Unless your ping is above 140-150 stop complaining....

Fatalitý·Aug 27, 2015·47 votes·7,339 views

All these "SCREW THE NEW SERVER CHANGES RIOT SCREWED THE WEST COAST" are getting annoying. I see all these posts about people getting 80 ping, 90 ping, 100 ping, THEY ARE ALL PLAYABLE. I played on 80-90 ping before the server moved and I was COMPLETELY FINE. However, for the player base in Hawaii or Alaska, I can actually understand why they are mad, they have every right to be. What I hear from them now is 160-200 ping which is pretty bad and I can understand how the server screwed them. But if you live on the west coast in NA and you have more than 250-300 ping. That is your internet not the server.

97 Comments

AgraajagAug 27, 201512 votes

It's just sad that this is the best solution riot could come up with. Just shuffle the problem around. I'm switching games.

yellowbricksAug 27, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It's just sad that this is the best solution riot could come up with. Just shuffle the problem around. I'm switching games.

True dat. This move even would benefit me but I can't support riot and their drones thinking ping is a zero sum game in the year of our Lord 2015.

ZenBudSAug 28, 20153 votes

They wont fix it, just shuffle it so less complain... less will complain, less will play the game too. add that to your statistics.

Gregor GysiAug 27, 20159 votes

Honestly, if your ping is above 120 (that's the ping I get when I access the NA server from Germany), then something is wrong. We have EUW and EUNE so why wouldn't you have two NA servers? Splitting the playerbase wasn't a problem in the past, so why would it be a problem now? I highly doubt that anyone with a ping above 100 wouldn't prefer 2 servers.

ElJanitorFrankAug 28, 20151 votes

I believe that the language barriers have something to do with it. Pretty much everybody in America and Canada can speak English, and many people in Mexico can.

Plus, there are a lot more people in Europe than the US and Canada, server strain could be one reason they have 2, not just location.

Gregor GysiAug 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I believe that the language barriers have something to do with it. Pretty much everybody in America and Canada can speak English, and many people in Mexico can.

Plus, there are a lot more people in Europe than the US and Canada, server strain could be one reason they have 2, not just location.

Well actually on both EUW and EUNE people speak english only (except for a small minority of 4man premades sigh).

However EUNE and EUW both have the servers pretty close to each other - I get an incredibly low ping on both. Same for Turkey. That means EUW and EUNE also only have one reason for their split existance. And seeing how Riot generally is willing to split a server (multiple times!) I fail to see why that wouldn't be possible with NA.

SwaidAug 27, 20158 votes

Ever since the server change, my roommate and I have been getting massive lag spikes periodically throughout matches; we've pretty much had to give up playing against people and Co-Op only does so much. We both feel we're done with this game until this gets fixed, which sucks because we were both excited for the Project line of skins, but we cannot possibly spend money on something we can't frickin' play.

BakedLotionAug 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ever since the server change, my roommate and I have been getting massive lag spikes periodically throughout matches; we've pretty much had to give up playing against people and Co-Op only does so much. We both feel we're done with this game until this gets fixed, which sucks because we were both excited for the Project line of skins, but we cannot possibly spend money on something we can't frickin' play.

if you're on the west coast, it's your problem. If you're somewhere farther out, then maybe, just maybe its their fault . Otherwise, fix your internet

Troll for TrumpAug 27, 20154 votes

West coast to East Coast: Wow you have, really high ping, probably should fix your interne--- East COast: No! I'm not bad! It's the shtty riot server lag, Im DCING 24/7 It's all riot West Coast: Ok then

EastCoast: Oh you have over 100 Ping, clearly must be your internet WestCoast: No, RIot moved serve- EastCoast: It's your internet, kid.

BakedLotionAug 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

West coast to East Coast: Wow you have, really high ping, probably should fix your interne--- East COast: No! I'm not bad! It's the shtty riot server lag, Im DCING 24/7 It's all riot West Coast: Ok then

EastCoast: Oh you have over 100 Ping, clearly must be your internet WestCoast: No, RIot moved serve- EastCoast: It's your internet, kid.

