Kog'Maw Smite Botlane next patch?

nananananacat·Apr 25, 2016·6 votes·2,357 views

Lane with Lulu. The core would be like Bloodrazors, Runuaan's, Guinsoo's and BoTRK. Possibly A.Speed boots. You want to get close to the 5.0 A.Speed cap, for the 15% max HP on hit per second with Madred's, 6% of their current HP every .2 seconds, and the Guinsoo's damage ramping up over time, in a teamfight. You would be doing so much damage to three people at once. Red smite for any assassins that jump you so you can hopefully survive their burst with Lulu shield ult. Last item can be whatever you want, although I think that taking a Frozen Mallet be so annoying for the enemy team.

34 Comments

ZephyrDrakeMay 3, 20163 votes

yeah assuming you even are allowed to accomplish half that build with a worthless summoner for quite a good portion of the game. Kog doesn't need to have an even weaker early game and Lulu won't do jack to help his already poor early game until she is lvl 6 in which case if the enemy is actually smart would have already shut you down hard by that point

nananananacatApr 25, 20161 votes

It would make his % HP damage more hybrid

WenderwallApr 25, 20161 votes

Any champ can reach only 2.45 AS and kog can double that using an ability but not go beyond 2.45 when his ability is inactive. i.e. getting 5 AS items is overkill. thou, I would say replace Guinsoo with PD and Bork with BT. BT's 20% lifesteal + crit will work wondefully with Bloodrazor's %HP on-hit damage compared to bork's current %hp damage.

Not sure where you got 15% max HP on hit. Bloodrazer give's only 3%HP on-hit.

item 3715 (bloodrazer) item 3006 item 3085 item 3508 / item 3031 item 3072 item 3046 - This should give 70% crit + >2.2 AS + 20% lifesteal + 40% CDR+250% Bonus Crit Damage.

That said, he'll be weak AF till he get 2600 gold to complete Bloodrazer, he'll hardly do any damage Smite cannot be casted without item 3706 / item 3715 i.e. wait till 1000 gold and hope to survive laning/ganks.

MegaManYYZApr 25, 20161 votes

Guinsoo should be a lot better than PD. the phantom hit every 2nd AA will provide more DPS, and should be more cost efficient at a fully stacked Guinsoo.

WenderwallApr 25, 20161 votes

it'll take 3+ seconds to get stacked. Once stacked it gives about same AS as PD. Only benefit is phantom hit. Now with PD, you are MS ( walkover minions), last attack shield, CRIT from get go and is 1000 gold cheaper.

And use that 1K additional gold to get 2 item 2140 .

In a team fight, 3 seconds matter. So you want to crit for 600+ damage per hit with 2.2AS or just do 50% chance of 600 damage with 1.8 AS and hope to live those 3 seconds to use stacked Guinsoo.

It all comes down to how fast it'll get stacked. Even at 2.4 AS it'll take 2.5 seconds. so with 1.8 ( assuming best case) it will take 4 seconds.

MegaManYYZApr 25, 20161 votes

that's why all the good players get their guinsoo stacked before a fight and why would someone buy 2 item 2140 ?

kog is all about on hit damage, crit is great and all, but in mid game Guinsoo + Hurricane will make you hit harder and much more often.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

When you say mid game, you mean to get Guinsoo as item 3 ?

MegaManYYZApr 26, 20161 votes

Guinsoo 1/2 item. I don't count boots as an item.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

I'm assuming your first item is going to be IE/ES/BT ( one damage item). So no attack speed. Of If you get get first item as PD/SS/Hurricane then no damage.

It's phantom hit will do so less damage. With Hurricane your AS will be ~1.1 ( considering 30% AS from runes) It'll take 6 seconds to stack Guinsoo which will give 48% AS. So with stacked Guuinsoo it'll be ~1.4 AS. Now if W is activated your AS is ~2.8. 2.8 sounds ok.. but it won't hurt anything, except for wave clear.

