Zhyonia's good for the health of the game?

Jamnon·Oct 30, 2014·1 votes·747 views

#Thoughts?

What would a world be like if suddenly there were an AD version? Assassins/carries everywhere would pick it up.

What would the world be like with no Zhyonia's effect?

14 Comments

xDingwithsaladOct 30, 20144 votes

It's interesting you ask such a question, but give no reasons as to why you ask such a question.

Great post, btw

JamnonOct 30, 20141 votes

Majored in philosophy, what can I say?

Wanted to see where the community stood on it. It certainly is powerful, that much is undebated. It's fun to use well.

But how does it affect the health of the game itself and the choices made in fights?

OleandervineOct 30, 20144 votes

There'd be wayyyyy more dead Katarina's if Zhonya's didn't exist...

JamnonOct 30, 20141 votes

Say that like it's a bad thing.

I feel like it should be more risk for an assassin to commit to a target.

DrCyanideOct 30, 20144 votes

The closest item to an AD item 3157 is the item 3139 .

Both give maximum offensive stats in their tech tree
Both give defense against other type of stat
Both give you an active that lets you get out of tricky situations

The two are not identical, but item 3139 is by no means bad. The question I have is why don't AD champions pick it up more? The enemy team most likely has a stun/slow/suppress/hook that this could save you from. Everyone always talks about wanting an AD Zhonya's, but no one picks the closest equivalent.

JamnonOct 30, 20141 votes

The closest item to an AD is the .

Both give maximum offensive stats in their tech tree

Both give defense against other type of stat

Both give you an active that lets you get out of tricky situations

The two are not identical, but is by no means bad. The question I have is why don't AD champions pick it up more? The enemy team most likely has a stun/slow/suppress/hook that this could save you from. Everyone always talks about wanting an AD Zhonya's, but no one picks the closest equivalent.

An interesting discussion! Supports, for example, max out CD, etc.

Leblancs BoobOct 30, 20144 votes

Immobile mages may as well be fish food without it

JamnonOct 31, 20141 votes

I agree, this is a problem. But is Zhonia's the best way to solve it?

Do we want more interest in items or have one slot be pidgeon-holded into something?

Theoretically, if this effect (in all its incarnations) didn't exist, power could be shifted to the KITS rather than relying on an item...? Does that make sense? Idk, thoughts?

HayaishiOct 30, 20142 votes

A better world indeed.

LlaniteOct 30, 20142 votes

Geez, then we need AP Hexdrinker .

JamnonOct 30, 20141 votes

Geez, then we need AP Hexdrinker .

Hexdrinker is similar to a Zhonias effect. As is guardian angel. Do you think these effects are healthy, and why?

RadiantWingsOct 30, 20142 votes

Merc scim doesn't block damage. That's all there is to it.

Meanwhile, Zhonya's can dodge CC and dodge damage while stalling for cooldowns as an AP. It's why Fizz is so annoying with it. Zhonya's is versatile and has amazing synergy with its class. Merc Scim is good, but isn't going to tank that Syndra ult for you.

Also, as a bonus, Merc scim doesn't work when you're chain stunned, but because of the end CC action bug, you can end up using Zhonya's while being chain-stunned.

Zhonya's could use a duration reduction, placing most of the focus on blocking those assassins spells that are actually balanced around it (Zed.) It's healthy in that way, but the cooldown abuse makes it cancer with high mobility types like Fizz.

DrCyanideOct 31, 20142 votes

Merc scim doesn't block damage. That's all there is to it.

Meanwhile, Zhonya's can dodge CC and dodge damage while stalling for cooldowns as an AP. It's why Fizz is so annoying with it. Zhonya's is versatile and has amazing synergy with its class. Merc Scim is good, but isn't going to tank that Syndra ult for you.

Actually, with the +45 MR, it will tank a decent chunk of that Syndra ult. It doesn't let you completely avoid the damage unless the attack is something super specific, like Fizz's Ult. The advantage it has over Zhonya's is you aren't CCing yourself.

Also, as a bonus, Merc scim doesn't work when you're chain stunned, but because of the end CC action bug, you can end up using Zhonya's while being chain-stunned.

Zhonya's could use a duration reduction, placing most of the focus on blocking those assassins spells that are actually balanced around it (Zed.) It's healthy in that way, but the cooldown abuse makes it cancer with high mobility types like Fizz.

There was a discussion on this, and a Red pointed out that reducing the duration on Zhonya's would actually make it more op, not less op. You see, by using Zhonya's you force yourself to be CCed. This gives the opposing team time to get in a position to kill you for that reckless dive you just made. By making the duration shorter, your opponents have less time to take advantage of your CC.

Very valid points on the chain CC though.

JamnonOct 31, 20141 votes

There is a difference between midigation and utter avoidance, tho. It is true you disadvantage yourself with the self-CC however, an excellent point.

If I ULT someone with max balls on the ground as Syndra... only for them to Zhonya's... now that CAN'T be fun for the enemy Syndra. I feel like this effect goes against Riot's point (cant remember where) of: "shouldnt detract from the fun of the opposing player disproportionately [to such a large degree]."