No one in the east coast ever said that it's riot's fault. Even if there is, it's a minority. Show me a single post where they specifically say they're in the east coast and blames it on riot (if it isn't due to their periodic lag).

And he said he had constant lag spikes. No one else is getting this problem but him lmfao. If he's getting lag spikes this often, and its over like 200 ping, it's his internet. Even then, If it was really because of the server move, i'm pretty sure the East Coast was FURTHER AWAY FROM THEIR OLD CALIFORNIA SERVERS THAN CALIFORNIA IS TO CHICAGO. And guess what, we didnt have lag spikes and blamed riot, unless it was the ddos madness and server lag.

People shouldn't even have the right to bitch about 75 ping when the east coast had nearly double that ping for YEARS

FluxBoundAug 28, 20153 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EqEEWJg4-lag-to-the-east-coast-right-now

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/6TUcEN3I-east-coast-lag-again

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/4yTOHhfT-east-coast-players

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/UNYPt8Gv-east-coast-server

There's more too. Do you want more?

BakedLotionAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EqEEWJg4-lag-to-the-east-coast-right-now

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/6TUcEN3I-east-coast-lag-again

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/4yTOHhfT-east-coast-players

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/UNYPt8Gv-east-coast-server

There's more too. Do you want more?

That's from the ddos attacks they had a few months ago smart one.

FluxBoundAug 28, 20152 votes

Some have different dates. Sounds like you want more links

Troll for TrumpAug 28, 20152 votes

Ok, genius, if no one in east coast thinks it is RIOT's fault for their "lag", then why are there so many east coast complaints to RIOT about lag? Think about it this way, if everyone acknowledged that the East Coast had lag because of their internet, and not Riot's servers, why would Riot even BOTHER trying to move their servers.

"People shouldn't even have the right to bitch about 75 ping when the east coast had nearly double that ping for YEARS" Ok, why did you have double the ping? Is it because you have bad internet? If not, then it's Riot's fault isn't it. It's their servers, right? Yeah you just contradicted yourself twice.

You claim the east coast doesn't blame riot for lag, then you blame riot for your high ping and not your internet. You complaing about west coast qqing, but you are bitching about West Coast.

BakedLotionAug 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ok, genius, if no one in east coast thinks it is RIOT's fault for their "lag", then why are there so many east coast complaints to RIOT about lag? Think about it this way, if everyone acknowledged that the East Coast had lag because of their internet, and not Riot's servers, why would Riot even BOTHER trying to move their servers.

"People shouldn't even have the right to bitch about 75 ping when the east coast had nearly double that ping for YEARS" Ok, why did you have double the ping? Is it because you have bad internet? If not, then it's Riot's fault isn't it. It's their servers, right? Yeah you just contradicted yourself twice.

You claim the east coast doesn't blame riot for lag, then you blame riot for your high ping and not your internet. You complaing about west coast qqing, but you are bitching about West Coast.

We had double the ping because of the server location, no one blamed it on riot unless their servers were going haywire, which happens once in a while but this gets fixed in less than a day. How are u so dumb that u dont know that if you're farther away from the servers, you have higher ping? If it's higher than what is normal, then it's your fault, unless Riot fucked up their servers like a few months ago from the ddos, but that's over now.

Like I said before, Cali -> Chicago is WAAAYYY closer than anywhere in the east coast ->cali. You're getting it better than the east coast had before. Why are you bitching? Is it cause u had an advantage that you no longer have? Stop being selfish. 3/4th of the continent has lower ping now than before, for such a small cost. You can't deal with 30-50ms more?

Troll for TrumpAug 28, 20152 votes

"We had double the ping because of the server location, no one blamed it on riot unless their servers were going haywire, which happens once in a while but this gets fixed in less than a day." Pretty much you are blaming Riot servers, because RIot put their old servers in Portland.

"How are u so dumb that u dont know that if you're farther away from the servers, you have higher ping? If it's higher than what is normal, then it's your fault,"

I was being SARCASTIC. Obviously you have high ping if you are so far away from the servers, but that would be Riot's fault. YOu are blaming the servers, the servers belong to RIot. YOu are blaming Riot's server locations for your lag.

