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IDEA FOR RUNE CHANGES TO HELP TANKS

MrFawknSunshine··4 votes·2,680 views

i dont think its an item situation.

its a rune situation that hurts tanks.

If you take resolve with out inspiration you get 15 hp at lvl 1 which is crap. you dont get any meaningful runes that help before 10 mins. conditioning does nothing in lane phase.

to fix tanks i believe resolve tree needs to be looked at. I purpose a conditional stat change. If you take RESOLVE PRIMARY ( which most tanks do ) you get more hp early lvls and scales worst later. and conditioning rune comes on line sooner. currently its +8armor/mr at 10 mins +5% bonus. For conditioning I purpose that you get +5armor/mr at lvl 1 and at 10 mins its plus 8% armor/mr. to achieve this i would be 100% fine taking away adaptive stat you get when you take any other tree besides INSPIRATION which is usually adaptive AD, AP or AS. Also tanks are a big user/need of CDR which you cant access til 10 mins under transcendence. If you take inspiration you get 5% cdr but Inspiration lacks any useful keystone for tanks and majority of the runes in that tree are MEH for tanks to begin with.

for an example lets use Darius vs Maokai match up with base stats at lvl 1 Darius base HP is 582 with 64 AD 39 AR 32 MR 340MS Maokai base HP is 565 with 64 AD 39 AR 32 MR 335MS

we can see with out runes Darius is tankier then maokai who is suppose to be a tank. and nearly every one would agree maokai has no chance to win lane or trades at all unless the darius is monkey. in the old rune system you could have a page set up to give you enough stats to sustain the lane phase as bad as it was to transition to mid game and be effective. now it really punishes tanks in lane cuz they arent any more tankier then the bruisers/fighters they face and unlike the bruiser/fighter they dont get to stack damage to be more of a threat. so the tank comes out of lane phase really behind and dont get to their mid game 2 item power spike til later then before which is bad considering how much faster the game is now.

this is going to reward tanks for building tanky. with out giving them damage.

but maybe the IDEA OF CONDITIONAL STATS based on taking a Rune Tree Primary might be a good tweak to the runes to make them seem more unique that could be more explored with all the trees.

38 Comments

GreenEmionLion1 votes

I agree the resolve tree is underwhelming while in midst of so much damage based runes. Perhaps a way to buff Resolve tree is to increase armor and health percentage for late game. Example have Conditioning scale with game duration similar to Gathering storm.

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

{quoted}

I agree the resolve tree is underwhelming while in midst of so much damage based runes. Perhaps a way to buff Resolve tree is to increase armor and health percentage for late game. Example have Conditioning scale with game duration similar to Gathering storm.

well that isnt a bad idea but we fall in to the trap of not having stats til 10 mins like gathering storm does.

GreenEmionLion1 votes

Good point, yet there still can be buffs to bone plating too to help increase damage reduction early game, while late game will have scaling potential as well. How about that?

AlienPrimate2 votes

I think a better way to buff resolve is to nerf everything else.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

I think a better way to buff resolve is to nerf everything else.

nerfing everthing else wouldnt make tanks stronger. they are still being out classed in lane by bruiser/fighters/juggernauts

rewarding tanks for being TANKY is the idea here

Automated Riven1 votes

Part of the problems tanks face is that other runes have too much damage.

Nerfing those would help. Maybe not enough, but it would a little.

VermillionWolf1 votes

I want a rune that works like Nautilus's passive, I think a keystone that works something like 'if you hit a champion, they are grounded for 1 second (scaling to 2 maybe)' to help immobile tanks catch mobile champs.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

I want a rune that works like Nautilus's passive, I think a keystone that works something like 'if you hit a champion, they are grounded for 1 second (scaling to 2 maybe)' to help immobile tanks catch mobile champs.

glacial augment kind does this it slows on basic attacks

VermillionWolf2 votes

WHat does a slow do vs Talon Zed Yasuo Akali Fizz ? The list can go on

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

WHat does a slow do vs Talon Zed Yasuo Akali Fizz ? The list can go on

well then what good is nauts passive when he has to auto one of them any good? they are hyper mobile.

Automated Riven1 votes

That's just going to be abused by assassin's. The adc can now no longer use flash when the assassin's attacks.

Pika Fox1 votes

Tanks are already pretty much fine as-is. At best they just need jungle clear help.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-07T17:12:24.742+0000)

Tanks are already pretty much fine as-is. At best they just need jungle clear help.

but they arent. if they were you would see them played more. the 2 worst classes in the game right now are tanks and crit marksmen.

tanks have zero ability to survive lane vs bruiser/fighters they play passive as fuk and hope they arent dove and arent to abuse/behind

Pika Fox1 votes

Tanks are also played support and jungle. And they can play perfectly fine top, they just cant sit in lane and take 0 damage for free now.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T17:28:18.217+0000)

Tanks are also played support and jungle. And they can play perfectly fine top, they just cant sit in lane and take 0 damage for free now.

im gonna go and look at tanks in top , jungle and support and see how many are in top ten...

top no tanks in top 10 at #12 we have sion but he is being build ad/leathality at # 14 we have malphite

jungle no tanks in top 10 at #14 we have rammus now we have trundle above that at 8 and he goes cinderhulk but he isnt a tank and then at #7 is warwick, not a tank.

support #6 alistar #7 taric #12 leona. blitz is #3 however he isnt a tank he is a fighter.

so top 10 in the 3 roles tanks are played we have 2 being alistar and taric

i think it might be an issue of tanks not really being viable.