Guinsoo as 2nd item is not gonna help. ( Vayne is different story, she has true damage so AS will always help her)

MegaManYYZApr 26, 20161 votes

in korea they already build Guinsoo first item, now it's only better and the components are even more useful before the item is even complete. guinsoos 1st or 2nd item will be the build to go to.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

Current Guinsoo is NOT SAME as Patch 6.9 Guinsoo. Current one is 1st/2nd item for many champs. New item will not benefit anyone if built 1st or 2nd item. You have to have damage/some ability to make use of phantom hit.

Unlike previous guinsoo which provided insane AoE, this one gives nothing.

It'll be fun to watch (You) take new guinsoo as first item and see your self get killed.

Amélie CauchemarApr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it'll take 3+ seconds to get stacked. Once stacked it gives about same AS as PD. Only benefit is phantom hit. Now with PD, you are MS ( walkover minions), last attack shield, CRIT from get go and is 1000 gold cheaper.

And use that 1K additional gold to get 2 .

In a team fight, 3 seconds matter. So you want to crit for 600+ damage per hit with 2.2AS or just do 50% chance of 600 damage with 1.8 AS and hope to live those 3 seconds to use stacked Guinsoo.

It all comes down to how fast it'll get stacked. Even at 2.4 AS it'll take 2.5 seconds. so with 1.8 ( assuming best case) it will take 4 seconds.

It'd actually only take 1 second, if even at all.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

I'm looking forward to your maths to prove he can get 5AS in 1sec.

Amélie CauchemarApr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm looking forward to your maths to prove he can get 5AS in 1sec.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed. Thanks for stopping by.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

lol. Damn boy, you sure have aced in math to prove that he can achieve 5AS in 1sec without stacking Guinsoo and not getting 4 AS items.

I do love to have you in my enemy team. I can open a salt factory with you as chief production manager.

Amélie CauchemarApr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

lol. Damn boy, you sure have aced in math to prove that he can achieve 5AS in 1sec without stacking Guinsoo and not getting 4 AS items.

I do love to have you in my enemy team. I can open a salt factory with you as chief production manager.

Guinsoo's atckspd boost is hardly relevant tbh. People often forget that this is actually a team game and there are items + champions that help achieve the dream.

For example: It's impossible to have 100% crit on Jhin + have armor pen + a quicksilver. Unless you get item 3050 .

With that I'm assuming you didn't even take runes into effect. With how Kog works in particular scrapping ad marks for attack speed marks actually helps achieve this. You can go the Vayne route and even get attack speed blues and just have armor seals. You don't need the standard cookie cutter rune page. After that all you really need is item 3504 to have on your support.

With all that said, to achieve the particular dream you'd just need item 3931 item 3115 item 3085 Then you can substitute an attack speed item with item 3142 With runaans + youmuus you don't really need boots. So, you can just clear that out. item 3153 slap that in there if you so want in exchange for boots. Then you can go maximum %%%got and go item 3022 . OR, you can go item 3046 Whichever you really want to do.

If you're still not comfortable. Warwick He's obv going to be seeing a lot of play, so just ask to have him on a team.

Voila.

P.S: You'll probably never face me in your life if you can't even beat bronze 2 players. So, keep dreaming.

WenderwallApr 26, 20161 votes

I don't think I'll recognize you in real life unless you are wearing a bronze LOL Medal.

item 3050 - Gives no AS. - This items passive power will be lost while stacking Guinsoo. item 3504 - Gives 15% AS

Quints + AS Marks = 29% AS ( If you replace Glyph and seals then early game is gone) item 3046 - 45% AS/ item 3115 -50% AS item 3085 - 40%AS item 3931 - 40%AS item 3124 - No AS ( till stacked) item 3006 - 30% AS or item 3153 -40% AS item 3142 - 40% AS when active.

With 6 items you had mentioned, yes achieving 2.5 AS ( and then 5AS) is possible.

I'm confused how Jhin, WW or Vayne come into discussion when this was always about kog+Lulu. If talking abt team play then Kog or lulu will be targeted first.

P.S.: Never knew Bronze 2 was the highest lvl. When you can't do proper math, it doesn't give my confidence that you know what you are speaking of. You are talking of late game 6 item 45mins into game scenario where a tanky fizz or ekko or Vi or Malphite or WW won't attack a carry ADC.

