tryndamere can't teamfight, only split push

ACENOX·Jan 24, 2016·8 votes·1,563 views

because unlike other melee carries he doesn't have a way to deal with tanks. gangplank gets true damage+armor pene yasuo gets armor pene yi and fiora gets true damage

what about tryndamere riot?

54 Comments

warpenguin555Jan 24, 20167 votes

they should give him that yes, but also Riot should make him less frustrating to play against as well.

Best princess EUJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

they should give him that yes, but also Riot should make him less frustrating to play against as well.

makes his ulti short duration increased with basic attacks, rewarding you to kit him in an 1v1 but makes him stronger in teamfight.

warpenguin555Jan 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-01-24T15:58:57.405+0000)

makes his ulti short duration increased with basic attacks, rewarding you to kit him in an 1v1 but makes him stronger in teamfight.

not a bad idea.

YossarianSenseiJan 24, 20161 votes

I don't know what kind of Trynds you're playing against but I get way more autos in a 1v1 or 1v2 than I do in a teamfight

TheVishualJan 24, 20165 votes

{quoted}

because unlike other melee carries he doesn't have a way to deal with tanks. gangplank gets true damage+armor pene yasuo gets armor pene yi and fiora gets true damage

what about tryndamere riot?

Tank is not the issue... it's getting kited by anyone with a slow/form of cc

KONO RUBICK DAJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Tank is not the issue... it's getting kited by anyone with a slow/form of cc

and who brings CC? Tanks. And tryndamere can't even kill them to get ride of the kit.

MelledoneusJan 24, 20161 votes

Many ADCs and carries have self peel. Tryndamere's only weakness is CC. Why take away his only weakness?

Also, try building item 3153 and item 3124 on Trynd. Those tanks will melt.

Slamurai JackJan 24, 20165 votes

Tank's aren't why Trynd can't teamfight, although they tend to be indirectly related. He can't teamfight because he's absurdly easy to peel and control and no other reason. Yes, all those champions you listed have tools to make them do more damage to tanks. You know what else they also have? Anti-kiting and anti-focus tools.

GP can attack from range, slow enemies with both his barrels and his ult, gains a speedboost whenever he detonates a barrel, and can cleanse himself of any CC at least once per fight.

Yasuo has his dashes, his ult, and his knockup to get into fights and help him stick to enemies as well as his wall to protect himself against ranged focus fire and block out projectile based peeling abilities.

Fiora has her ult to give her consistent speed when near the ulted target, a very low CD dash to allow her to constantly move around the fight, a slow on her E, her parry to reflect CC and avoid being focused, and her ult to give him more safety after killing her target.

All Trynd has is his spin which has a long CD unless you constantly crit enemies, his slow which only slows enemies that are facing away from him, and his ult to keep him from dying instantly to any focus fire. He really doesn't have the tools to teamfight against proper team comps, but he's an amazing 1v1 duelist with high chasing power assuming his opponent doesn't get help. That's why he split pushes all game instead of teamfighting.

ACENOXJan 24, 20161 votes

i see, thank you. but you said that tanks are related to his problem you didn't explain why.

Slamurai JackJan 24, 20162 votes

Tanks are generally the ones doing the peeling. Trynd really doesn't have a way to get past the likes of Maokai Braum Nautilus Rammus Volibear Sejuani etc. He doesn't really have the tools to protect himself from being locked down by these champions either. GP, Fiora, and Yasuo all have the tools necessary to bypass or play around all of these champions. Other melee carries such as MasterYi Riven also have tools to allow them to teamfight when those kind of champs are present. Tryndamere really has no recourse against them because not only can he not deal with the control that these tanks exert, but he also doesn't have any tank busting abilities to simply burn through them either.

KONO RUBICK DAJan 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2016-01-24T18:59:03.680+0000)

Tanks are generally the ones doing the peeling. Trynd really doesn't have a way to get past the likes of etc. He doesn't really have the tools to protect himself from being locked down by these champions either. GP, Fiora, and Yasuo all have the tools necessary to bypass or play around all of these champions. Other melee carries such as also have tools to allow them to teamfight when those kind of champs are present. Tryndamere really has no recourse against them because not only can he not deal with the control that these tanks exert, but he also doesn't have any tank busting abilities to simply burn through them either.

by reading tryndamere's ability do you have an idea to how fixe him?

