I Sona, Therefore I Troll.

Sonasaurous··15 votes·1,768 views

Hello, I'm just a forum hopper who usually jumps on the Sona threads and argues with the Sona Mains who whine and complain that Sona sucks. I'm here to talk about how Sona is BS and is fine as she is. Let the downvotes pour in.

Warning: Prepare for a wall of text.

Background about me: I started playing near the end of Season 3 (therefore my experience is invalidated because I haven't been playing since Season 1), and I've played at least 200 games with Sona at this point (I honestly don't know, that's just a guesstimate). I recently tried my hand at ranked, won 3 games of my provisionals, and only played Sona for two of those ten games out of peer pressure to play other champions. Got placed in Bronze 1 (therefore my opinion doesn't matter because I iz r scrub and don't know what I'm talking about because I'm not Plat or higher). Judge me as you will, it will not change my ability to confidently play Sona in every game and various roles.

I started playing Sona because 1) I identified with her character and theme, 2) she is a utility mage support, which is a role I like to play across various video games, and 3) she is a very easy and friendly champion to pick up and learn, especially when first starting out in League, and is even more fun to master. I'm not saying I'm a master Sona player, I'm just saying that I'm comfortable enough with her to the point that I don't even worry about "counters" and I happily play her top or mid whenever my team is cooperative enough, and I usually fare pretty well.

The other "Sona Mains" will happily shove numbers and win-rates/pick-rates down your throat to prove that, statistically speaking, Sona is in a terrible place compared to every other champion in the game. That crap means literally nothing to me.

For those of you who have this misconception that Sona is an AP Mid Support Carry champion, stop. Just no. Sona was never an AP Mid Support Carry champion, like AnnieMorganaVelkoz, and should not be played as such. She is a utility support. She, like, buffs her team and things. I like to call Sona my walking AoE support item, because that's what she is. Need temporary increased damage/shield/heal/MS or instant burst damage/reduced damage/slow on enemy? I gotchu. And that's without items. If you go into a game expecting to carry your team to victory with Sona, you will be very disappointed.

Why is Sona fun to play? Because she is a lane bully support, of course! That Q damage is real and is, arguably, unfun to play against. Even when people pick ThreshBlitzcrankLeona to counter the Sona lane abuse. I mean, no worries about Sona when you can grab her and explode her to itty bits with one hit, right? Some people may complain that Sona is too squishy, that her range requires her to get too close to the enemy. I say that's something called "balance," considering the amount of damage that she does. The difference between a good Sona and a stupid Sona is her ability to sidestep the grab. Seriously. If you get caught as Sona, you deserve it for being in a position for them to get you. So how then, do you avoid the Q damage? Well, a good Morgana Shield can do the trick (and it blocks the stun on the ult, in case you never knew that), as can Sivir's spell shield, and Lulu, Janna and Lux's shield can negate the damage. Thresh also has a shield. Go figure, shields op. Q+ Passive = extra burst damage on auto. Never a bad thing.

Why else is she fun to play? Because those heals are OP...late game, of course. Honestly, if you see a Sona player spamming W early game, please punish her. She'll have no mana to defend herself. Again, some people may complain that the nerfs to her heal and mana cost on W makes the heal completely useless. Yeah because remember pre-rework in laning phase, where Sona used to be way too oppressive? How is it not toxic for a support to deal insane amount of damage AND have a decent heal early game? There was a reason that was modified. Would you rather have the strong poke and weak heal early game, or the weak poke and strong heal? You can only have one, and I happily take the strong poke over the heal--which, by the way, if you're doing your support duties correctly anyway, you shouldn't need the heal even when you take it. Honestly, I take W at level 2, then proceed not to use it (except, of course, when the ADC is being focused) until after I put a second point into it after level 6. The E is more useful than the W at early levels, and I still take that at level 4. Poke Sona is OP. Besides, the heal is more intended for mid/late game during teamfights, and by then the heal and shield are complete OP BS. My team doesn't die so long as I am alive. It's hilarious. W + Passive = reduced damage from enemy. Again, never a bad thing.

You certainly can't say anything positive about her deadass E. That totally useless MS steroid. Totally useless, especially when I use it to chase down enemies or run away. Especially when running away. You shall not catch me, I shall not die, my team shall proceed to win because I'm buffing them to hell and back. Trollololol. (Which is completely offset by her long cd on E and the fact that if you do catch her, she's dead. Slows OP.) Seriously, whoever thinks movement speed is terrible needs to gtfo. The only thing I can really say about E is that I wish the passive increased movement speed to nearby minions was still a thing. But that makes Sona an asset to pushing lanes, and that would be too OP. I guess. (rito pls). E + Passive = slow on enemy. How is this a bad thing and why do I not see other Sonas using this more often? OH RIGHT, refer to the "Sona is not an AP Mid Support Carry" section.

Then there's the ult. The stun. The damage. The raging enemy team when they're dumb enough to clump together when I'm Eing in on them with my team. Here's a suggestion: item 3140 or summoner 4. Or if you have a knockback ability...but you didn't hear that from me...

