Im really glad and pissed off at the same time about xin zhao rework.

A GIANT CAPYBARA·Sep 12, 2017·18 votes·1,497 views

Xin Zhao is getting reworked next patch and here is what they're going to do here. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/tMx1eY6r-xin-zhao-gameplay-update-to-the-arena

Ok so now you got the gist of it I have a big question (of note I'm going to be going over the concept of the rework, numbers are excluded)

You literally have the most basic kit that has nothing to offer a team and literally has 2 rip off abilities and a EXTREMELY basic ability. His Q is a simple AA reset with bonus damage and a knockup on 3rd hit reducing cd's each hit. Ok got it simple, boring but does it's job ok. W: Literally sej w, swing in an arc and strike doing a slow at the end. Literally what? Why with all this potential are you blatantly stealing an ability on a character you reworked 4 MONTHS AGO ONLY!? You are doing the same with E turning it into a Wukong E with a slow but granted, I'll assume wukong is going to get a rework down the line. Sej isn't at least until the game takes a giant shift to warrant it, which won't happen for the very long foreseeable future.

So with all that in mind I have to ask what is the point of his kit? What is he going be to be doing compared to every champ that only he can do? His ult I honestly fucking love, great disengage ability and really can fuck over teams, fail if you mistime it, and actually gives a really cool strategic niche to his kit. You actually made his ult something that teams can make use of in certain contexts and you guys get a 10/10 with that, you really do. But really, without his ult, hes not going to be doing anything special, hes a guy with a spear which apparently has the same use as a flail since you're copying the EXACT SAME ABILITY. He didn't have anything to offer in his kit prior other than being good if his numbers are high. Like seriously ornn may not be super OP but don't deny that his kit is very unique and has a lot of things that he will only be able to provide and that's without his ult. His kit is perfectly unique and varied which only his kit can do. Given the amount of champs every champ should IMO have something they offer to their team that only the champ they pick can do, why is it still ok to have the most generalistic, uninteresting, bland, same statchecky basic kit as he does before? You did everything right on his ult but cheaped out on his basic kit. He is meant to be simple I get that, but why doesn't he offer something to his team thats unique to him outside of his ult? It's baffling how much thought and time went into his ult and stategic power it gives and just copy-pasting other abilities.

12 Comments

QuephaSep 12, 201721 votes

They explained that Q and E were kept the same because they're what make Xin Zhao feel like you're playing Xin Zhao.

He can't move during his W like Sejuani can.

Most champions don't have anything super duper unique if you don't count their ult, considering Xin Zhao had practically nothing unique to begin with it's not surprising that a small/medium update doesn't instantly turn him into the craziest champion we've ever seen.

It is a small update because Xin Zhao's current kit is really, really bad with microscopic amounts of skill expression and counterplay and this really should be dealt with much faster than they could expect to get to him with a VGU, and they had a couple ideas that look like they're panning out into something good. Furthermore, he's an iconic representative of a class of champions (Diver) that has a lot of examples of champions who are in dire need of work to the point where the identity of the class is less "headstrong warriors that dive into danger and somehow come out the other side after dishing out more mayhem than anyone would expect" and more "skill-less bullshit from back before Riot knew how to make melee champions"

GayFluffyUnicornSep 12, 20171 votes

Yeah and his Q and E is what should have givem him a proper rework. Noone likes "oh you got in my range now get oneshotted" with practical no counterplay. Either you are tanky enough to survive that engage or atleast bring enough dmg on your own. If a champ has just one small CC he is down like jayce E him away. And nothing about this binary design has been changed. Either i can go in and fight you and there is nothing you can do and i win or i can't.

Velzard of KozSep 12, 20171 votes

Most champions don't have anything super duper unique if you don't count their ult, considering Xin Zhao had practically nothing unique to begin with it's not surprising that a small/medium update doesn't instantly turn him into the craziest champion we've ever seen.

But you can uniquefy what you recycle. For example, Vel'Koz Q is just a skillshot, but one that splits. Urgot and Galio also basically share ability, but Urgot's is unique in that it flings behind "from distance" for his passive, Singed's fling then has the synergy of rooting into other ability etc.

Yes, Xin's W will be slightly different but it feels like there would be room for something better than that.

SohleksSep 12, 20174 votes

They are probably keeping his Q because it's both an iconic and nice ability. It's pretty satisfying already and unique.

His dash is his dash. Should they change his approach to mobility?

What is wrong with "Sejauni's W" TBH a dodgeable area thing albeit with a low chance to evade short of blinking out is probably gonna happen to more melee champs. It makes sense to me with a spear he can have some reach.

What do you expect? Certainly T flipping him inside and out with 10,000 appendages? They have basically done that on his ult. A poppy level rework out of nowhere?

derpderppSep 12, 20172 votes

Agreed, it's better than nothing however. I'm just concerned they will use this as an excuse to not touch him which them makes his kit look like it's not even a part of league anymore.

JiftoSep 12, 20171 votes

Yeah, feels like they bitched out halfway to appease his plyerbase and keep his overly basic and uninteresting kit to keep them happy over gameplay health/strategy.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 12, 20172 votes

Exactly. His gameplay is absolutey unhealthy. The same way how people hate irelia. They point and click you to death and either they are strong enough and kill or they don't and they die and i see nothing about it changed in this rework because guess what: his Q E point and click is the actual problem. Not his passive or ult. I'm saying it here right now: Riot will have failed, he becomes beyond busted and will 1v5 once again then he gets nerfed into the shitter and be left for another rework.

SweedishGunnerSep 12, 20171 votes

His ult sounds like a ranged version of old Poppy ult.

Bard R FridaySep 12, 20171 votes

His new W is much more interesting than the old one which literally just gave you attack speed on use and nothing else. The new W may be the same as another ability, but his old W was the same as so many other abilities which are just AS steroids. It's still an improvement on the old kit.

KloqdqSep 12, 20171 votes

From what I understand about the W is it is a small swipe in front of him mainly for jungle clear and then a long thrust. He can't move but it is a fast animation. Now although it seems copy paste on paper, it seems from what I understand to at least be somewhat different and it plays up his spear element.

ErockandrollSep 12, 20171 votes

I know people keep pointing to sej regarding the "Forward sweep, forward thrust" attack. But before sej, didn't they also do that with Rengar when they did the Assassin update?

I think Riot is continuing to use that pattern because it works on melee's. And it does gives a bit of AoE clear, Which will help him in the Jungle a little. (And would otherwise require a hydra item for the same effect)

And the Attack pattern isn't the kit. Riot probably isn't going to be afraid of copying attacks because they will be still unique champions.