Slamurai JackJan 24, 20164 votes

{quoted}

by reading tryndamere's ability do you have an idea to how fixe him?

I don't really have a problem with Tryndameres identity of the split pushing god with terrible teamfighting, so I don't really see a need to "fix" him in that respect. I do, however, have some very serious issues with how he functions based on his current identity. The biggest issue is his passive: free crit chance early in the laning phase makes laning against him basically a game of chance. Either he gets his crits and wrecks you or doesn't and dies horribly. And Tryndamere is an extremely snowbally champion in both directions. He wins that early all in? His snowball is basically unstoppable unless you camp the ever loving shit out of him. He loses that all in? He gets all inned every time he tries to CS with no hope of recovery unless his jungler camps his lane.

MelledoneusJan 24, 20163 votes

Cc is Trynd's problem. Tanks have CC. But tanks are not the problem.

Basically, he's saying Trynd doesn't have a way to deal with CC slowing him down or getting kited. Gangplank gets speed boosts, Fiora might as well be Riven and Udyr's fusion, and Yasuo has options. Tryndamere is a squishy juggernaut with a dash.

Sneakyy XDJan 24, 20164 votes

Why would you want to be hitting the tanks?

D357R0Y3RJan 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Why would you want to be hitting the tanks?

a carry should be able to destroy all targets

3ofGot40veJan 24, 20162 votes

a carry should be able to destroy all other carries and widdle down tanks.

Sneakyy XDJan 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

a carry should be able to destroy all targets

Then what the point of a tank be?

Also, that didn't answer my question.

AhristocatsJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Then what the point of a tank be?

Also, that didn't answer my question.

the point of tanks is to die for their carry, it's better if a tank dies rather than a carry, that's the whole reason they are called "tank", because they should eat all the damage, and the point of tanks is also to brings CC.

in tryndamere case, OP is right. Trynd can't do shit against DrMundo Malphite Rammus Sion if they aren't behind. Which forces trynd to split push.

Sneakyy XDJan 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-24T15:05:28.028+0000)

the point of tanks is to die for their carry, it's better if a tank dies rather than a carry

But it would still be better to bring a carry in that tank's place, since carries could destroy tanks and other carries

ACENOXJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But it would still be better to bring a carry in that tank's place, since carries could destroy tanks and other carries

and while they destroy tanks, the enemy carry destroyed all your team since tanks takes more damage and you didn't pick a single of them

Sneakyy XDJan 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

and while they destroy tanks, the enemy carry destroyed all your team since tanks takes more damage and you didn't pick a single of them

You would have four things that destroy and five things that get destroyed while I would have five things that destroy and five things that get destroyed. In a game where tanks should get destroyed by carries, there is no way your team would come out victorious.

KONO RUBICK DAJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You would have four things that destroy and five things that get destroyed while I would have five things that destroy and five things that get destroyed. In a game where tanks should get destroyed by carries, there is no way your team would come out victorious.

then explain to me why tanks dies in every teamfight? you can't pass through tanks, or you will get kited and cc'ed by tanks, there is a reason that in LCS every carry focuses the tank, because with how well ADC are positioned you can't touch them you have to destroy the wall in front of you first (unless the ADC missplayed and was in the middle of the fight).

the point of tanks, is to take damage instead of their carry takes damage, because they can take more damage, in a game where tanks are destroyed by carries there is a way your team is victorious,

it's if you killed the enemy tank before your enemies killed your tank, then you won.

in tryndamere case, tanks should get killed instead of their adc, not being immortal in front of him while cc'ing him and the carry being untouchable.

that's the whole reason why gangplank got 40% armor pene on his barrels, before his 1k crit damage was nothing on tanks and gangplank has no defense if he goes in melee, meaning that he was forced to attack from range, but his attacks were useless on tanks.

Sneakyy XDJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

then explain to me things that currently happen

Tanks don't currently get destroyed by carries, though we are getting close.