Let's briefly review thus far: Sona has two damage abilities and three utility abilities. One of her damage abilities is her ult, so she's clearly not spamming that, while the other is her cleanup Q. (I call it cleanup Q because that's how Sona double kills are obtained. Lol, once it's a teamfight, I have no regrets. Trollololol). Then she has three utility abilities. One of them is, again, her ult, the other is a heal+shield that increases in effectiveness the longer the game goes on, and the last is a movement speed steroid, all three of which are AoE.

I mean, is that really a bad kit? It almost reminds me of Orianna, a mid laner. Orianna has her Q, which is an AoE skill shot damaging move, and her W is an AoE movement speed/slow that also does damage, and her E is a shield, and her ult is a stun and damaging move. There are only two differences: Sona has a heal while Orianna does not, and Orianna has one more damaging spell (and, bonus: Orianna has a skill shot). Why not play Orianna support, then? Or compared to Nami, aka Sona 2.0. The Q is a skill shot damaging stun, the W is a damaging heal, the E is a buff and applies a slow, and the ult is a knockup/slow. Why not play Nami instead of Sona? Is Sona's Q really more oppressive in lane than Nami's equally auto-targeted W that heals an ally and damages up to two enemies?

"But Sona is faceroll easy, no skill champ."

Yes, but so is Katarina, yet which one of the two is getting more bans in games? Certainly not Sona, who would waste a ban on a squishy support when you can ban the squishy cleanup champ and forget that CC is a thing that exists for reasons such as Katarina?

"BUT YOU SAID SONA IS BS, SO SHE MUST BE BROKEN!"

Of course Sona is BS. At least, she is BS when I play her full AP, thus making her a very, if not the most, useful asset to her entire team. The Q damage is on par with a mage mid laner, the heals and shields are bigger and better and the movement speed is faster. Every core feature about Sona is enhanced, just like any other champion that scales well with AP or AD. Does it make her more viable to teams with her increased damage, increased heals+shields, and increased movement speed? I would say, yes. Yes it does. Utility is an amazing asset to any team, whether they want to admit it or not. And it's BS for the enemy team because they don't have nearly as mush utility and they realize what a disadvantage they're at because of it. Then they have to focus the support before anyone else so they can win the teamfight..and they might just die trying because Sona is hiding behind her team while buffing them with her soft smile and silent evil laugh.

So please, tell me again that I'm wrong. Tell me how Sona is statistically unplayable and that defines her entire being. Tell me how even though she's a one hit kill, she is somehow either completely useless or completely unkillable. Tell me how her very presence in the game is beyond toxic. Or just admit that you don't know how to play Sona or against her, even though she's such a faceroll champion and literally anyone can play her.

Thank you for reading. Have a metaphorical cookie. <3

69 Comments

Wickedfates4 votes

Sona i <3 cookies

Sonasaurous4 votes

item 2010item 2010item 2010

I lied, they're actually biscuits D:

dEAdbUs3 votes

Full AP Sona needs hp to be succesfull or she will be instakilled by Bliz/Thresh/Leona/Annie.

Sonasaurous3 votes

item 2049item 2045, plus with 40% cdr, spamming the W for heals.

The Blitz/Thresh/Leona/Annie scenario also depends on whether or not they landed their pull/grab/stun. If they did, you deserve to die, because Sona should have two ways to avoid them: E and summoner 4

Marthian3 votes

150-400 HP is nothing if you don't have any defense to back it up.

Sonasaurous2 votes

I choose to sacrifice my own defensive stats to be a better asset to my team. A tanky Sona does not have OP heals and shields, but rather just okay heals and shields.

However, when against a Blitz/Thresh/Leona/Annie/whomever, it is a matter of positioning for Sona. Is she in a place where she can get caught? Then yes, she will be exploded on the spot. Tis what happens when you're squishy, but it can also be easily avoided with the utility Sona already has. High risk, high reward gameplay.

1000angrybees2 votes

Exactly the way I choose to think about it. Sona is a lot more rewarding on the AP support path.

junglerboy161 votes

finish up with a banner of command (AP, CDR, and MR) or Mikael's, and then a FH for even more CDR, mana, and a ton of durability and you're all set. Sona seems to do a lot better with a spam oriented build, rather than an AP heavy build. More lichbane procs are better than harder lichbane procs imo.

Sonasaurous2 votes

With my masteries, after I get item 3504 I only need one more item to get to 40% cdr, and usually my item of choice is item 3165 unless I have a really good reason to get something else, like item 3050.

My typical full AP Sona build looks like item 2049item 3504item 3165item 3285, selling my support gold item for item 3089, and either item 3117 or item 3009. Well, typical/idealized, as I rarely get to full build with Sona. Games end too fast.

chipndip11 votes

That's about the same as my build. I was thinking about starting to replace my item 3303 with item 3116 in the late game, mainly because it adds 100 ap while adding slows to her q, which comes back up REALLY DAMN FAST. That's a lot more slows than a gold item is gonna get me.

