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Is there a point in the game where Lucian isn't strong?

Mohr Beaches··3 votes·1,726 views

Honestly, this guy does so well from start to finish. I'm not sure if its his scaling or his stats but I almost always lose to this guy.

For someone with AD abilities and an AP ability he does very well.. Ez or graves can't compete nearly at the level Lucian can at all levels of the game because they all suffer some form of weakness, particularly late game..

I suggest we make him statisically and scaling at similar levels as ez and graves, that or buff them to Lucians standard.

History repeats itself and I bet Riot is already looking into a nerf for him.

So do we nerf him or buff the rest of the adcs?

20 Comments

Anbaric8 votes

When he's dead?

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Pretty hard to kill him since he dominates just about every match up in lane phase..

Not saying he is invincible, however compared to other ADCs he is clearly stronger.

Have you played against a raka+lucian bot lane? Fucking impossible to kill either of them.. Really any support goes well with him. However with other ADCs you have to "work" a bit more to achieve the same success as Lucian.

Hayaishi3 votes

I'm sick of him, Auto wins lane against 90% of the ADC roster, his mid game is completely overpowered if he wins lane, and late game he is still killing.

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Yea even when I can get my hands on tristana, late game he can still compete at the level I do (kinda).

Ez or graves can't compete nearly at the level Lucian can at all levels of the game.

Something needs to be fixed.

Best KhaZix Void2 votes

When I play him he isn't strong.

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Then your doing something wrong, because at higher elo he ***very ***strong.

NoMonku2 votes

His "weakest" point is late game. He is technically almost in the same place he was before his nerf, just with slightly less AA range. This range difference, while technically able to be exploited at extremely high levels of play, is almost negligible for everyone else. His only "weakness" really is his early levels when champs with insane level ones (Draven and maybe MF) can beat him if he fought them for some reason and super late game champions like Trist/Kog/Twitch can outrange him and blow him up before he can get in range. The other two burst ADC's, Graves and Corki have a slight chance if they go even, but if you miss a spell, Lucian will most likely win the trade.

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Yea well that is why he is popular and strong.

I've played everyone of those champs and with him alone it isn't to much of a problem, but with the support it makes it damn near impossible to farm or counter him.

Literally every support he has goes so well with him.

He is like graves & ez combined together in lane phase.. kinda.

Quepha1 votes

typo in the title?

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Yes thank you, long day today haha.

Omnipherious1 votes

Make targeted changes to him and everybody else.

Personally, I think Lucian should have his point-and-click Q removed and replaced with a skillshot piercing Q instead. One of the big problems a lot of carries have versus him is the fact that you have to account for both (a) a double auto from his passive and (b) the outright burst from Q. I believe making the Q a skillshot would make him much less annoying for many without taking away his overall identity.

Besides that, I think other carries need to have a more pronounced strengths like Ashe being the #1 kite-flier and Vayne being #2 pentakill montage poster girl after Katarina.

Let's take Graves as an example. I would rather his Q deal damage to a target multiplied per bullet instead of a just % increase. This matches the whole shotgun theme he's meant to have going on. Hell, Explosive Shot should deal double damage to some motherfucker if you hit them point-blank.

Riot has said before that every champion should have a moment/situation/scenario where they feel absolutely OP because the stars are fucking aligned and it's their moment to shine.

If you wanna talk burst, Jinx is just as good and has more range, Corki can burst you and still poke after while dealing true damage each hit.

If you wanna talk utility, Lucian's dash is better and he doesn't even need AS because of his passive, Vayne has true damage + hard CC + AD steroid w/ stealth, Kog can shred HP, Trist has healing reduct + reposition + self-peel.

Acolarh1 votes

Make targeted changes to him and everybody else.

Personally, I think Lucian should have his point-and-click Q removed and replaced with a skillshot piercing Q instead. One of the big problems a lot of carries have versus him is the fact that you have to account for both (a) a double auto from his passive and (b) the outright burst from Q. I believe making the Q a skillshot would make him much less annoying for many without taking away his overall identity.

Besides that, I think other carries need to have a more pronounced strengths like Ashe being the #1 kite-flier and Vayne being #2 pentakill montage poster girl after Katarina.