P.P.S: If Bronze 2 player are not targeting ADC/APC then yeah I'll never play with them.

Amélie CauchemarApr 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I don't think I'll recognize you in real life unless you are wearing a bronze LOL Medal.

- Gives no AS. - This items passive power will be lost while stacking Guinsoo. - Gives 15% AS

Quints + AS Marks = 29% AS ( If you replace Glyph and seals then early game is gone) - 45% AS/ -50% AS - 40%AS - 40%AS - No AS ( till stacked) - 30% AS or -40% AS - 40% AS when active.

With 6 items you had mentioned, yes achieving 2.5 AS ( and then 5AS) is possible.

I'm confused how Jhin, WW or Vayne come into discussion when this was always about kog+Lulu. If talking abt team play then Kog or lulu will be targeted first.

P.S.: Never knew Bronze 2 was the highest lvl. When you can't do proper math, it doesn't give my confidence that you know what you are speaking of. You are talking of late game 6 item 45mins into game scenario where a tanky fizz or ekko or Vi or Malphite or WW won't attack a carry ADC.

P.P.S: If Bronze 2 player are not targeting ADC/APC then yeah I'll never play with them.

You really are retarded.

Not worth wasting my time on.

nananananacatMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think I'll recognize you in real life unless you are wearing a bronze LOL Medal.

- Gives no AS. - This items passive power will be lost while stacking Guinsoo. - Gives 15% AS

Quints + AS Marks = 29% AS ( If you replace Glyph and seals then early game is gone) - 45% AS/ -50% AS - 40%AS - 40%AS - No AS ( till stacked) - 30% AS or -40% AS - 40% AS when active.

With 6 items you had mentioned, yes achieving 2.5 AS ( and then 5AS) is possible.

I'm confused how Jhin, WW or Vayne come into discussion when this was always about kog+Lulu. If talking abt team play then Kog or lulu will be targeted first.

P.S.: Never knew Bronze 2 was the highest lvl. When you can't do proper math, it doesn't give my confidence that you know what you are speaking of. You are talking of late game 6 item 45mins into game scenario where a tanky fizz or ekko or Vi or Malphite or WW won't attack a carry ADC.

P.P.S: If Bronze 2 player are not targeting ADC/APC then yeah I'll never play with them.

Additionally, the first two items are meant to be bought on supports. You don't know what the item passives do it seems. The first one is an active that gives you and an ally this bond. If you are near each other, you gain stacks. At 100 stacks, it gives bonus AP and critical strike to both of you.

The second item activates on heals or shields (think Soraka/Janna/Karma etc). It gives your allies attack speed and on hit damage when you give them a heal or shield.

Also, each stack on Guinsoo's gives some attack speed, it's not max stacks gives attack speed. Max stacks only gives Sated Devourer double-hit passive.

nananananacatMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm looking forward to your maths to prove he can get 5AS in 1sec.

I just came back to this thread and I realized. Read what Kog'Maw's W active does. You have no clue as to what it does apparently. If you can reach 2.5 attackspeed on Kog'Maw, then you can reach 5.0 with the same items. His W active doubles his attackspeed and raises his cap to 5.0 attackspeed.

If you go test in a custom game right now with items that will have the same attackspeed as the build I initially mentioned, you come really close to the 5.0 cap, where it's basically 5.0.

nananananacatApr 26, 20161 votes

It all comes down to how fast it'll get stacked. Even at 2.4 AS it'll take 2.5 seconds. so with 1.8 ( assuming best case) it will take 4 seconds.

Kog can attack up to 5 times per second, because the cap is 2.5 attacks per second and he doubles his A.Speed and the A.Speed cap while his W is active. This build attempts to hit 2.5 A.Speed per second, and comes really close to. Attacking 5 times a second would make it take around a second to fully stack...

nananananacatApr 26, 20161 votes

Not sure where you got 15% max HP on hit. Bloodrazer give's only 3%HP on-hit.