DJ Di01 votes

{quoted}

That's about the same as my build. I was thinking about starting to replace my item 3303 with item 3116 in the late game, mainly because it adds 100 ap while adding slows to her q, which comes back up REALLY DAMN FAST. That's a lot more slows than a gold item is gonna get me.

I like Rylais but I wish her Q bolts were coded as single target (atm they don't apply a full slow and I just can't bring myself to ever buy it because of that; it'd be perfect for her otherwise. )

Apollocliptic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw19jmHF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-19T16:38:03.267+0000)

item 2049item 2045, plus with 40% cdr, spamming the W for heals.

The Blitz/Thresh/Leona/Annie scenario also depends on whether or not they landed their pull/grab/stun. If they did, you deserve to die, because Sona should have two ways to avoid them: E and summoner 4

Neither of those will avoid Annie's stun (point and click spell :/ )

Sonasaurous1 votes

They certainly will help getting out of range before Annie can cast her stun. It's a matter of whether or not you predict Annie's movements correctly in that case. I'm not saying Sona is invincible, I'm just saying that those are her options for avoiding certain death.

Apollocliptic1 votes

Yeah, but while I totally agree against blitz, thresh and leona (though if it was as simple as "if you get caught you deserve to die" it'd be like skilled hooks don't exist) but my main point is that nothing will save you from Annie's Flash R :D

.... Unless you land that epic Ulti as though you truly did see the future o_o

Sonasaurous1 votes

Skilled hooks and skilled dodging are one in the same, imo. One player will show, in that moment, more skill than the other and be rewarded for it (with either their life or a kill).

I did that once...what happened was that I stunned Annie, and she stunned me...at the same time. Though honestly, I haven't really been seeing a lot of Annies lately (did I miss a nerf or something? I don't think her range nerf went live yet...), but when I do, they aren't playing Annie properly with the flash + Tibbers combo. So, for now, luck on my part until I see Annie running around again and I can practice more with her.

Erockandroll3 votes

I find myself getting a lot of kills all because I combined Mobi boots with Ardent censor, I literally have the MS to pick off the Stragglers. and yet everyone just complains about it.

Hatless Casual3 votes

Sona +item 3158 +item 3285 +item 3110+item 3040 +item 3065 +item 2049 = total BS and my team loves/hates me for it. Thought ealry game you want item 3098

Sonasaurous1 votes

Yes, yes, and yes. The BS builds are BS because they're effective, though I personally rarely buy defensive items on Sona unless the situation calls for it. I always start with my gold item, upgrade it once, and then sell it when I have enough gold to buy my final item to complete my build.

Apollocliptic1 votes

you realise that is an "inefficient" build though right? Inefficient, not necessarily bad, because you have between 5-10% wasted CDR. If you are going 9:0:21 masteries, drop iodian boots and you still have 40%, just pick up swiftness for OP placement or defensive boots. If you're not going 21+ Utility, do it anyway, 35% CDR and you can build some boots that'll be far more powerful in other aspects

Hatless Casual2 votes

Fair enough, there are always better mousetraps out there to be found. Just something I thought up on the fly more than anything. Realized I never put a item 3100 in the build about an hour after posting it.

redniwediS2 votes

Alright, first things first. Never call for downvotes in a post, it makes you look like an enormous tool.

Secondly I agree with most of what you're saying. The problem I have with Sona is that her kit does not really allow her to pick up the slack if her ADC is falling behind, or is simply unskilled. As someone who enjoys playing full support Sona (no AP what so ever) this gets to be a problem. Mage Sona is a different monster, of course, however I feel that if you don't build enough AP to have burst on her you have to have a good lane partner, otherwise there is very little you can do.

The PBE changes make me very happy for full support Sona, however I have no clue how it's going to effect AP support and mage Sona...

Sonasaurous1 votes

I iz r totes a tool. Ty.

Her kit is not designed for her to pick up the slack if the ADC falls behind because that's not the role she's meant to play. Whenever my ADC falls behind, I try to keep them alive until mid game and then I follow whomever needs me most or has carry potential.

The PBE changes shouldn't affect my playstyle for Sona too much, especially the mastery changes for the utility branch, which I have 21 points in anyway. The changes to Ardent Censor are what mostly concern me, but I think it will act like a Q buff on top of her Ws, so it should be fine.

redniwediS3 votes

Her kit is not designed for her to pick up the slack if the ADC falls behind because that's not the role she's meant to play. Whenever my ADC falls behind, I try to keep them alive until mid game and then I follow whomever needs me most or has carry potential.

I completely agree, however compared to other supports who can assist at masking their ADC's weaknesses this makes Sona feel weak in many situations. She is not weak, but not everyone can make that distinction.

DJ Di02 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw19jmHF,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-19T16:25:51.993+0000)

Hello, I'm just a forum hopper who usually jumps on the Sona threads and argues with the Sona Mains who whine and complain that Sona sucks. I'm here to talk about how Sona is BS and is fine as she is. Let the downvotes pour in.