"You're getting it better than the east coast had before. Why are you bitching? Is it cause u had an advantage that you no longer have? Stop being selfish. 3/4th of the continent has lower ping now than before, for such a small cost. You can't deal with 30-50ms more?"

I'm not the one bitching Mr. Rager, you are :) Not being selfish when there's people in the west with 250 ping

STill doesn't excuse you from being a hypocrite and an asshole.

Masked LunaticAug 27, 20152 votes

The lag spikes are just because they are trying to shorten the route information takes to the servers and back (tweaking the servers to be more efficient). Though i do agree that the lag is a pain in the behind esp if it spikes... not to mention that there was supposed to be a drop of 50 ping (based on the testing / my experience) and my ping of 170 or so hasn't changed. I don't really care that much but the occasions where sudden spikes in lag really screw me over.

Unfortunately you'd have to wait for a bit because as with most things riot waits for some time so that they can get decent results before altering something (they wouldn't want to have server crashes like in the first season of the game).

Spicy RiceAug 28, 20151 votes

I find it odd how much of a discrepancy there is with people ping. Ice seen seceral people comment8ng how the8r ping hasnt dropp, yet kine has dropped by 80

Spizzle9000Aug 27, 20157 votes

So, a good bit of West Coast players I've seen (definitely not all or the majority, but still some) have been whining about a ping of 80-90. I'm just like, "That's what everyone other than you guys had to deal with for 6 years. As you guys always told us when we complained about a bit of lag (and 80-90 is by no means a terrible ping), 'deal with it.'"

Baby GhoulAug 27, 201521 votes

My problem with some of the east coast players saying essentially, "Enjoy our problem now.", besides being immature, is that the servers never started in the east and moved to the west. You decided to start playing with pings over 100, and let me tell you people, a lot of of us are experiencing pings over 100. I would love to have 80 ping! My old one was 52. Many of us would not have started playing this game with that high of a ping, and it's why a lot of people are looking at other games in case Riot can't make this work. You guys are acting like a server move happened to you after you invested time, and it didn't. The way many people in Alaska, Hawaii, and the west coast are being cheated is different.

My friend, who is on the east coast, specifically didn't want to start playing with me because his ping was an issue. There's a reason Riot wanted the majority of us under 80, because after that point you can see a difference that becomes rather annoying. Here's the part where another east coaster jumps in and says, "But I played at X ping.". I always felt sorry that you had to play at that ping, and many people have been calling for DOTA 2 like servers. If you honestly think 120 ping is fine, then why did we need to move at all?

Spizzle9000Aug 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

My problem with some of the east coast players saying essentially, "Enjoy our problem now.", besides being immature, is that the servers never started in the east and moved to the west. You decided to start playing with pings over 100, and let me tell you people, a lot of of us are experiencing pings over 100. I would love to have 80 ping! My old one was 52. Many of us would not have started playing this game with that high of a ping, and it's why a lot of people are looking at other games in case Riot can't make this work. You guys are acting like a server move happened to you after you invested time, and it didn't. The way many people in Alaska, Hawaii, and the west coast are being cheated is different.

My friend, who is on the east coast, specifically didn't want to start playing with me because his ping was an issue. There's a reason Riot wanted the majority of us under 80, because after that point you can see a difference that becomes rather annoying. Here's the part where another east coaster jumps in and says, "But I played at X ping.". I always felt sorry that you had to play at that ping, and many people have been calling for you DOTA 2 like servers for years. If you honestly think 120 ping is fine, then why did we need to move at all?

I'm not saying that everyone is like that on the East OR West coast. Just the West Coast players who would always yell at the East for complaining about their ping are now having their revenge. It's only fair. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Also, I personally never decided to start playing with pings over 100. I have had a solid 80-ish for most of the time, but I still see some people complaining about that.

Now, one question, when did I say that 120 is good? I said 80-90 isn't bad. But, if the East had to deal with it, now it's the West's turn. You'll get a new server soon, I imagine, considering the amount of players there. Alaska and Hawaii definitely need their own, but I just find it very ironic that people are complaining about a ping of 80 while so many told us to shut up whenever we had ping problems. Now they may eat their words.

