Will vladimir need another rework down the line?

A GIANT CAPYBARA·4/12/2017, 1:35:35 AM·42 votes·2,726 views

Ever since they vlad medium scale rework I felt that overall it was much more positive than I expected, but it only felt like it did half of what was intended to really help fully realize our favorite hemomancer, below im going to list what I felt was done right and what could have been expanded upon. Success of the rework as a whole and what was improved upon compared to the state of old vlad. With reasons why it was a step in the right direction.

                                                    Reason 1.Give vladimir players more option to make his kit less binary in gameplay and playstyle, while maintaing or adding moments of visceral triumph.

This was been in my eyes the most successful part of vladimirs kit, having options in his kit which has lead more more combos that can be done as well as adding much more 'oomph' feeling to his kit has been the most notable. The change to his E makes it add some decision making on vlads kit of positioning for the massive blood bomb to be sent out on the fight and making you choose how much youre willing to pay in your health to amp up the damage. The change to his ult was very appropriate in this regard as well spellvamp being vladimirs main source of healng along with his q made his healing very sustained however very unnoticable during a entire fight a +76, +235 +54 isnt that much noticable as opposed to now, now landing a multi man ult makes using your ult feel very noticable and rewarding. Getting a 2k+ heal can turn the tides of a fight and makes you playing around that hp pop very satisfying.

                     Reason 2. Gave windows of power that vlad and his opponents can play around.

This is ever so slightly behind the first point in importance, but im sure we can all agree that before the rework vlad was the epitome of a statcheck champion. If you had better stats basically you win if not you lose due to how simplistic his kit and playstyle was to go vs. Now with the currenty form of his kit power is very clear to both vlad and his opponent making damage coming out of vlad not seem so hidden. The q mechanic is the most notable one as having a meter below vlad will give both vlad and his opponent clear chances of when hes going to hurt A LOT and when hes going to be healing A LOT, not to mention having the extra healing be mostly based on missing hp is very good to make vlad have to take risks to get the most out of it. The E is very noticable as having a 1 second channel time to get its damage up gives opponents time to either cc him asap to stop the damage from increasing or just disengaging in order to avoid the damage entirely, its AOE being missliles being able to be blocked was also a good addition to make getting to the backline vital to get the damage off. And finally the ult is noteworthy as well as having a massive amount of burst healing no matter your current hp gives opponents info as well as us vlad players when were going to be getting a large chunk of healing off.

Those are the most notable points I can make about the positives of the rework, any other ones I felt were too small to be added or must have overlooked.

Now Lets go into the aspects of what could have been improved, not listing this as a negative because overall the changes to me feel so positive that these aspects feel more along the lines of missed potential as opposed to a negative experience when playing as vlad.

                    Reason 1. Still lacks a unique niche to bring to team compositions.

This is to me the most notable issue with vladimir as a whole since his rework, when hes been picked as a champ its been because he can deal a lot of damage while building twords the defensive ap items and by the nature of his kit getting more out of it than others. When playing as vlad you know your niche to playing him, you can deal A LOT of damage but you got to get everything setup for yourself, getting the q preped before you engage channeling your e, trying to hit as many targets with your ult are the noticable ones, as well as having the highest potential healing of all champs int he game in forms of burst healing, this differes heavily from most dominant champs when it comes to healing, darius,swain,trunle,mundo all have abilities that keep the healing much more consistent with vlad )with perhaps darius on the line of burst healing to sustained, but a low cd on his q and it being the same always as opposed to the crimson rush system makes it more consistent).

This is all fine and dandy for vlad and playing him but when your team sees a vladimir he offers next to nothing in terms of a strategic niche in why hes played, you might say the ult gives a strogn niche while I agree with this a 10% damage amp in its own right doesnt have as much impact as more strategic niches other champs gives, when a adc hitting a ulted target they 344 attack going to 388 wont make them feel like "wow vlad really made that impactful". And this is to be expected vladimir is not a selfless champ by design we are playing to not amp our teams power but more to hurt the enemy team and have his niche be more twords nerfing the enemy teams power as opposed to buffing our teams power if that makes sense.

                        Reason 2. Crimson rush should be a mechanic that his kit revolves around as a resource and not as a simple q buff.

This might be the most controversial but this mechanic was truly underutilized as a way to really get rid of the old statstick archetype that vlad suffered from as a champion, being a hemomancer vlad should have to work around this mechanic in order to get the most out of his kit by addressing one of his biggest issues that his kit suffers from of the battle mages in the game.

He has no reason to stay in the fight after using his combo whatsoever except to be in range when its off cd in 5-3 seconds (assuming level 13 so q and e are maxed out, and cdr obviously).