Warning: Prepare for a wall of text. Judge me as you will, it will not change my ability to confidently play Sona in every game and** various roles**.

utility** mage** support, which is a role I like to play across various video games, and 3) she is a very easy and friendly champion to pick up and learn, especially when first starting out in League, and is even more fun to master. I'm not saying I'm a master Sona player, I'm just saying that I'm comfortable enough with her to the point that I don't even worry about "counters" and I **happily play her top or mid **whenever my team is cooperative enough, and I usually fare pretty well.

The other "Sona Mains" will happily shove numbers and win-rates/pick-rates down your throat to prove that, statistically speaking, Sona is in a terrible place compared to every other champion in the game. That crap means literally nothing to me.

For those of you who have this** misconception that Sona is an AP Mid Support Carry champion, stop. Just no. Sona was never an AP Mid Support Carry champion**, like AnnieMorganaVelkoz, and should not be played as such.

You say you play her Mid and Top, and that she's a 'Utility Mage', but tell people that she's not an AP Carry-esque champion?

So how then, do you avoid the Q damage? Well, a good Morgana Shield can do the trick (and it blocks the stun on the ult, in case you never knew that), as can Sivir's spell shield, and Lulu, Janna and Lux's shield can negate the damage. Thresh also has a shield. Go figure, shields op.

Morgana and Sivir (less so ) should never use their shields for just one Q, because of the cd they have.

Honestly, I take W at level 2, then proceed not to use it (except, of course, when the ADC is being focused) until after I put a second point into it after level 6. The E is more useful than the W at early levels, and I still take that at level 4. Poke Sona is OP. Besides, the heal is more intended for mid/late game during teamfights, and by then the heal and shield are complete OP BS.

It used to be when the %missing health ratio was still 1:1; now you have to build straight AP just so it's decent.

My team doesn't die so long as I am alive. It's hilarious. W + Passive = reduced damage from enemy. Again, never a bad thing.

20% reduced damage isn't much tbh.

You certainly can't say anything positive about her deadass E. That totally useless MS steroid. Totally useless, especially when I use it to chase down enemies or run away. Especially when running away. You shall not catch me, I shall not die, my team shall proceed to win because I'm buffing them to hell and back. Trollololol. (Which is completely offset by her long cd on E and the fact that if you do catch her, she's dead. Slows OP.) Seriously, whoever thinks movement speed is terrible needs to gtfo. The only thing I can really say about E is that I wish the passive increased movement speed to nearby minions was still a thing. But that makes Sona an asset to pushing lanes, and that would be too OP. I guess. (rito pls). E + Passive = slow on enemy. How is this a bad thing and why do I not see other Sonas using this more often? OH RIGHT, refer to the "Sona is not an AP Mid Support Carry" section.

E isn't used as much simply because of the coodlown. You could fluidly swap between powerchords pre-rework because her cooldowns were in sync. Now, instead of 7/7/7 it's 8/10/12. And yes, she really should be given the ability to speed up minions again (without extending the aura like she does with champions though, of course.)

Then there's the ult. The stun. The damage. The raging enemy team when they're dumb enough to clump together when I'm Eing in on them with my team. Here's a suggestion: item 3140 or summoner 4. Or if you have a knockback ability...but you didn't hear that from me...

Let's briefly review thus far: Sona has two damage abilities and three utility abilities. One of her damage abilities is her ult, so she's clearly not spamming that, while the other is her cleanup Q. (I call it cleanup Q because that's how Sona double kills are obtained. Lol, once it's a teamfight, I have no regrets. Trollololol). Then she has three utility abilities. One of them is, again, her ult, the other is a heal+shield that increases in effectiveness the longer the game goes on, and the last is a movement speed steroid, all three of which are AoE.

I mean, is that really a bad kit? It almost reminds me of Orianna, a mid laner. Orianna has her Q, which is an AoE skill shot damaging move, and her W is an AoE movement speed/slow that also does damage, and her E is a shield, and her ult is a stun and damaging move. There are only two differences: Sona has a heal while Orianna does not, and Orianna has one more damaging spell (and, bonus: Orianna has a skill shot). Why not play Orianna support, then? Or compared to Nami, aka Sona 2.0. The Q is a skill shot damaging stun, the W is a damaging heal, the E is a buff and applies a slow, and the ult is a knockup/slow. Why not play Nami instead of Sona? Is Sona's Q really more oppressive in lane than Nami's equally auto-targeted W that heals an ally and damages up to two enemies?

Nami is stronger than Sona, but takes a while to get used to unlike her (landing Q is pretty hard if you don't use Tidecaller's Blessing beforehand)

She isn't the weakest like some make her out to be, but she's been nerfed over and over for no reason whatsoever (she's had the same winrate and a slowly decreasing playrate since her rework) while other champions hadn't been touched Thresh Leona Blitzcrank [Blitz got nerfed, and Leona is /finally/ getting a slap on the wrist nerf] and had much higher winrates and playrates than her, and are used consistently in the LCS.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I love it when people pick out little quotes.

