Removal Aatrox's revive is a bad idea.

Shmeeve··20 votes·9,915 views

Aatrox is very good at the moment, I can see that, and riot is getting rid of hit revive part of his ult. Now let's be clear here, the revive ONLY happens if aatrox kills a champion first, which therefore means that you can stun him when he tries to tower dive, so you can kill him before he can kill you, and take the last turret shot so he can revive. His revive part is already that simple enough, but getting rid of that makes some complications. First off, his base kit is pretty strong, but the reason why he can do so much damage is the sweetspots of his q, which people need to dodge to avoid taking massive damage from the second or third cast. This ability is enhanced by his ult, because not only the damage increases but the healing, which is why aatrox in his ult form is a little overextended in terms of how strong can we make this ult. The healing is what makes him mainly survive, not his revive, his revive can be easily counteracted if opponents know how to secure him once he revives, sort of like how someone waits to finish off someone after they used stopwatch. The healing however allows him to stay alive much longer than he should when rushing in. Also, another thing that really sets me off that riot is getting rid of the revive is that it gives away the core attribute of the champion, being able to revive based on their brutality, which even old aatrox was surrounded of with his kit. If they took away the revive, it wouldn't make aatrox... aatrox. He would just be another riven clone because let's look here... triple cast q with knockups, a short dash, cc, and an ultimate that enhances their attack power. Aatrox wouldn't feel any more different anymore than other existing champs like riven. The self revive for getting a kill is what made him unique, it makes players have the "I can take em or I die" sort of feeling. But there are some pros to getting rid of his revive in terms of it. It makes him easier to deal with for other champions, and can prevent the GA and his ult stacking sort of shenanigan. Those are really the only pros I can technically find. Once this revive is gone, aatrox is literally gone, it's not even the champion it was intended to be anymore.

33 Comments

Groove Crusader7 votes

The revive as it exists now is a gimmick that eats up power budget while making him pick/ban in pro play.

95% of the time ulting results in one of 2 outcomes, either you kill who you were fighting and straight survive off the reset, or die before you can.

Aatrox's identity is a drain-tanking raid boss which the buffs to his ult healing and cooldown-wise reinforce.

If he loses a mechanic that's only useful in a very specific circumstance but gains improvements that will be useful in every game and every fight, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Bârd5 votes

By that logic, remove Blitz's ability to pull people in.

It's just a gimmick that eats his power budget and keeps him in a perpetually underwhelming state since he can't receive big enough buffs to be viable in high elo as anything other than a niche counter.

Sure, if you get rid of it he isn't Blitzcrank anymore, but hey I'm sure people will be OK with the result if it allows P O W E R F I S T to shine.

Groove Crusader3 votes

{quoted}

By that logic, remove Blitz's ability to pull people in.

It's just a gimmick that eats his power budget and keeps him in a perpetually underwhelming state since he can't receive big enough buffs to be viable in high elo as anything other than a niche counter.

Sure, if you get rid of it he isn't Blitzcrank anymore, but hey I'm sure people will be OK with the result if it allows P O W E R F I S T to shine.

Except that Blitz's hook is integral to his function as a champion at any time in every game.

As I said, 95% of the time Aatrox ults, you either win or you die. Removing a mechanic that only applies under very specific circumstances in the vast minority of situations isn't cutting anything from the champion.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Groove Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-11T20:48:48.267+0000)

The revive as it exists now is a gimmick that eats up power budget while making him pick/ban in pro play.

95% of the time ulting results in one of 2 outcomes, either you kill who you were fighting and straight survive off the reset, or die before you can.

Aatrox's identity is a drain-tanking raid boss which the buffs to his ult healing and cooldown-wise reinforce.

If he loses a mechanic that's only useful in a very specific circumstance but gains improvements that will be useful in every game and every fight, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

WIthout the revive, the enemy can simply go ham in him and kill him. There is no "drain tanking raid boss" when your only source of healing is your q. After he has used the 3rd q he has to wait around 3 seconds to do pretty much any sort of real damage. And because his healing is tied to his damage this means that he will die if he gets focused.

Furthermore as a champ that lacks innate armour pen this means that fighting armoured targets is a bad idea since you heal less. Less heal less survivability. You have to hit soft targets in order to heal enough to survive a teamfight where you get somewhat focused at the least. After this change you will get 100% focused and good luck healing off of heavy armoured targets.