It's unfortunate that so many people have a bad ping now, but it's the East Coast's turn to have a decent ping for once.

Baby GhoulAug 27, 201510 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying that everyone is like that on the East OR West coast. Just the West Coast players who would always yell at the East for complaining about their ping are now having their revenge. It's only fair. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Also, I personally never decided to start playing with pings over 100. I have had a solid 80-ish for most of the time, but I still see some people complaining about that.

Now, one question, when did I say that 120 is good? I said 80-90 isn't bad. But, if the East had to deal with it, now it's the West's turn. You'll get a new server soon, I imagine, considering the amount of players there. Alaska and Hawaii definitely need their own, but I just find it very ironic that people are complaining about a ping of 80 while so many told us to shut up whenever we had ping problems. Now they may eat their words.

It's unfortunate that so many people have a bad ping now, but it's the East Coast's turn to have a decent ping for once.

It's not fair, it's petty is what it is. I have a hard time respecting anyone who acts like that.

I've been around for quite some time, and the worst you guys ever got for making threads most of the time was apathy towards your issue. Because one guy recently made a thread making fun of east coast players before the move, we're supposed to put up with this BS? I don't think so.

I'm not a west coaster, so don't shoot me! I just think the way a lot of east coast players are acting is extremely uncalled for. Again, if my ping was that high, I would not have started playing. Cannot stress that enough! I would love an 80 ping. Give me that, and I'll be happy. I always felt like there should be two different server locations.

The way a lot of people in Alaska, Hawaii, and the west coast are being handled right now is actually unfair because they didn't have a choice in the server move when they were already playing. The servers were not originally in an eastern state and moved to a western one. They invested time and money in this game with an acceptable ping, and now it's being moved and a lot of us are jumping over 100.

Troll for TrumpAug 27, 20155 votes

Ok, ok. West coast to East Coast: Wow you have, really high ping, probably should fix your interne--- East COast: No! I'm not bad! It's the shtty riot server lag, Im DCING 24/7 It's all riot West Coast: Ok then

EastCoast: Oh you have over 100 Ping, clearly must be your internet WestCoast: No, RIot moved serve- EastCoast: It's your internet, kid.

Genius.

KnalxzAug 28, 20152 votes

I've never seen such a calm response from anyone from the east coast. If anything this is flipped just not demonize. Most west coaster would swim in the tears of east coasters complaining about lag.

While you west coasters see this as a problem that needs to be fixed the east coasters look at it as if it were justice. They say you guys deserve to burn for what you've done. Their only remorse goes to the Alaskians an Hawiaans who've suffered the same plague which has only gotten worse for them. Riot basically told them to not even play their game anymore.

ZenBudSAug 28, 20152 votes

East coasters in your mirror are a lot more douchey then you make them appear.

ZenBudSAug 28, 20152 votes

i did feel bad for people on the east coast. Now it feels like they enjoy rubbing negativity in others faces I kind of wish for a natural disaster to blow em all away. Any luck finding a game with better ping on west coast similar. I am about done with riot. I feel like they stole from me or at least sold me merchandise under false pretenses.

ManwalrusAug 28, 20151 votes

You decided to start playing with pings over 100

You're saying, that everyone should move to the west just because of a video game we play? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response

Also the server didn't move to the "east" it moved to Chicago in the mid west, hence server centralization

Your whole second paragraph conflicts with the first one because you sort of defended the server move, Riot got what they wanted, the majority of players are under 80 ping, the people who aren't are a vocal minority. They evened the playing field, how is that bad?

many people called for DOTA2 like servers

Riot already said that isn't an option, stop bringing it up.

No one enjoyed really high ping, east coast players take up issue to comments like the one on the original server move announcement that said "70 ping is unplayable".

Baby GhoulAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're saying, that everyone should move to the west just because of a video game we play? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response

Also the server didn't move to the "east" it moved to Chicago in the mid west, hence server centralization

Your whole second paragraph conflicts with the first one because you sort of defended the server move, Riot got what they wanted, the majority of players are under 80 ping, the people who aren't are a vocal minority. They evened the playing field, how is that bad?

Riot already said that isn't an option, stop bringing it up.

