
La Bello2 votesWe don't feel Draven's bleed passive was good for the game so reintroducing it's not something we'd want to test. Draven's current passive isn't perfect, but it does shift some of his power to later in the game, provides some strong highs/lows depending on when he can/can't cash in and fits pretty well with Draven's showman nature. His old passive by contrast made him both more of an early bully and made it harder to appreciate his exact damage output. Certainly sad about the loss of the blood brothers connection with Darius, we felt that was a case where gameplay had to take priority over thematics though.
As a side note we're not seeing any drastic drops in Draven's perfomance. Statistics aren't everything of course, looking at them though he's pretty much exactly average in win rate for experienced players, at both high and low elo.
except at 6 Item lategame you literally DONT HAVE A PASSIVE....
HOW IS THIS GOOD?
If I remember correctly the reasoning behind removing old passive was to reduce his snowballing but then RIOT added a PURELY snowballing passive. I just dont understand why would you make a character dependent on killstealing(securing).
What about game modes where gold wont matter? Why crutch a character like this.
While I did find the bleed to be a little to strong sometimes I believe that his current passive is completely underwhelming and is worse by far. I would really like for Riot to revisit Draven and his passive. I think his passive should reward Dravens who push their mechanical limit not the ones with good supports or teammates to feed him.
RiotMeddler6 votesSome passives, such as Zilean's and Draven's, will stop contributing if a game goes long enough. Few games get to level 18 or 6 items though, so we feel that's an acceptable cost that's more than outweighed by the extra design space that interactions with gold and XP allow.
In terms of snowball a passive that offers future gold, with some requirements to get it, is significantly less snowbally than simply starting with substantially higher raw power from level 1 in lane.
Dependence on kill does have some downsides, both in terms of player satisfaction/expectations of kill ownership and team interaction. It does give some great game to game variance though and allows for some positive teamplay moments as well, particularly since putting kills onto a marksman is usually the correct play regardless.
La Bello1 votesSome passives, such as Zilean's and Draven's, will stop contributing if a game goes long enough. Few games get to level 18 or 6 items though, so we feel that's an acceptable cost that's more than outweighed by the extra design space that interactions with gold and XP allow.
In terms of snowball a passive that offers future gold, with some requirements to get it, is significantly less snowbally than simply starting with substantially higher raw power from level 1 in lane.
Dependence on kill does have some downsides, both in terms of player satisfaction/expectations of kill ownership and team interaction. It does give some great game to game variance though and allows for some positive teamplay moments as well, particularly since putting kills onto a marksman is usually the correct play regardless.
"putting kills into the marksman is usually the correct play"
except it doesnt always work that way. usually most players are looking to remove the enemy from the fight AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. waiting for your marksmen to deliver the finishing blow might result in a lost kill(seriously 
) or a turnaround lets not for forget league is a game where ever second matters and really this only enforces the " OMG DUMB SUPPORT KS ME REPORT" mentality that already plagues most beginners looking to learn carry roles.
Personally I dont think passives that dont exsist in the late game are healthy because at late game when you inevitably duel another 6 item person it leaves the question "could I have won that if I had a passive" or "was that fight really on even footing?".I honestly think this passive along with 
should be replaced with something or equal Invisible power. Even something as simple as "Draven ignores unit collision while an Axe is in the air" would suffice.
[ Some passives, such as Zilean's and Draven's, will stop contributing if a game goes long enough. Few games get to level 18 or 6 items though, so we feel that's an acceptable cost that's more than outweighed by the extra design space that interactions with gold and XP allow.
In terms of snowball a passive that offers future gold, with some requirements to get it, is significantly less snowbally than simply starting with substantially higher raw power from level 1 in lane.]
But I thought Riot HATED invisible power and on that note
how come global gold passives such as old
were removed?
ICantNameMe1 votesWhat about Syndra's passive? It literally only applies at 4 levels (9,13,16,18) and it doesn't even do that much for her considering her win rate drops off pretty hard as game duration increases. She hasn't been a very good pick since her Q was nerfed by 20 damage at rank 1 and she has problems as an immobile mage; will she be seeing any changes/buffs in the upcoming update?
Sightless663 votesIf I remember correctly the reasoning behind removing old passive was to reduce his snowballing but then RIOT added a PURELY snowballing passive.
The reasoning was to lower his early game power. The snowballing was secondary to that problem. He was snowballing because he was just stronger than everyone else early game, and that was the core issue. The new passive doesn't make him stronger than everyone else early game just by default. It gives him a reward if he's doing well, and that can start a snowball, but he actually has to do something in order to be stronger than other champions. That's way better than snowballing because you're just stronger right out of the gate.
except at 6 Item lategame you literally DONT HAVE A PASSIVE.
Honestly, I don't care. Very few games make it to 6 items, a small percentage of those spend a significant amount of time at 6 items, and even then he's still stronger at 6 items than plenty of other champions are. I don't really care if a passive stops functioning in the very end of a very small portion of my games.