MelledoneusJan 24, 20161 votes

That's supposed to be the case. But Riot keeps nerfing tanks until they become wholly unviable. Don't believe me? When was the last time there was a major set of buffs for tank items? For tanks?

Also, Fiora exists. Your argument is invalid while she exists.

ACENOXJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's supposed to be the case. But Riot keeps nerfing tanks until they become wholly unviable. Don't believe me? When was the last time there was a major set of buffs for tank items? For tanks?

Also, Fiora exists. Your argument is invalid while she exists.

my argument is that tanks shouldn't be unkillable, but their point is to take damage for their ADC who kills the whole enemy team, and like zeus said the one who kill the enemy tank first wins.

MelledoneusJan 24, 20161 votes

Tanks aren't supposed to be unkillable, but it's unfair to make an item that counters their entire build.

cuddlykitten4Jan 24, 20161 votes

The point of a tank is to hold aggro. A good tank should never die.

CritkeeperJan 24, 20164 votes

Just make mocking shout 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% bonus armor reduction for 4 seconds rather than 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 attack damage reduction for 4 seconds.

Stars ShaperJan 24, 20162 votes

Tryndamere can go directly for squishies in the backline and kill 2-3 of them before his passive wears off.

ACENOXJan 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-24T14:34:38.484+0000)

Tryndamere can go directly for squishies in the backline and kill 2-3 of them before his passive wears off.

so can Tryndamere Jax Fiora Yasuo

Stars ShaperJan 24, 20162 votes

Except that Yasuo and Fiora can be killed much more easily. Also we are not talking about 1vs5

AhristocatsJan 24, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-24T14:54:34.789+0000)

Except that Yasuo and Fiora can be killed much more easily. Also we are not talking about 1vs5

yasuo is the harder champ to kill of all champs above. Not only he has 600 hp shield that can be refreshed via ulti. But his windwall can bait up so much cc and damage for 4 seconds, and he has a tornado every 3.99 seconds.

Stars ShaperJan 24, 20161 votes

His windwall is used when he is a lot far from the enemies and doesn't work against more than half of CCs, any melee champion will just walk over him and he would melt instantly as he tries to get to our carries.

KONO RUBICK DAJan 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-24T15:16:11.547+0000)

His windwall is used when he is a lot far from the enemies and doesn't work against more than half of CCs, any melee champion will just walk over him and he would melt instantly as he tries to get to our carries.

how many non telegraphed cc goes through windwall? not many, not even half of league's cc since riot finds them anti-fun with no counterplay and somehow deletes them

and yasuo doesn't dashes to your carries, he flies over them with his ulti either by landing a tornado or by having someone with a knockup in his team. then his Q deals like 1000 damage with a crit and statik shiv, there is a reason why yasuo was the only viable melee carry in competition before Gangplank Fiora got reworked

Stars ShaperJan 24, 20161 votes

So you are posing a situation whyere:

You don't have any melee with CC.
You all stacked up against a team with an AoE knockupper and Yasuo or your whole team got his by a telegraphed slow moving skillshot.
None of you has any base armor, only bonus armor (because you know, his Ulti gives 50% Bonus Armor penetration).
After the knockup no1 has focused Yasuo.

Not sorry to say that in such a situation you guys behaved so poorly that Malphite could have killed you all by himself building AP.

Best princess EUJan 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-24T15:28:39.118+0000)

So you are posing a situation whyere:

You don't have any melee with CC.

You all stacked up against a team with an AoE knockupper and Yasuo or your whole team got his by a telegraphed slow moving skillshot.

None of you has any base armor, only bonus armor (because you know, his Ulti gives 50% Bonus Armor penetration).

After the knockup no1 has focused Yasuo.

Not sorry to say that in such a situation you guys behaved so poorly that Malphite could have killed you all by himself building AP.

can't see what you didn't understand

zeus didn't say that they were stacked, didn't say that they didn't focus yasuo, just that yasuo unleashed 1000 damage to the carry with one Q after ultying him because Malphite or ultied the adc, didn't say that none has any base armor, didn't say that they didn't have any melee cc,

MelledoneusJan 24, 20162 votes

Fiora doesn't need to get to the backline. She just needs to blow up the front line and cleave her way to the backline with her absolutely bullshit damage.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so can

jax doesn't have true damage or armor pene. anyway. build the new last whisper. your crit increase should suffice in killing tanks. tryndamere can kill tanks because he can build all max ad items and crit hits at twice what an adc crit is.

ACENOXJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

jax doesn't have true damage or armor pene. anyway. build the new last whisper. your crit increase should suffice in killing tanks. tryndamere can kill tanks because he can build all max ad items and crit hits at twice what an adc crit is.

jax unlike trynd has magic damage every 1 or 1.5 seconds. did you see one time a tank rushing item 1031 + item 1057 ? unless they did they will take A LOT of damage by jax's W and R passive.

Got New GlassesJan 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5ifsej7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-24T14:34:38.484+0000)

Tryndamere can go directly for squishies in the backline and kill 2-3 of them before his passive wears off.

and then get insta killed by Graves or cc'ed by Alistar until his 5 seconds ends?

Stars ShaperJan 24, 20161 votes

Unfortunally that isn't a problem for Trynda only xD

ValyrianBladeJan 24, 20162 votes

What's wrong with that identity?

Tryndamere is an amazing splitpusher and can pretty much win a game by himself just by constantly pressuring the towers in a lane until he breaks in to your base. That's a pretty strong identity.

Furthermore, Tryndamere CAN teamfight, just differently. A tryndamere should NOT be grouping as 5. He should be splitpushing. When a teamfight breaks out he should be running towards it or teleporting in to it (depending on the circumstances). Once he arrives, all of the significant CC abilities should be on CD and tryndamere gets to have a hay-day destroying the back line (especially since he's flanking, there isn't the front line in the way).

He's much like Katarina in that sense. He can teamfight, really well actually, he just needs to make really careful decisions about when to join the fight. A Katarina that hops in and ults as soon as her team engages will be CC'd and killed before she gets her first reset. Likewise, a tryndamere that attempts to dash through the front line and blow up the back line will be CC'd through his ultimate and killed immediately afterwards. They both need to pay attention to which cooldowns are used and go in afterwards. If the enemy opts to save some good CC then perhaps they don't have quite the same level of power, but simultaneously that ability was never used on an ally. Tryndamere has the advantage here as he can splitpush while he waits for his opportunity. Kat literally just hides.

YossarianSenseiJan 24, 20162 votes

Trynd's actually relatively terrible right now

Too many meta champs shyt on his face, his worst nightmare is tanky dudes who he can't kill but kill him very quickly.

Also splitpushing is pretty ineffective when it's not uncommon for inhib to be open at 15 minutes

BaunjoJan 24, 20162 votes

Honestly, I understand that it becomes frustrating for both teams to deal with tryndamere split push, but honestly, while he cannot teamfight, his splitpushing is EXCEPTIONAL. Like to the point where honestly, tryndamere cannot be confronted by less than 3 people if they expect to kill him

ACENOXJan 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I understand that it becomes frustrating for both teams to deal with tryndamere split push, but honestly, while he cannot teamfight, his splitpushing is EXCEPTIONAL. Like to the point where honestly, tryndamere cannot be confronted by less than 3 people if they expect to kill him

No, tryndamere split pushes because his ulti gives him 5 free seconds where he can attack the tower/inhib while the enemy can do nothing but see him. then he dies but he repeats this until he wins the game.

QuephaJan 24, 20162 votes

It's ok for tryndamere to be better and worse at things than other champions.

Shrek LuigiJan 24, 20162 votes

item 3153 item 3033

No. Tryn can kill anybody who doesn't kill him first into the lategame. He is one of the highest-scaling hypercarries in the game--in the same vein as Vayne or pre-rework Fiora. Outsustaining other Champs (like tanks) during scraps is literally a core part of their identity lol. The reason he can't teamfight is because he's prone to being harassed or peeled off and has little in the way of dealing with it.

I don't think anone who's played this game for more than a day would consider Tryn to be underpowered either, so why give him teamfighting potential on top of what he's already got?