No one enjoyed really high ping, east coast players take up issue to comments like the one on the original server move announcement that said "70 ping is unplayable".

You don't need to dignify it with a response, because it's not at all what I said. You missed the entire point of what I said.

I did not contradict myself once. I said they wanted, not that they achieved. Many people that aren't even on the west coast, Hawaii, or Alaska are experiencing ping over 80. Read carefully before you attack people. Almost everything you're talking about your post I addressed already in my post.

I would like to see the comment where Riot said it wasn't an option though. Could you please provide it? I would want to see their reasoning for that. I'm sure a lot of people here would.

ManwalrusAug 29, 20151 votes

Here you go, this is a quote from Riot Ahab in the server roadmap post

There are a number of issues with a server split - lowered populations (NA isn't the size of EU population-wise) increase queue times, and friends lists that had been built over the years would need to be chopped up as players picked one server or the other. For where we are currently; wrangling complications such as server population, social systems and geography - a single server solution makes the most sense.

As well as multiple more Rioter comments about that on the post: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/U0M1AVfO-na-server-roadmap-update-na-server-move-on-825

Just go to the Rioter rundown thingy.

CaelerAug 28, 20154 votes

it's one thing to always be on high ping but as for me I was used to 25-35 ping, now I'm getting ~95. In just several games since the server move I've had extremely frustrating experiences where the timings and combo's I'm used to don't happen the way as usual. Deaths where I die and normally I wouldn't have. It's an extremely frustrating experience disillusioning many west coast players. And the lack of compassion from the east coast players is ridiculous. You guys bitched about the same thing forever and couldn't be happier the problem was shifted to others and it's even worse for us since we had what used to be taken for granted taken from us. This experience can be likened to a kid who's dad died being compared to a kid who never had one. As the latter I wouldn't dare say to the former now you know what if feels like. Because it's not the same.

Source

ZenBudSAug 28, 20153 votes

AGREED. I said it was like barely dodging a concentration camp and laughing at the guy who had to take your place... but i like yours better.

ReshiKillimAug 27, 20155 votes

Well, I'm a Hawaii player with what's considered "Bad" internet (One step up from dial-up) on my island. My ping averages 120-130 currently. I'm not so sure about the other islands as they could have different connection qualities depending on where they live.

As for Alaska, that's farther from the servers than Hawaii is so it's understandable they'd be worse off.

AnihakuAug 27, 20155 votes

I love all the hypocritical remarks on this topic. I'm west coast and my ms changed about 10-15ms so far (hardly noticeable for me at all). I am lucky to not have been too affected by the server change. That being said..... Hawaii/Alaska/parts of Canada got really screwed. Riot please help them! They should be your focus right now.

For all the east coast hypo's.......just embrace your new ms because you do deserve it! It would also be nice if you stopped being toxic to the west. I have never had ms below 67 and probably never will, who cares I DONT the game is still playable. Help out Hawaii/Alaska/Canada so that they don't have to go through exactly what you went through when you were complaining for years.

Be the solution, not the problem! :P

FatalitýAug 27, 20152 votes

I'm not trying to be toxic to west coasters, I'm just saying I've seen posts on the boards where people complain about ping below 100 and I just really don't understand how anything below 100 ping can affect you at all!. I do agree with you though like I said in the post Hawaii, Alaska and (forgot to mention Canada :P) and Canada do need the most help right now connection/Ping wise.

Binxy PrimeAug 28, 20156 votes

I had 20 ping before the move I have 100 now, it effects me. The game feels sluggish and off and even if the game is mostly the same its a lot less satisfying to play when it isnt crisp.

Zenthon PrimeAug 28, 20154 votes

I get that YOU'RE not trying to insult West Coasters. But as a West Coaster, I'm damn tired of these threads. All they do, intentionally or not, is attract the anti-West-Coast circlejerk. I mean, without the toxic outburst from some East Coast players I wouldn't have cared half as much about the server move, because I was "blessed" with crappy internet relative to my area to begin with (54 ping in Central Cali, hardly the optimal sub-40) and an extra 15-25 ping is basically irrelevant for me personally. I don't know how bad it really is for the people getting 4x/5x worse ping, so I won't speak for them.