The compensation buffs hardly matter. The cd reduction is pretty good. Boring but good. But the hp regen/level is just a joke really. These things cant replace the job the revive had. And frankly, as a melee caster champ he needs something to help him during teamfights. Under normal circumstances his ulti would do just fine but he is a caster. He relies on his q to do basically anything. The moment his q goes down he becomes relatively harmless. He doesnt have atk speed for that juicy 100% ratio aa.

Now i know that you will basically say "well he redirects precious threat away from their carries" which would be nice, if that was his theme. But its not. And, IF they dont change anything and just flatout remove the revive, his ulti will basically become a worse yi ulti. Yi's ulti provides atk speed, movement speed (although less than aatrox's however it doesnt decay) immunity to slows and cripples, ghost AND AND the refresh applies throughout the whole duration unlike aatrox's that it refreshes only 5 second.

As a final note, without the revive, why pick aatrox? If i want resets i can go darius and be even more successful. Plus his healing isnt tied to his damage. Then there is also illaoi that has even more lifesteal (also not tied to her damage) and even more raid boss feel. So why even pick him with all that in mind?

Groove Crusader2 votes

{quoted}

WIthout the revive, the enemy can simply go ham in him and kill him. There is no "drain tanking raid boss" when your only source of healing is your q. After he has used the 3rd q he has to wait around 3 seconds to do pretty much any sort of real damage. And because his healing is tied to his damage this means that he will die if he gets focused.

Furthermore as a champ that lacks innate armour pen this means that fighting armoured targets is a bad idea since you heal less. Less heal less survivability. You have to hit soft targets in order to heal enough to survive a teamfight where you get somewhat focused at the least. After this change you will get 100% focused and good luck healing off of heavy armoured targets.

The compensation buffs hardly matter. The cd reduction is pretty good. Boring but good. But the hp regen/level is just a joke really. These things cant replace the job the revive had. And frankly, as a melee caster champ he needs something to help him during teamfights. Under normal circumstances his ulti would do just fine but he is a caster. He relies on his q to do basically anything. The moment his q goes down he becomes relatively harmless. He doesnt have atk speed for that juicy 100% ratio aa.

Now i know that you will basically say "well he redirects precious threat away from their carries" which would be nice, if that was his theme. But its not. And, IF they dont change anything and just flatout remove the revive, his ulti will basically become a worse yi ulti. Yi's ulti provides atk speed, movement speed (although less than aatrox's however it doesnt decay) immunity to slows and cripples, ghost AND AND the refresh applies throughout the whole duration unlike aatrox's that it refreshes only 5 second.

As a final note, without the revive, why pick aatrox? If i want resets i can go darius and be even more successful. Plus his healing isnt tied to his damage. Then there is also illaoi that has even more lifesteal (also not tied to her damage) and even more raid boss feel. So why even pick him with all that in mind?

Except all that literally doesn't come into play 9 out of 10 times you play Aatrox. His ult resets off of assists and the healing amp with Triumph means that once you start snowballing, the odds of you dying are slim to none.

Or, as I said, the ball doesn't start rolling and you die before you can get the reset anyway.

Nyarlathοtep

[{quoted}](name=Groove Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-11T22:47:11.258+0000)

Except all that literally doesn't come into play 9 out of 10 times you play Aatrox. His ult resets off of assists and the healing amp with Triumph means that once you start snowballing, the odds of you dying are slim to none.

Or, as I said, the ball doesn't start rolling and you die before you can get the reset anyway.

Does it tho? Now i havent really counted but there have been a lot of times where i got the revive just in the nick of the time. And died later xD. But in all seriousness now, having the revive is better than nothing. Unless riot compensates him that way so it replaces it. But we all know riot cant do it. All they can do is screw things even more.

Groove Crusader1 votes

{quoted}

Does it tho? Now i havent really counted but there have been a lot of times where i got the revive just in the nick of the time. And died later xD. But in all seriousness now, having the revive is better than nothing. Unless riot compensates him that way so it replaces it. But we all know riot cant do it. All they can do is screw things even more.

They did compensate him though by amplifying the areas that he already serves well. More healing and a shorter cooldown means his ult will be even more potent in the 90% of times that it functioned without the revive.