I agree with all of this. Spot on (I think you're right in the rest of your post as well, though it's not really about lucian).

Orbv1 votes

Though that would help generally, you miss the fact that his q range isn't that far unless it hits something else first. By making it a skillshot you need to program the extension to happen the exact same time as the initial range, that's not easy and will cause glitching. And Riot will most likely turn that into a range increase for successfully landing it =/

MasticatingGrill1 votes

I think his mana costs were reduced a fraction too much when they fixed his banana addiction.

His ult is really garbage unless the team sets him up for it. His ult also reinforces the somewhat racist concept behind him anyway.

That double shot tho. Parts of the champ are excellent.

Kharn Skyshatter2 votes

Actually I feel his double shot having 0 cooldown is part of the problem with his kit.

MasticatingGrill1 votes

Actually I feel his double shot having 0 cooldown is part of the problem with his kit.

Well yes, if a player is sufficiently capable his passive overcompensates the rest of his kit.

But I do still feel that his active kit is being compensated for with that passive.

As to the bit about counters regarding Vayne, I have seen planty of Vayne in Plat + that snowballs hard against everyone except Lucian. Wombo off support and again exploiting dodge. Blitzgrab, dash, condemn into turret etc. Like blitzgrab and Jinx E also. Vayne vs Lucian seems quite tense and relies on ouside help to determine who will snowball at bot.

Maybe they could touch-up his ult and put a small cooldown on his passive to level him out. I still think the mana costs dropped too much. There are so many counters for the whole "AAAHHH BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM" thing that I pretty much ignore whether his ult is up...

67chrome1 votes

Honestly, this guy does so well from start to finish. I'm not sure if its his scaling or his stats but I almost always lose to this guy.

I doubt it's either. "stats" are pretty uniform across champions and don't have much variation outside of AA range. His scalings also mostly suck, seeing as he's strong early weak late.

What Lucian does have going for him is mostly being an embodiment of Trinity Force. He doesn't excel at any particular thing, but he can do everything well enough. Well enough it really limits the weaknesses you can play around or exploit, as doing a thing ~10% worse than you is basically his only weakness. Where he's got capabilities you don't even have, allowing him to do that thing 100% better.

So do we nerf him or buff the rest of the adcs?

His "can jump over walls, has a negligible cooldown, and removes slows" ability having a mana cost of 0 could be something to look at for nerfs.

Kassadin's ult on a longer cooldown seems like the exact opposite of something that should be manaless. Or anything remotely close to mimicking DotA item actives (most of which actually cost mana in DotA). You've got immune to all abilities for 105 seconds, turns invisible for 15 seconds, and Flash on a 12 second cooldown (which gets silenced for 3 seconds when you attack/get attacked) as some DotA active examples.

And we've got Lucian, with flash on a 12 second cooldown, and -4 seconds if he procs his passive on champions each time he procs it on champions. And that costs him 0 mana.

ChimeiTekinaNasu1 votes

"and removes slows". You don't read patch notes or when he's nerfed, do you???? He can't remove slows anymore. That was taken away from him forever ago. Like, way long ago. When they did that, is when they made him able to infinitely dash forever.

xFi0ramaster181 votes

In patch 4.18, he should be getting mana cost nerf to E (getting 40 mana a rank 1, scaling to zero at rank 5.) This should REALLY help Lucian's from being over aggressive in lane because they have a free escape. It will also make it easier to kill a Low mana Lucian, because they won't have an ability always up like they do now.

Mohr Beaches1 votes

Well that may help, its his passive that really destroys. Q+passive then dash + passive in lane is 4 AA + your ad ability and any additional damage done by his support.

Like the famous combo I always see in lane is the dash into his front wave of cs + passive on you followed by his q then passive.

All for like 300 damage.

God bless if you play vayne or graves because your never going to farm since he can harass you in his own wave with some serious damage or for that matter give him first blood because there is zero I mean ZERO counter play once that first blood is given up, or pushed out of lane so he is up +30 cs.

Raka+lucian is just gross. Especially this new raka release pokes all day long with virtually no counter play.

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