You say you play her Mid and Top, and that she's a 'Utility Mage', but tell people that she's not an AP Carry-esque champion?

She is not an AP carry even when you play her top or mid. Never once did I say that. Typically when you send Sona in a solo lane, it is to bully and harass, not singlehandedly carry your team to victory. It is a tactic, so to speak. You know, making sure a potential carry on the enemy team falls behind in CS, especially if they have a strong mid game. Very situational and dependent on your ability to play Sona...and requires lots of teamwork. Very fun, though, highly recommend.

Morgana and Sivir (less so ) should never use their shields for just one Q, because of the cd they have.

I was merely pointing out that they can be used effectively to avoid the damage.

It used to be when the %missing health ratio was still 1:1; now you have to build straight AP just so it's decent.

I should've clarified earlier that I build Sona as a pure AP support. Even with the W nerfs, I still find her heal and shield to be beyond decent.

20% reduced damage isn't much tbh.

Isn't much, but it's still something.

E isn't used as much simply because of the coodlown. You could fluidly swap between powerchords pre-rework because her cooldowns were in sync. Now, instead of 7/7/7 it's 8/10/12. And yes, she really should be given the ability to speed up minions again (without extending the aura like she does with champions though, of course.)

However, the E movement speed boost does scale with AP, so the amount of speed she gets, imo, is justified by the cd. Of course, it only seems worth it to be because I utilize it's AP scaling.

And I have nothing to add for the last point other than a head nod in agreement.

chipndip13 votes
  1. In my honest opinion...Sona should never be used as anything but support EVER...FOREVER...AND EVER. She can't push for jack shit, so why bother? She also can't nuke for a kill. She can easily maim someone, but 100 -> 0 is impossible with only "eh" damage on her ult + her q. Support is the main thing she's good at, and there's no reason to put her somewhere else when you can just pick Ahri/Katarina/LB/A real top laner/etc.

  2. As a support, I would agree with the notion that full on ap is the best way to get value from her after rushing Ardent Censer for the buff from heals, the mana regen she desperately needs, and a lil bit of damage. My ratio for Sona so far is basically 4.5:1 on op.gg, featuring way more games than the op and a positive w/l ratio...although I'm an adc main and the amount of Jinx I played might make your jaw drop, seeing how this is my first season of ranked. >_>

Regardless, once you roll into Morello's + Ardent, you hit a really comfy power spike. Your heals boost damage output, your q is damage output, and your e gets you places to damage output, while your ult holds people still while you damage output. Your regen at this point should be pretty solid as well. Very comfortable time if things don't go too awry in laning, and if they do, Sona + some smart teammates can pick it back up if you don't fall too behind before you finish those two items.

Afterwards, I like to get a Death Cap to top it off, then finish Frost Queen's and Ruby SS, but Morello's and Ardent come first every time. Tried other stuff in an attempt to be a forward thinking support...and I got snuffed. Gonna stick to straight ap. -_-

  1. E and W should be used more, period. I started using it more in fights to catch runners, and it actually helps clean up people we'd otherwise never catch, and W can save someone that'd otherwise die. Reducing 300 by 20% is literally cutting off 60 damage per hit while the debuff lasts, all while healing your ally and putting on a temporary shield that doubles what you healed. For all intents and purposes, 20% off your damage while I'm putting a shield on my allies is actually pretty good, but like before, this comes full circle when you finish Ardent + Morello's. You'll even have 30% cdr, so you can just spam it out for free since your spells are around 6-9 second cool downs. Only thing is that 20% damage off on only ONE enemy isn't as strong as the op makes it sound, because there's five of those jerks...>_>

  2. Thresh needs to be nerfed. Leona too. Blitz already has been.

  3. I think Nami is more rewarding when it comes to her bubble and her ult, but in generally mashing it out with the enemy in a standard team fight...I'd give it to Sona. Nami's bubble is just hard as poo to land (easier in a team fight, though), and the cool down isn't so friendly...even with cdr stacking. Sona, however, can constantly throw heals, shields, damage, buffs, and debuffs over and over again, especially with the core from before. I like them both, and I bought Nami for instances I couldn't use Sona to support, but I like Sona a bit more. Nami's value decreases REALLY hard in comparison to Sona if she doesn't do work on that bubble.

I will say Nami's laning phase is a bit more comfy than Sona's due to that heal. You can poke with it, get hit, and easily win the trade because low level pokes tend to match the damage of one EnF. I just like Sona for rolling tanks over people through team fights.

Lastly) The op is right when he says "Sona doesn't carry games". No support should really be carrying a game, save Annie or Vel'koz or other kill lane "support" options. She isn't a huge play maker like Leona/Thresh/Blitz, either. She's there for utility and some back-up, and if Nami's in a good spot doing just that, I don't see why Sona wouldn't be. Then again, you aren't the guy saying that, but I see it on the forums a lot. It's annoying.

DJ Di01 votes

{quoted}

1.)She's /kind/ of similar to Ezreal in the fact that her waveclear isn't the best (though Luden's Echo helps out so much). The reason I believe she can be taken into a solo lane is because she has good long range poke and not having to get sighstone and just rush AP can really give her huge powerspikes earlier.