Nyarlathοtep

[{quoted}](name=Groove Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T23:18:51.368+0000)

They did compensate him though by amplifying the areas that he already serves well. More healing and a shorter cooldown means his ult will be even more potent in the 90% of times that it functioned without the revive.

No they didnt. 10% and 5% more heal hardly helps. Especially when you consider it during the early with midgame. Early game you dont deal much damage so heal is low. That 10% is wasted. During midgame you deal good damage but 5% is low. The cds reduction as i said in another comment is good, but wont help him during teamfights. He already has it low enough thanks to the resets and his build. Having even less cd will matter close to nothing when you will die in teamfights the moment your q goes on cd (or when you dont have flash because again, more armour less heal aatrox gets).

The23rdGamer1 votes

{quoted}

Does it tho? Now i havent really counted but there have been a lot of times where i got the revive just in the nick of the time. And died later xD. But in all seriousness now, having the revive is better than nothing. Unless riot compensates him that way so it replaces it. But we all know riot cant do it. All they can do is screw things even more.

But they're buffing his healing amp when he's ulted. Is that not compensation?

Nyarlathοtep

{quoted}

But they're buffing his healing amp when he's ulted. Is that not compensation?

They buffing it by 10% at rank 1 and by 5% at rank 2. So instead of healing 140 at rank 1, he will heal 150 (OMG LOOK AT THIS INCREASE OF HP), and at rank 2 instead of healing 150 he will heal 155 (DAMN THIS WILL HELP HIM DURING TEAMFIGHTS).

SgtAwesomeness6 votes

AAtrox was removed on this guy's release

Whyskered Wyrm3 votes

Even when i dodge his sweetspots, he can kill me with autos. What am i missing?

Crescent Dusk6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyskered Wyrm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:14:35.627+0000)

Even when i dodge his sweetspots, he can kill me with autos. What am i missing?

He's a bruiser. Try eating Fiora/Irelia/Jax/Darius/Mordekaiser melee hits.

At least Aatrox gets gutted by grievous wounds.

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

I don't remember Irelia reviving.

CaptainAntiHeroz4 votes

{quoted}

I don't remember Irelia reviving.

item 3026 item 3053 ???

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Wow, that's a nice item anyone can buy and not an intrinsic ability they have within their kit for 'free' cause powerbudget, but still

CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-12T06:47:29.719+0000)

Wow, that's a nice item anyone can buy and not an intrinsic ability they have within their kit for 'free' cause powerbudget, but still

Revive the summoner spell

There ya go it was a thing therefore it once was possible "for free"

Plus aatrox without revive isn't aatrox

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

There ya go it was a thing therefore it once was possible "for free"

Is this supposed to be an actual point? Cause it isn't. We're talking bout the present here. Not the past.

CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-12T08:13:29.575+0000)

Is this supposed to be an actual point? Cause it isn't. We're talking bout the present here. Not the past.

Post I responded to said 'I don't remember irelia reviving' I'm sorry you didn't read that but that's what I'm responding to. No it wasn't in her kit but that's not what was said so yes it's an actual point. Do you have an actual point here?

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Holy crap man, you're missing the entirety of what the guy is saying. Irelia as a champion, does not revive. The post we're currently in, is talking about Revival in a champion's kit. In no way or fashion, is an item, or summoner spell removed years ago, is going to factor in to what a champion has, a Bruiser in this case, has in their kit. The comment you responded to, was responding to another comment that is entirely about, the difference between Aatrox and other bruisers, which itself, is responding to someone complaining about how he can miss all his abilities and still kill them.

AKA all Bruiser's autos hurt, at least Aatrox is fucked by GW. Who you replied to, was saying "I dont remember Irelia having a revive" pointing out that difference between Irelia (though technically applicable to all those bruisers) and Aatrox's kit. In no way, form or fashion, does pointing out that "well TECHNICALLY" Irelia could revive using an alternate source than their own natural kit, isn't at all what the conversation is about.

It's about Champions kits, literally. Macne is using the comparison that Irelia doesn't have a revive in their kit, as to why Aatrox maybe shouldn't have as much power in his auto's as he does. That's an assumption of his point, but that's how it reads to me. Using a more than 5 year old dead summoner spell, isn't at all applicable to the conversation, especially since that was only around during old Irelia.

Crescent Dusk2 votes

{quoted}

I don't remember Irelia reviving.