Oh, and this nonsense about a vocal minority of West Coasters complaining is hilarious. It's happening, but those posts get downvoted into oblivion anyway no matter how correct or incorrect they actually are because they're going agaisnt debateably the largest circlejerk in LoL's recent history (only debateable because lel sandbox mode). Mind you, not all circlejerks are bad and this one was by NO MEANS unfounded, but that is the reality of the situation. If I took stupid opinions that I could find occasionally if I looked hard enough into account, I could counter your argument with the old East Coast posts about the horrors of 80-100 ping (which is, as we both know, kinda dumb)

That aside, the main reason I'm pissed is because this was entirely avoidable. As proven by every other major MOBA out there, along with several other games in various genres, two servers is a standard in this day and age. I hate the Dota 2 card as much as most around here, but Riot not choosing Dota's system when they have 5x the playerbase and already established infastructure is nearly (not quite, but close) as idiotic as the sandbox mode logic.

DeynaTaggerungAug 28, 20151 votes

I've noticed (partially through my own experience backed up by what people complain about) that around 80-90 ping people start noticing packet loss along with the transfer time. There's more stutters in gameplay. So I think there's more than one factor going on here

ZenBudSAug 28, 20153 votes

80 and lower is playable. anything higher and you notice a big difference in skillshot reliant champions. 100 ping is playable for some champions but i still do not want to play at that ping.

MajorMunchiesAug 27, 20154 votes

yea, I live in hawaii and the ping is horrible, i'm seriously considering switching to another MOBA like dota because of the ping alone

TheLastShadow45Aug 27, 20153 votes

The main reason all the people are complaining is because a lot of them say their ping double. I went from 50ish to 71. It's not huge change but it has been a noticeable amount only when I play ARAM but I don't complain about. I already learned to deal with it.

Also all they want to do is blame the company since it's always the companies fault. People just don't want to think the issue is their end.

Binxy PrimeAug 28, 20154 votes

It is the company's fault, they moved their servers and now my ping is 5 times what it was. I supported them financially for years and they degrade my service, how is that fair?

ZenBudSAug 28, 20153 votes

I feel like they stole from me with this move.

ZenBudSAug 28, 20153 votes

the issue is my ping went from 69 to 110. That is on Riot not deciding to make another server but move it to chicago. THAT IS THEIR FAULT... TAKE YOUR MEDS KID.

TheLastShadow45Aug 28, 20151 votes

Do I need to point out my little change in ping despite living near the west coast? Meaning I have good internet and yours is lacking.

ZenBudSAug 28, 20152 votes

i had 69 it changed to 110... your post sucked and provided very little info.

FrontlinerDeltaAug 27, 20153 votes

Ah, so now it's just west coast internet isn't good enough, high pings are totally playable....Hmmm all arguments east coast players accused west coasters of making.

Funny, isn't it?

ZenBudSAug 28, 20155 votes

hypocrites, the whole lot of em.

yellowbricksAug 29, 20153 votes

Who are you to tell people they shouldn't complain? Whether their ping went up by 1 or 100, it's still a degradation of the quality of service they've come to expect over the years. Before anyone gives me any of their dumb "lel salty" meme crap, I live closer to chicago so it would benefit me, but I have this strange condition (some call it empathy) where I feel bad for people who got hoist into the position we were at for a while.

If their ping went from 40 to 80, that's double the ping they were used to, they're not worthy to bitch that the game just got 2x worse for them? Are they not able to rightfully point out how in the year of our lord 2015 having one singular server to serve an entire continent for one of the biggest e-sports games is outright insane, and that riot's excuses of fracturing the community and shit are absolute bs when other games do it no problem? I literally can't think of another game that doesn't have at least US east and US west servers, and big shocker, some games like rocket league let you select different servers to play with, so you can still play with anyone if you want to take the lag, but riot thinks it's a service that costs $20 to transfer your entire 1MB profile data to a different server, so they're lightyears behind that point anyway.

I'm glad the ping is a bit more normalized for people, even if some are acting like entitled, self righteous twats, but don't get on your high horse and try to dictate that others should just eat shit and like it.