When you hit 5 times a second, it's 15% max HP on hit per second

nananananacatApr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Any champ can reach only 2.45 AS and kog can double that using an ability but not go beyond 2.45 when his ability is inactive. i.e. getting 5 AS items is overkill. thou, I would say replace Guinsoo with PD and Bork with BT. BT's 20% lifesteal + crit will work wondefully with Bloodrazor's %HP on-hit damage compared to bork's current %hp damage.

Not sure where you got 15% max HP on hit. Bloodrazer give's only 3%HP on-hit.

(bloodrazer) / - This should give 70% crit + >2.2 AS + 20% lifesteal + 40% CDR+250% Bonus Crit Damage.

That said, he'll be weak AF till he get 2600 gold to complete Bloodrazer, he'll hardly do any damage Smite cannot be casted without / i.e. wait till 1000 gold and hope to survive laning/ganks.

The cap is also 2.5 attacks per second, and Kog doubles that cap and his attack speed and can attack 5 times per second

Meep ManApr 25, 20161 votes

More like: item 3931 item 3124 item 3153 item 3085 item 3031 item 3072

I don't buy Boots on Kog since he really only becomes outrageous DPS when he isn't moving. Plus, usually if you get caught out with Kog, you won't be getting away with movement speed. Mostly peel from allies or your own slow.

For note, that's:

6% current health physical damage
3% max health physical damage
2.5% max health magic damage
15 flat magic damage
15 flat physical damage
Another 20 flat magic damage As bonus on-hit effects every basic attack, plus the 55% AD that can critical strike to 137.5% AD with Infinity Edge. Once Guinsoo's hits 6 stacks, tall these on-hit effects are doubled to:
12% current health
6% max health (physical)
5% max health (magic)
30 flat magic damage
30 flat physical damage
Another 30 flat magic damage This isn't even mentioning the potential bonuses that new Red Buff could give Kog'Maw since it now scales with attack speed, technically.

Basically, Kog'Maw is going to be absurd next patch and I am betting on nerfs later this PBE cycle or 6.10.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 25, 20161 votes

most likely.

LadyRenlyApr 26, 20161 votes

no, kog has a weak lane phase, being down a summ spell will disadvantage him even more, causing the enemy to invalidate him

QuephaMay 3, 20161 votes

I don't think you should take a bad summoner spell so you can buy a bad BoRK

nananananacatMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you should take a bad summoner spell so you can buy a bad BoRK

The bad summoner is to get the new jungle item next patch.

The BoTRK is so good in this build because it gives the lifesteal to sustain, % current HP on hit damage to add onto all of the extra % damage in this build, the passive for kiting, and the attack speed.

QuephaMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The bad summoner is to get the new jungle item next patch.

The BoTRK is so good in this build because it gives the lifesteal to sustain, % current HP on hit damage to add onto all of the extra % damage in this build, the passive for kiting, and the attack speed.

"bad BoRK" refers to bloodrazer.

If you aren't jungling, bloodrazer is a bad version of BoRK.

nananananacatMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"bad BoRK" refers to bloodrazer.

If you aren't jungling, bloodrazer is a bad version of BoRK.

I think it's alright because the damage stays consistent the entire time because it's % max HP, not % current HP.

QuephaMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think it's alright because the damage stays consistent the entire time because it's % max HP, not % current HP.

As an adc, Kog'maw needs the damage more on full health targets than low health targets. Especially since his R outranges his autos by a great deal and deals stupid amounts of damage when used to execute.

Irelia BotMay 3, 20161 votes

THere is a simple fix to make him not want to do this but when I suggests some changes t oBotRK to ahve the same passive name as enchantment:bloodrazor people auto downvote without understanding the reasoning behind it.

I hope you people who down vote get slaughtered by a % health damage Kogmaw in your promos.

Athenes LuluMay 3, 20161 votes

Any ADC who doesn't have a defensive summoner's makes a very easy target. On a Kog'Maw, who can't just click a button to safety? Oho, shit just gets so much better.

Lulu's kind of shitty early game (support wise we all know her laning as a mid/toplaner is super tough) can't really cover too much for him other than just be the babysitter; things like Janna does the babysitting job better if you even wanted a support who can just babysit and keep him safe, unless that Lulu player knows from the bottom of his head on what the hell he's going to do.