Because Irelia halves her damage intake with W, has a ranged stun, crazy mobility and easy lane sustain via Q while being one of the best backline divers in the game.

Whyskered Wyrm4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:17:00.847+0000)

He's a bruiser. Try eating Fiora/Irelia/Jax/Darius/Mordekaiser melee hits.

At least Aatrox gets gutted by grievous wounds.

So in short, just not fun to play against? All of those champions you've mentioned are really unfun to play against. I almost never win against them unless they don't know what they are doing. I've gotten so used to hard snowballing or failing in top lane every game. UnFun.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyskered Wyrm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:28:40.632+0000)

So in short, just not fun to play against? All of those champions you've mentioned are really unfun to play against. I almost never win against them unless they don't know what they are doing. I've gotten so used to hard snowballing or failing in top lane every game. UnFun.

Top lane will always be a stat check if a champion doesn't have crazy defensive and mobility skills to compensate like Akali.

It's simply the nature of melee vs. melee.

It's sort of how Annie feels against 95% of mid laners, because their stat check on her is their range and she can't do anything to keep from getting poked out of lane and shoved in based on her starting kit.

ZeroAgainst3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyskered Wyrm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:14:35.627+0000)

Even when i dodge his sweetspots, he can kill me with autos. What am i missing?

you must be really god awful at LoL then or hes fed out of his mind and your not a trox autoing you to death should never happen unless your playing something squish like sona and staying in his melee range and try taking an auto from any other bruiser like trynd hell even a mundo autos harder then aatrox.

Darkdemon6533 votes

{quoted}

The healing is what makes him mainly survive, not his revive

I'm pretty sure that's the point of the change. I'm pretty sure they want to get rid of the extra reward for getting a kill rather than diminish his ability to get the kill.

Jaspers1 votes

Think most people would prefer it the other way around. His damage allows him to get the kill, like it always did. Hit abilities, stack the passive, his revive is the reward. The healing is just too much now, used to be every 3rd auto, now it's every thing he does and the revive wasn't any skill of landing abilities, it went from a press of a button to getting a takedown (so an assist would do) during the ult to now being removed. Yet we all hate his healing.

Remove his healing from E and R. Give him back his revive as part of his passive.

CaptainAntiHeroz2 votes

No revive on aatrox = not aatrox NEW CHAMPIONS HERE ALREADY?!

Gear5Luffy2 votes

They have been doing pretty bad job recently look at Sylas as well removing shield on E1 and then at E2 adn then E 1 again in the pbe changing champs every patch because they cant plan ahead same think with Aatrox remove revive remove heal add heal add E stack again remove E stack inconsistent decision making idk how they get away with keeping their jobs like this its a joke

Troll for Trump1 votes

Revive basically means lategame he can kamikaze 1v5 and do as much as possible while his team cleans up afterewrds. It makes him a much lower risk teamfighter than other bruisers, all while having a good/safe early game. Revive gets more abusive the higher up you go.

DUDE BRO1 votes

Zilean (an arguable weak support champ) has a revive that lasts 3 seconds, it needs to be timed well.

Aatrox, a very powerful tanky CC bruiser who steals tons of life and is difficult to kill has a revive on ~10 seconds that can be extended indefinitely if he's getting kills.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

The thing that annoys me most about the removal of the Revive is that at that point there will be nothing, quite literally nothing that resembles what Aatrox was. They are essentially removing his most important key factor of his character, immortality. Sure he can outsustain potential damage that is thrown at him but that's not immortality that's survivability.

MrGerund1 votes

i often see in teamfights, whenever the aatrox ults and gets a takedown, the whole teamfight quickly falls apart and aatrox starts chasing because killing him would get the rest of his team on top of you + he'd still live.

yes it is part of what makes aatrox simply... aatrox... but its a problem in teamfights. well, or riot just takes out the dumb movement speed reset, but that'd lower kill potential and we're talking about riot here so erm... gl with getting them to be more reasonable with his ult.

1 Wing1 votes

Me in every game: "Hold on, is Aatrox's revive down: get him!"

This is what Aatrox does: he revives after he dies. That's his thing. . . that's what he does. Yah, and he also has a sweet sword. He's not really that strong. . That's Aatrox: using a super sword, and coming back from death, because he just wasn't that strong. He's a demon.

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