What about game modes where gold wont matter?
What about them? Even in ARAM he does perfectly fine, and that's about as much of a gold-guaranteed mode as the game has ever had. Again, I'm not seeing a real problem. If he's still preforming at a perfectly acceptable level there, then what's wrong?
RottedApples1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEWzaHQi,comment-id=000c0002,timestamp=2016-02-25T23:01:37.858+0000)
except at 6 Item lategame you literally DONT HAVE A PASSIVE....
HOW IS THIS GOOD?
: Hi guys i'm meta
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png
ZaNJeTsU2 votesyou can give him some buff, or make a low dmg bleeding passive, whatever u say, it's been a year for me playing draven, and it's not fair when a person take low mechanic adc like kog or Miss Fortune, and win over you just because this season Draven main build path 
, has been destroyed, because of the changes you made to the items, Ignoring the existence of Draven, and his hard Mechanics, I treid most of the Items on him after season 6, whatever u tried, since the game has become snowballing lanes game, and since there are a lot of low mechanics adc who have more dmg than Draven, Draven win Rate will continue to drop down, patch after the another, on the other side u buffed the other's adcs from the hardest Mechanics (Kalista) to the most easy Mechanics (Kog & Miss Fortune& other's).
Thats not Fair at all!!!
Solidair36 voteslmao absolutely not. I'm not saying he couldn't use a little bump, but I refuse absolutely to go back to that bleed bullshit. Making it impossible to trade with him is a dumb move and not acceptable at all.
I'd buff his AS growth a bit.
Metalrichdog5 votesI gotta say that Draven doesn't feel like the massive hard carry that he was in his glory days, nor is he fairing as well as he did before this season. Pretty much if you want to deal a large amount of damage, there are generally safer options that also take much less effort to pull off. Though what I will say, however, is that Draven isn't weak nor will he ever be truly weak in any meta really. Draven is just that champ that has both good sustained damage (If you're good with him) and decent burst. The only reason Draven can be considered weak is really when the other ADCs are overbearingly strong (Thus he rarely receives any balance attention)
ZT Xperimentor2 votesI'd be willing to give it a thumbs-up, at least draven takes some skill to play unlike the vast majority in his class.
Ariel the Cruel3 votesHis old passive took a lot of the skill requirement out of his kit. He hit like a freight train, then walked away while you bled to death.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesI'm aware of that; I'm refering to catching his spinning axes, at least he has to or reactivate the ability if he wants empowered auto-atacks. Unlike nearly every other ranged physical carry that just right clicks to win.
Jbels1 votesTank meta, sure sure. Juggernaut meta? Don't make me laugh
Masala Chai1 votesAnd another d in the @ dear
@Meddler sweetums.
HayRoss1 votesBut... But... Draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaven...
VladimirSnakeyes1 votes[deleted]
Troll for Trump2 votesHe's one of the hardest ADCs, if not the hardest. The curve should be much more steeper.
VladimirSnakeyes1 votes[deleted]
Troll for Trump2 votesNo, I meant he should be more rewarding for players who are better at playing him, so yes buffs, but not the old buff. As mentioned by others, the old buff made it so any guy could pick him up and win trades easily, making it rewarding for players who aren't good at playing Draven. But he does need buffs of some sort to keep up with the things of present
Oelyk1 voteswhats dravens old passive
WolfBV6 votes[{quoted}](name=Lazy cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEWzaHQi,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-25T02:44:05.820+0000)
whats dravens old passive
Every crit did 30 + (4xlevel) physical damage over 4 seconds. Spinning axes apply this every hit.
TonyTonyMordecai1 votesOh... I thought it was just with crits... that sounds way worse than what I originally thought it was.
Solidair37 votesHe applied a bleed on crits and spinning axe hits. It made it impossible to trade with him at ALL early on. He was so oppressive that unless he REALLY fucked up, he couldn't lose lane phase.
Papa Slothy1 votesNOPE BAD IDEA
Olshaw1 votesI have a 68% win rate.... So yes please buff him so people ban him and pick him.
Meep Man1 votesI think Warlord's will help him a lot since now he won't have to pick up a Vampiric in the laning phase anymore.
That being said, I do think Draven could use a better passive. Gold passives are generally boring and/or too good.
Declined2 votesI disagree, BT is a core item on him for a few reasons.
Debonair DRAVEN1 votesWarlords is garbage for ADC now. It's tailored for bruisers now since it doesn't work off crit or give AS. Also the threshold to get the 20% LS doesnt really allow marksmen to benefit from it cause you'll most likely die.
Tyre1 votesHis old passive would have been fine IMO if it only applied on axe autos instead of also crits. What they should do if his passive is going to stay is add a %health execute on his ult, I mean, he IS the executioner after all. His ult seems like the worst out of the 4, Jinx, Ashe, Ezreal, and him, I mean, even Jinx's ult is an execute, what a joke.