This is what might be holding vladimir back very much so looking at the whole class of battle mages in the game Using the battle mages classification from riot Karthus Vladimir Ryze Swain Rumble Cassiopeia Aurelion Sol Gangplank (hybrid Skirmisher) personally dont agree with this one I think skirmisher is more close to what gp is or a burst mage since his barrel is a 1 combo ability and hardly gives him reason to have sustained damage but its riots list and I agree with the rest here Malzahar

All of these champs listed have a form of sustained damage in their kit that forces them to after a initial combo to keep themselves within their opponents range to keep the damage going, vladimir doesnt have that feature currently in his kit. Vlad is teetering more twords a burst mage with lower cooldowns as opposed to a battle mage because of this reason.

Giving him a crimson rush mechanic that affects his entire kit in some way would give vlad a reason to keep fighting after his cds are down initially and make his kit put in a better direction that makes vlads gameplay more simple for his opponents to understand while adding more nuance to our favorite crimson reaper and spicing up his kit further.

                 Reason 3. Skillcurve in vlad should be slightly-moderately put further in the direction he rework took him.

Vlad before the rework was too simple of a champ to play i think we can all agree, very low mechanical needs and very easy to understand and get the hang of after about 5 games or so. The rework helped aid this issue a bit by making vladimirs skillfloor a little higher as a whole while making his skillcap Id say around a 6/10 of all champs in the game, slightly higher than average to get the more advanced tactics down.

That being said vladimir theme of blood being normally seen as a 'forbidden art' akin to other champs in the lore such as zed follow this same pattern of lowish skillfloor to get everything his kit can do down, but making the absolute most really showing champion mastery and very VERY visceral feelings of champion master. I feel that with adding a mechanic to make vlad feel more purposeful of a champ other than big damage, large self healing could very much add to this and give vlad a more Gameplay,architype,difficulty curve put better together as a whole.

Anyways thats my thought on the rework after playing for it some time and to answer the question initially of the post do i think vlad will need another rework overall? Yes I do vladimirs kit still is shown to be problematic akin to the old vlad with the issues of tanky/damage ratio his kit has while the overall goals of making fair a better step in the right direction but not fully realized as a whole and thus will hinder vlad in giving him a good spot in balance, very small meta shifts still affect vlad moreso than others and makes getting him to a 'perfect' spot overall much difficult than it should be, which a rework would resolve.

OF NOTE. By rework and assuming you read it all I dont mean scrapping anything in his kit really I like the way it is but perhaps adding more and fleshing it out would give more balance levers for riot to manage than the current one of vlad.

Anyways thanks for reading this all much appreciated. If this gets enough traction and support in the near future Id love to share my personal thoughts on how to address the issues of the rework that I listed above to really show what this champs thematic is capable of!

16 Comments

Over Innsmouth4/12/2017, 4:02:30 AM13 votes

Short answer: yes, but not desperately.

Long answer: Vlad's got a fairly well-cemented gameplay identity (AoE DPS mage with burst sustain that pays for it with short ranges, an atrocious earlygame, and low-no utility) that could benefit from some modernizations. The core aspects of his kit don't need changing, I'd argue that the only things that need ground-up reworking are Crimson Pact (passive) and Haemoplague (ult). Crimson Pact is thematically fantastic for Vladimir and grants him the beefiness that he requires in order to function, but it's simply too binary and uninteractive as it's nothing more than a stat stick that amplifies all the gold you spend on AP or HP items. Haemoplague is similarly thematically fulfilling, but has repeatedly caused problems in balancing him - particularly between high and low elo. For now, he's a passable, usually underpicked for various reasons (doesnt ubiquitously fulfill a teams needs like Maokai, very low lane presence, no CC, people simply arent drawn to his archetype and playstyle in general), who enjoys occasional bouts of popularity, and is generally perceived as incredibly frustrating but not broken to the extent that Champions like Yasuo, Tryndamere, and any of the fourteen future Ryze reworks are/will be.

Vladimir is fine as he is. Not great, not awful, but fine.

Transfusion, and Crimson Rush by extension, Sanguine Pool, and Tides of Blood are perfectly fine as they are and would only need the most minimal of work if Vladimir would get a full VGU. If I were to fix any of them on the spot, I'd relocate the movement speed buff on CR to actually hitting a Champion with the spell and buff the value, as oppose to the guaranteed ms buff we have on triggering the spell, but the value is so low we hardly notice it.

Reason 2. Crimson rush should be a mechanic that his kit revolves around as a resource and not as a simple q buff.

