Why did Riot Nerf Kindred?

Yago·6/2/2017, 5:29:45 PM·3 votes·1,244 views

Serious question. Because these changes are essentially straight nerfs. I remember seeking them on the PBE awhile back and praying they didn't hit live. But I am, sadly, not surprised to see them go through. Their build diversity has been obliterated, and their damage is significantly lower at almost every stage of the game.

This is like reverse of when they changed Lucian's range to 500. They gave Kindred a small bit of range and nerfed every other part of their kit to further obscurity.

EDIT:

Vote down this thread all you like.

It won't change the fact that these abominable changes are exactly that.

And unlike all the people clicking that little down arrow, I've actually run the numbers on this.

20 Comments

Winters Dawn6/2/2017, 6:16:48 PM3 votes

Kindred main here to inform you these are not nerfs. You're welcome

SirLapse6/2/2017, 5:36:42 PM2 votes

They nerfed her early clears via W since it lost base damage, along with her E's base damage. In exchange her scaling is much higher when speaking from a mid game transition and especially for a late game transition.

I don't really enjoy the fact that they said they'd make her stronger early since she's a jungler, but in reality nerfed her early numbers further by requiring AD. She'll be stronger notably after first complete item (Warrior enchant), but everything before that is essentially one big nerf. It's a trade-off. I can say this one has more potential but they've been nerfing literally every champion they've reworked recently before it gets to see any play. Think they're taking the damage creep complaints too seriously.

Nik Nikerson6/4/2017, 1:44:27 AM2 votes

Maybe they changed her kit up so it would be possible to properly balance her later? As she was, she was incredibly difficult to balance.

Shuten Ðoji6/3/2017, 2:59:00 PM1 votes

my biggest issue right now is that the kind of build that kindred needs is really expensive for someone on a jungle budget, and i am really sad to see the passive get changed in the way it did. like yeah the range is nice, but i hardly notice the damage increase on the skills and my autos feel lackluster for a good part of the game.

BeatRushVII6/4/2017, 3:40:23 AM1 votes

Numbers aside, their new E really feels confused to me. Its their only form of cc, so it feels like you want to use it towards the start of a gank so you can get into range or at the start of an engage to counter engage the vanguard a bit;however, because it now scales with missing hp it makes sense to save it towards the very end....

Yago6/6/2017, 3:28:50 AM1 votes

I was going to post a lot of relevant math, but my web browser decided to crash and eat the math I had worked so hard on, so I'm going to be lazy.

Kindred W (New vs Old) against Malphite. Neither had Runes/Materies of ANY kind.

Kindred had Lord Domink's Regards and no other items.

Malphite had Ninja Tabi, Randuin's Omen, Sunfire Cape, Iceborn Gauntlet, Abyssal Mask, and Gargoyle Stoneplate and was under the effects of Malphite's W, Stoneplate's Active, and Black Cleaver from an ally of Kindred.

After resistances were accounted for, Malphite took about 33 more damage in total on the first hit from new W than old W, and this damage difference increased in the favor of New Kindred by about 1 per Mark.

Seems like it's stronger, but, of course, that's only until Malphite starts losing health.

If that same Malphite hadn't activated Stoneplate, and before factoring in resistances, he would take 117.84 base damage from Old Kindred (45 + Total AD ratio), and New Kindred would deal 92.69 base damage (base damage + Bonus AD Ratio + 1.5% Current Health).

After you factor in the resistances, you'd deal only 33% of that with the Magic damage W, and only 25% of that for the Physical damage.

If you're still following this, that'd be 92.69 * .33 versus 117.84 * .25.

That would result in 30.59 versus 29.46 damage dealt, in favor of New Kindred.

By a single fucking point of damage.

New Kindred would deal an additional .165% Current Health damage per Mark, and Old Kindred would deal an additional .15% Current Health damage per Mark.

With 3k HP, that's a difference of about .45 damage, in favor of New Kindred.

By the time he's lost even a few hundred points of health, the base damage difference and better ratio on Old Kindred's W is going to make it stronger.

So yes. Tell me, again, how exactly it is a buff, when their damage is within single digits of each other even when Malphite STILL has 100 armor more than his Magic Resistance AFTER all of the Armor Penetration, so long as he does not have Stoneplate active?

New Kindred's W will deal less damage against an enemy ADC with Mercurial Scimitar and Guardian Angel than Old W.

New Kindred's W will deal less damage against an enemy Mage with Banshee's Veil and Zhonya's Hourglass.

New Kindred's W will deal less damage against an enemy assassin with an Edge of Night/Hexdrinker and Ninja Tabi.

New Kindred's W will deal less damage against an enemy support with Locket of the Iron Solari.

New Kindred' W does less damage early game.

The only cases in which New Kindred's W does MORE damage is in the middle of the game before you and/or someone on your team has purchased LW and/or Black Cleaver, against Armor stacking champions with high base Armor.

And it performs worse in the vast majority of other cases throughout the game. Cases which, I remind you, will and do happen, because someone on your team WILL almost certainly be rushing Black Cleaver, AND multiple members of the enemy team WILL be purchasing Magic Resistance relatively early, because Hexdrinker, Spirit Visage, Locket of the Iron Solari, and Banshee's Veil are ubiquitous right now.

And to top it off you lost the healing from Death's Dance.

The change to W is a nerf in most cases, neutral in some others, and a buff in some few obscure cases.

This. Is. Not. A. Buff.