I call her an 'Utility Assassin' since AP Sona usually kills you in one rotation, but also provides speed boosts, cc, and heals.

2.) My kda on her in ranked is kind of shit since I haven't used her at all this season. I usually opt for Janna instead (which is funny because I have a 4.6 kda with Janna haha)

3.) I go Lich Bane+Mejais myself, with cdr from runes and masteries. If you snowball you /snowball/, but on the downside you'll have a hard time if your team gets behind.

Example game http://gyazo.com/782f18867f7c88a26407a0616c65de0f

Afterwards, I like to get a Death Cap to top it off, then finish Frost Queen's and Ruby SS, but Morello's and Ardent come first every time. Tried other stuff in an attempt to be a forward thinking support...and I got snuffed. Gonna stick to straight ap. -_-

I'd advise against finishing the Spellthief line; after the nerfs it's just not all that worth it money-wise. As for Morello and Ardent Censer, you can just use runes and masteries for cooldown reduction, and conserve your mana or just get a tear.

  1. Thresh needs to be nerfed. Leona too. Blitz already has been.

Yup

5) I think Nami is more rewarding when it comes to her bubble and her ult, but in generally mashing it out with the enemy in a standard team fight...I'd give it to Sona. Nami's bubble is just hard as poo to land (easier in a team fight, though), and the cool down isn't so friendly...even with cdr stacking. Sona, however, can constantly throw heals, shields, damage, buffs, and debuffs over and over again, especially with the core from before. I like them both, and I bought Nami for instances I couldn't use Sona to support, but I like Sona a bit more. Nami's value decreases REALLY hard in comparison to Sona if she doesn't do work on that bubble.

Nami's in a good spot; rewarding when used right but not 'opressive'. She shouldn't get buffs nor nerfs.

Lastly) The op is right when he says "Sona doesn't carry games". No support should really be carrying a game, save Annie or Vel'koz or other kill lane "support" options. She isn't a huge play maker like Leona/Thresh/Blitz, either. She's there for utility and some back-up, and if Nami's in a good spot doing just that, I don't see why Sona wouldn't be. Then again, you aren't the guy saying that, but I see it on the forums a lot. It's annoying.

No support 'carries' in the same way that Marksmen do (killing and taking towers). But as long as I'm able to keep my damage dealers alive and provide vision to the team, I call that carrying.

[{quoted}](name=Hatless Casual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw19jmHF,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-05-19T21:52:00.540+0000)

Sona +item 3158 +item 3285 +item 3110+item 3040 +item 3065 +item 2049 = total BS and my team loves/hates me for it. Thought ealry game you want item 3098

Ehhhhh, a bit heavy on the cdr, bud. You can swap Lucidity for Swifties or Mobis, at the very least.

Icestar11861 votes

Sona is an AP carry the way Nami and Janna are AP carries.

DJ Di01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw19jmHF,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-20T15:42:20.463+0000)

Because your one game with Sona overrides my two years of experience playing her support :'D

Hate to be 'that guy' but idk if two years means much if you're still at that elo (I've only played for one year and am already almost plat)

Meanwhile, the W is way too expensive and ineffective to be spamming at early levels. Of course you ran out of mana quickly. You would've been a better help to your ADC by poking more and healing sparingly.

But again, what do I know? :'D

That is true but a way to remedy that is to take a second point instead of taking E level 4.

{quoted}

Sona is an AP carry the way Nami and Janna are AP carries.

I see what you're getting at; but Mid Sona is much more 'utility-assassin' based than something like Mid Janna. I say assassin in which you try to kill enemies in quick rotations, but afterwards use your remaining spells for utility to your team.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I imagine this account is your smurf, then? I haven't pushed for ranked play. Rank means nothing to me when I'm just playing for fun. Does it particularly matter, then, what my rank or elo is? I'm not comparing myself to higher elos, nor am I saying I belong in a higher elo than I am (though I will complain that my normal mmr dropped significantly after finishing my provsionals. Riot, why.), so I don't see how that is particularly relevant. Yet I do have experience playing this one particular champion for an extended period of time...or does none of that matter because I'm not very highly ranked?

I have tried taking a second point in W at 4 and saving E for 5, and find it just as inefficient. The mana cost is still too high with no mana regen and the heal is only slightly better. I also noticed that it was normally around lvl 4 that my lane would get ganked so I'd rather have the MS for an escape.

DJ Di01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw19jmHF,comment-id=0008000200000000,timestamp=2015-05-20T17:00:37.446+0000)

I have tried taking a second point in W at 4 and saving E for 5, and find it just as inefficient. The mana cost is still too high with no mana regen and the heal is only slightly better. I also noticed that it was normally around lvl 4 that my lane would get ganked so I'd rather have the MS for an escape.

That's understandable. I just like having an extra point as the heal finally become decent at rank 2 in regards to it's mana cost. I really don't like early game E since most of it's scaling is in AP, which Sona doesn't have a lot of early on.