I really, really like the sound of this idea and am slightly envious I didnt come up with it. Part of Vladimir's fantasy is that he's ungated by resources conventionally, and his decision making to use spells is based on whether he can pull a net gain of health from a trade or all-in. The concept of a secondary resource that dictates how strong your abilities are however is something I'm a huge fan of - especially on Champions without conventional resource gating in the first place. The one thing that Tryndamere as a design is the ramping threat of his Fury bar (everything else is basically dogshit), and Renekton does a similar thing. Giving Vladimir's basic abilities just enough oomph to survive and function, but rewarding them for managing a secondary resource bar in addition to their own health and cooldowns is something I would love to see in a pending rework.

Vlad is teetering more t'words a burst mage with lower cooldowns as opposed to a battle mage because of this reason.

You're right about this, and this is personally something I like a lot. His CD's are low enough to keep him as a constant threat, but his play pattern as a burst mage leaves more room for skill expression in chaining your abilities for maximum damage at once, and allows opponents more room to outplay. Compare the "low CD burst mage" that Vladimir is to the "sit in my range and take damage all the time" that Swain or Ryze or Cassiopeia are.

Those are just my general thoughts of the top of my head.

xJLx MCHammer4/12/2017, 2:02:24 AM2 votes

He needs a rework

I feel like, if you are going to give a champion some sort of sustain that Vlad has, should have some sort of resource that is controlled outside of CD. Why? because if you give him a cost that's HP or just CD timer, anytime there is a huge shift in a meta or item changes, he needs some sort of adjustments.

Best give him a new kind of resource that unique to him.

Viktor Von Lazer4/12/2017, 3:43:12 AM1 votes

The OP definitely touched on a reason I've always found it hard to go back to playing vladimir. What does he bring to the table? Damage... ok, well tons of champions do that, High AoE damage? well there's Karthus with a global ultimate, Azir with a knock up/knock back. Orianna with a game ending ultimate. High DPS? Cassiopeia highest single target DPS in the game, Ryze insane Burst DPS, The Ultimate is there but .... really compared to all these other champions mentioned he doesn't FEEL as impactful as Killing anyone from anywhere on the map with a Karthus ult, or landing an Orianna ult on the adc and midlaner, Or shuffling the enemy team onto a turret you just made etc etc. He brings good damage, but it doesn't feel like much else.

WoonStruck4/12/2017, 4:02:20 AM1 votes

After the tank update, Vlad WILL fulfill a very specific niche. He'll be burst/dps at the exact point where adaptive helm does not function.

Unless you have literally 0 ping and perfect input timing, adaptive helm will not ever affect Vlad (outside of his W ticks) and that's very easily solved with a minor changes to runes in order to end up .03% away from 3 seconds.

The lowest cooldown Q/E can get is 3 seconds, and adaptive helm is currently on PBE for 3 second and under repeat instances of damage if you don't know what I'm talking about.


He'll have the benefits of both, as well as the drawbacks of both, and a lack of cc/mobility on top of it. However, Adaptive helm will not stop him from doing his job, nor will tankiness to the same degree that other mages have to deal with.

Toastersaot4/12/2017, 2:02:09 PM1 votes

Copypasta much /u/DoYouEvenLifto :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/VladimirMains/comments/5zpaac/will_vlad_need_another_rework_down_the_line/

Also rework the passive and his ult. Damage amp and passive are hidden power that could be changed to be a lot more fun to play around. Not only that, maybe they could buff his trash base stats (which are kept low because of his passive).

iBlue4/12/2017, 1:53:41 AM1 votes

I agree, felt as if it only went halfway to fully realize the character, and I would love to hear your thoughts on the update since you seem to have a good grasp on the character.

SUPERX4PANDA4/12/2017, 2:46:53 PM1 votes

I made a reworked version of him a long time ago, but I definitely think the MYMU put him closer to where he needs to be. I think (as you do), most of his base kit is generally where it needs to be. I think Crimson Rush affecting Tides of Blood in some way would be cool so you choose which of your main spells you empower. Passive certainly needs work. It's concept (making Vlad bulkier while still being able to build damage) is spot on, it just needs to be more interactive and less stat-checkish in nature. For his ult, I would remove the damage increase on ally attacks and spells and make it somewhat like Alistar passive, where perhaps he heals nearby allies for ~10/20/30% of what the ult healed Vlad for. This would give him an interesting niche, being able to heal his allies as a battle mage, but only by a fairly small amount. You'd have to land a good ultimate for it to really mean anything, and your allies have to stay close to you to receive the benefit. Like Tides said, the MYMU put him in the right direction, but he could certainly use an extra Shyv/Aatrox level set of changes to finally cement Vlad in a good spot.

Yggdräsïl4/12/2017, 2:05:52 AM1 votes

Good read, vlad is interesting so whatever you got is more than i trust riot to balance vlad around.