There are balanced champions with a healthy kit

Stiv1234·Jan 3, 2016·4 votes·485 views

There are OP champions with a healthy kit. There are balanced champions with overloaded kits. And then theres Thresh.

11 Comments

HaiLnKillJan 3, 201610 votes

i personally think he is balanced with overloaded kit.

Slamurai JackJan 3, 20161 votes

Thresh is an underpowered champion with an overloaded kit.

SH AzykanJan 3, 20161 votes

poppy got reworked...so maybe urgot? Long range targeted poke after landing a fairly easy skill shot. Decent shield that scales off his mana. A Suppression which is one of the strongest cc's in game (only knockups beat it because they cant be QSS'd) Damage reduction and slows on hit...all on an ADC...wow his kit would be so toxic if he had numbers to back it up XD

unless you were saying thresh is underpowered...in which case no his numbers are perfectly fine for ALL his utility he brings

Slamurai JackJan 3, 20161 votes

That is what I was saying. He's an underpowered champion with an overloaded kit. The average Thresh player in Plat+ has 146 games (most of all real supports) and his winrate is still only 48% overall. Threshes with 125+ games still can't even manage to win half their games. That is the best sign you can possibly have of an underpowered champion: even with an extremely experienced playerbase, he still struggles to win games and even the most dedicated Thresh players would be better off playing stronger, easier supports like Blitzcrank and Nautilus. You can't just handwave away his performance with "noob threshes bring him down" because Thresh players are statistically the most dedicated support players, with the obvious exception of those Fiddles support weirdos.

The Yetii RiderJan 3, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaKbqXog,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-03T15:31:43.412+0000)

An underpowered champion with an overloaded kit?

Thresh isn't underpowered. Several reasons that have nothing to do with balance contribute to his low win rate.

Thresh has an extremely high pick rate because his satisfaction output is so high. When you save someone with a lantern, hook someone under a tower, or pull your jungler over the wall for a surprise gank you feel extremely satisfied. These are all unique, visible circumstances Thresh players work to achieve.

And what happens if you play bad? Maybe you're too passive, you miss one too many hooks, you Flay the wrong way. Whatever.

Thresh is so tanky and he has so much peel that even if he dies, his carry will still likely get away. Therefore, the Thresh player doesn't feel punished, he doesn't feel a low because he feels like he's done his job. If the ADC still dies, it honestly IS likely that they didn't listen to pings or stayed and fought for too long, so the Thresh player can safely blame them for the loss.

See the issue? Bad Thresh players don't feel like they've lost even when they play badly, so they never STOP playing him. His satisfaction to punishment ratio is too uneven, same as Lee Sin's.

The other factor that contributes to Thresh's low win rate is that his pick rate has been so high for so long that other players just have mastered how to deal with him. Supports that Thresh does really well against have flat out fallen out of favor, making every match he plays a skill match up or an unfavored match up, and both the ADC and the support, and even the rest of the team have faced Thesh so much that they are just able to play around him.

That's why Thresh has a low win rate. It has nothing to do with his power.

MisterHealYoGirlJan 3, 20161 votes

Cassiopeia. Her Q is a DoT and a speed steroid, her W is an expanding DoT, a reveal, and a slow. Her E is a targeted nuke, a self-heal, a mana steroid on-execute, and a DoT damage amp, and her ult is a conditional stun/slow depending on facing. Despite this complexity, she's been nerfed to the darkest bowels of elo hell, and is generally considered to be really weak.

Slamurai JackJan 3, 20162 votes

Which is why calling a kit overloaded doesn't fucking mean anything. Karma is "overloaded" too but I don't think you'll find anyone willing to argue that she's OP.

MisterHealYoGirlJan 3, 20161 votes

Jeez, calm down. I thought that your original post (which may have been edited since? I may also just have been tired) was asking for examples of underpowered champions with overloaded kits.

Slamurai JackJan 3, 20161 votes

It was edited because people kept misunderstanding it. And I am calm, just annoyed. People on these boards love the term "overloaded" as that on it's own means anything. Not all kits are designed to be equally versatile; welcome to good game design.

MisterHealYoGirlJan 4, 20161 votes

Again, I'm not taking a stance on this debate or looking to participate in it. I thought you had a question, and I was attempting to answer it. That's all.

TurquoiseYoshiJan 3, 20161 votes

Yorick , old Poppy , Akali (?), Kalista , and basically every other champion that sits around waiting for a rework because a newbie/idiot designed their kit.