1000angrybees2 votes

As a player that plays a shitload of sona, I honestly didnt even need to read this (I did read some of it though, I'm not that arrogant lol). The only sona players who complain about her not being good enough are the bad ones. You can take that girl right into mid lane and stomp half the champs in it no problem.

Vincent Lucius2 votes

My favorite game as Sona was full mana regen. Had 40% CDR and I went back to full mana before my cooldowns were over. My team left every team fight only to be healed to high heavens before we got to the tower we're trying to push.

She's not weak. And a good one is a pain in the ass for a Thresh. And then if you meet one that stays true to her character the only trash talk you'll get is "Twang twang twang" in all chat. All hail the Silent Wraith of bot lane.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I find that all I really need for Sona is two mana regen items, and mana is never a problem for me throughout the rest of the game. Since she's so mana hungry and spam-spelly, I rush those mana regen items first every time, unless there is an absolute outstanding reason why I shouldn't.

I honestly play against Thresh the most out of Sona's "counters", and I really can't see how he counters her. Sure, he has a hook with a stun. But if I simply side step it, then he has no engage, and I can chunk out his HP pretty easily, especially at the early levels. I have more problems with Blitz than Thresh and Leona combined, but since his nerf I haven't been seeing him as much.

Vincent Lucius1 votes

I know you don't really need all that regen, but it's just too fun to have mana regeneration that makes it look like I've got a Garen passive for a magic user.

And yeah. A bad Sona is food for my ADC if I'm Thresh. A good one hits me when I try to poke and knows how to stop both me and the ADC from being too relevant. As for Blitz... give him time. People will get over the changes and realize you can do fine with him. His hooks are scarier than Thresh's honestly.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I love being able to spam my spells and never have to worry about being oom throughout the entire rest of the game. It also works with how I build, since I get item 3504 and item 3165, which when paired with my masteries gives me an even 40% cdr. Plus I love the passives of those items. <3 I'm biased, judge me.

Blitz scares me to death. I don't care about Thresh or Leona unless they prove themselves to be cringe worthy, but every time I see a Blitz, I play safe until I see how he plays. If he can't land a grab for his life, I go all in. If he can...well, I already found out and am crying.

Vincent Lucius1 votes

It only takes one. And then when he hits six, well... it doesn't matter if your flash is up.

And I don't think you understand. There is no "two regen items". Everything. If you aren't scrolling over your mana bar and seeing a little "11.4", then you are missing out. "Dying" becomes a foreign term for your teammates and you can spam your heal without worry. Your enemies shall cry just a single tear as they hear your champion gently strumming. And while you may not push on your own, whoever you tag along with... they shall be terror incarnate.

Or... um... Yeah. O_O try full regen Sona in normals. It's pretty fun.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Or rather what I mean is that I've noticed that, with my play style, I only need my two usual mana regen items to no longer have mana related problems. When I do decide to build a item 3100 I pair it with item 3003 so I get extra AP and mana and mana regen.

Hmm...full mana regen Sona...what would that look like? item 3504item 3165item 3040item 3174 item 3222 ? I don't know if that would be the most effective build for her, considering the other stats provided for the mana regen items.

Vincent Lucius1 votes

looks about right. But like I said, the point isn't efficiency. It's just one of those stupid builds that's ridiculously fun builds that makes you laugh. Possibly a lot. Wouldn't take it into ranked, but definitely worth a try for normals.

Best Darius KR2 votes

I'm here to talk about how Sona is BS and is fine as she is.

Now sure i understand how that's compatible but hey who am i to complain

Sonasaurous2 votes

Most of the Sona threads on this forum argue that Sona is completely unplayable and needs a complete rework or a revert on her rework to be functional again. I've argued with those "Sona Mains" multiple times throughout their threads that that is not true.

Also, thanks for clearly reading the post, where I explain that one statement you chose to read.

junglerboy161 votes

Played my first game of Sona the other day (got stuck as support and they said they didn't want a tank support, so I just Yolo picked Sona) in a normals match, and even though my ADC fed horribly (0 and 7 and diving their ADC 1v3), I was still able to support really hard and got 23 assists, a handful of kills, and so many beautifully easy to hit ults that we won. Sona is an easy champion that is weak when playing against a really competent team.

She is also extremely squishy, has pathetic early game, and is far too strong late game (Lich bane+Passive+200 AP and I was half-living their ADC with only Q and an AA). I'd prefer it if they took away some of her late game scaling and gave her back at least a semblance of early game presence.

Sonasaurous2 votes

Take your Q first at base, use it twice, then head to lane. Once the enemy adc is in lane, hit your Q, and land your AA, and then laugh as you shred that ADCs health at least halfway (depends on masteries/runes) and make them waste their health pots. Sona is recognized as having a very strong early game poke, and it is one of her core strengths. The squishiness is, imo, a small price to pay for everything that she brings to the table.

Honestly, I do just as well with Sona with or without the Lich Bane. I often opt not to get it because I do a lot of damage anyway with the AP build, and I'd rather get item 3165 for the mana regen, cdr, and passive.

junglerboy162 votes

her early game poke isn't that great though, her base damage is really quite low and her AP at early levels isn't high enough to compensate. I did the whole charge Q+Passive trick (because like any sensible person I looked up how to play her on the wiki during the load screen), and while it chunked their ADC for a fair amount (nearly 200 damage) after that, I was busy trying to keep my ADC from feeding over and over again and couldn't waste mana on poke when I had to heal them constantly.

Sonasaurous2 votes

Because your one game with Sona overrides my two years of experience playing her support :'D

If you want to increase her numbers, then you have to take the 9/0/21 support mastery path and give her mage runes...which is what I do for her and have no regrets. Though on my other account where I have no runes and only limited masteries (because not lvl 30), Sona still packs a punch. I assure you, she does a lot of burst damage with her Q alone, passive unnecessary. To really get the poke advantage, take a second point in Q at level 3 instead of taking your E.

Meanwhile, the W is way too expensive and ineffective to be spamming at early levels. Of course you ran out of mana quickly. You would've been a better help to your ADC by poking more and healing sparingly.

But again, what do I know? :'D

junglerboy161 votes

Gotta love that passive aggressive attitude you got there, it's really pretty special :'D

Like I said, I'm pretty sure I would have had a better match if my ADC weren't intent on feeding their ADC (and she was a sivir going into a Caitlyn) and if I had been able to max Q first but I had to max her pathetic little heal instead (and you cannot argue that it is way overpriced for the amount it heals, regardless of spammability) to try and keep my utterly clueless ADC from feeding more than 5 times.

Sonasaurous1 votes

I'm passive aggressive when people doubt my Sona even though this whole thread has argued against your first statement of "her poke is weak," which you base off a whooping total of one game with her. :'D

Did you not read my original post with my rant on W? Her heal is late-game. Riot did that on purpose because Sona heals were too ridiculous early game and her ADC never died ever. Of course, playing one game of Sona, you may not have known that off-hand even if reading the skill description and numbers did not convince you not to take it. In order to make the W worth maxing first, you need to rush your mana regen items first so maxing it will be justified by your spamming, but most often what will happen when you do that (as you may have learned the hard way) is that the heals will be slightly better, but cost more mana that you don't have, leaving you very useless and defenseless while in lane before you even have the chance to buy items.

Honestly, a typical laning phase lasts until...what? Level 9 or so? And if you play like me, then you don't go back to buy things until you're level 5 or 6, at which point, unless you got a double kill bot lane, you probably have enough gold (on average) for the sightstone and one or two more items (which I go for two item 1004 for some mana regen, but is still not enough to sustain W spamming). Which is great, but prior to that, if you're in lane and you take 1 point in Q, 3 points in W, and 1 point in E while spamming your W...what exactly were you accomplishing in lane while dangerously oom and every chance you got you depleted the last of your mana to use W, which would just start being somewhat effective without AP at rank 3? At that point, it wouldn't matter if you had stayed in lane to lvl 6 with 3 points in W because you wouldn't have any mana to use your ult. Meanwhile, if you had taken 3 points in Q, 1 point in W, and 1 point in E, chances are you would've at least pushed the enemy ADC and support out of lane with your crazy damage (Q mana costs becoming problematic at the third rank), saving your W for crucial moments that typically mean denying the enemy a kill on your ADC with the heal and shield...which is what the W is kind of meant for at early stages. Seriously, lvl 5 Sona is dangerous with 3 points in Q, even without AP items yet. Heck, lvl 3 Sona with two points in Q is plain unfair to the enemy.

Sona isn't loved/hated by the community for her heals, its for her BS Q damage that is consistently strong (until she falls off late-game, but you should never aim to get to late game with any squishy champion).

Now, if your ADC was a lost cause, then you do what's best for the team and follow whoever is going to carry you guys to victory. If the jungler wasn't willing to help you, then accept bot as a lost lane and move on. Which it sounds like you did anyway. Typically if bot lane is losing, I urge the ADC to roam with me mid so we can turn at least one lane into our favor.

Zorae421 votes

I have the opposite experience. I usually have a strong early game (1-6), provided they don't have an aggressive Thresh/Leona/Blitz/Annie...

But then I fall off really hard. I do start getting some damage again once I get Lichbane+AP, but it takes ages to get to those when playing sup. And by the time I do, Everyone else is at full build and it's difficult to get the dmg off/they have enough HP/MR to make it negligible.

I wish they'd shift some of the AP scaling from her power chord to it's base dmg, so she's not so irrelevant until she can get the items she needs.

junglerboy161 votes

yeah, I guess it could have just been that my ADC was terrible that game, because once we got to team fighting, I went from 1-3-0 (ADC was dead when I got the kill) to 4-7-23 (so many dance parties!).

FantasySniper1 votes

AP? Pfff. All you need is a crap ton of CDR and watch them try and fail to "punish" a Sona who always has her abilities up.

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