Bobloser35551 votes

So you dont consider Garen a tank? Because I think he is one of the most tanky champs and one of the top in winrate.

Pika Fox1 votes

Garens a jugg, not really a "tank". Its kinda a mix of tank and fighter.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

So you dont consider Garen a tank? Because I think he is one of the most tanky champs and one of the top in winrate.

GAREN ISNT A TANK , just cuz he is tanky dont mean he is a tank. he is a juggernaut, a tanky fighter. he has tank stats but has damage in nearly all his abilties. Q E R he is meant to do damage. he dont have engage, cc, etc , mobility.

maokai is a tank, poppy, sion, malphite, alistar, taric, leona, braum, rammus, sej etc.

Bobloser35551 votes

but he is tanky as fuck therefore for me he feels like a tank except no cc

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

but he is tanky as fuck therefore for me he feels like a tank except no cc

ok BUT HE ISNT A TANK , just like MUNDO, Nasus, Darius arent tanks they are juggernauts

Pika Fox1 votes

Not being top 10 doesnt mean its not viable. All champions in the game are viable, theyre just not dominant.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-07T18:53:48.440+0000)

Not being top 10 doesnt mean its not viable. All champions in the game are viable, theyre just not dominant.

it means they are clearly out classed. and why is that? its a damage, brusier ignite meta. where damage amplification from runes start at lvl 1 where as tank runes from resolve are clearly out classed.

i mean shit. i faced a wukong in top lane just to try it out i went maokai primary with conqueror and went ad bruiser build iceborn, steraks , GA i was better off trading in lane with a troll set up on a tank then going resolve primary.

i have also seen ornn going conqueror top. sion going full ad/leathilty . if tanks are more viable going damage runes/builds then there is an issue with the tank runes we have

Pika Fox1 votes

Sions not a tank, so using him as an example isnt the best of choices. And tank runes are fine. An on demand 100+ resists? Bone plating? Those are massive.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T19:07:48.877+0000)

Sions not a tank, so using him as an example isnt the best of choices. And tank runes are fine. An on demand 100+ resists? Bone plating? Those are massive.

bone plating is a joke unless vs dps. and even then once they proc it they back of til its on cooldown.

it dont give you any actual tank stats for the game.

Pika Fox1 votes

Its hands down one of the most powerful non keystones in the game...

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

ok so lets say we have a mirror match up of Darius vs Darius.

one takes primary resolve tree and the other goes conqueror for keystone

who wins?

DARIUS WITH CONQUEROR

Pika Fox1 votes

You mean to say a champion with 0 defensive scaling doesnt get much use out of a defensive rune, but gets more use from an offensive one they scale with? You dont say?

Edit: i read that as draven. Darius is a champion that wants to fight, and would either pick conq or grasp. Darius vs darius, grasp would likely win. The extra damage doesnt do a lot against another darius, ittd just be stack to 5 then R.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=000200000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-07T19:24:57.643+0000)

You mean to say a champion with 0 defensive scaling doesnt get much use out of a defensive rune, but gets more use from an offensive one they scale with? You dont say?

yet in the example in the OP of darius vs maokai darius has as much armor and mr as maokai does and more base hp. and darius still builds into defensive/tank items. he doesnt build glass cannon full damage.

Pika Fox1 votes

I edited my comment because i misread darius as draven.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AIGH4Ez8,comment-id=000200000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-07T19:24:57.643+0000)

You mean to say a champion with 0 defensive scaling doesnt get much use out of a defensive rune, but gets more use from an offensive one they scale with? You dont say?

Edit: i read that as draven. Darius is a champion that wants to fight, and would either pick conq or grasp. Darius vs darius, grasp would likely win. The extra damage doesnt do a lot against another darius, ittd just be stack to 5 then R.

grasp doesnt increase his AD or true damage ... which stacks on his passive, and abilities.

the conqueror darius will win. based on being able to have more ad and true damage. grasp does "magic " damage based on his max hp. we already know that going primary resolve only gives 15 hp at lvl 1 . so that isnt going to be enough hp to make a difference

Pika Fox1 votes

Thing is darius v darius, darius doesnt need extra AD. If the fight goes to 5 stacks, whoever got the 5 first wins. If the fight doesnt go to 5, grasp wins.

Darius doesnt go conq for mirror matchups. Conq wins out largely against tankier champs who dont have the innate healing darius has and to help ensure non 5 stack ult on a squishy kills sooner. Also enforces his early game dominance.

None of this really applies in a darius mirror match.

Bobloser35551 votes

Sry but if you have Maokai vs Darius you are fucked, doesn't matter what runes you have, all you can hope is not to die while not falling too far behind in farm.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

Sry but if you have Maokai vs Darius you are fucked, doesn't matter what runes you have, all you can hope is not to die while not falling too far behind in farm.

and i even said that.

it was an example of how darius has as much tank stats as maokai does lvl 1

thats part of the issue. if darius with conqueror and his damage out put is as tanky as maokai while maokai has to take full resolve runes that is an issue, maokai cant even stay in lane vs that.

this is an issue with tanks being behind and bullied in lane with no def stats til 10 mins in game. we all know lane and sometimes the game it self is already decided by then.

im not asking to buff tanks damage at all. by any numbers, not asking for ap ratios or anything, im asking that make it a conditional stat if you take RESOLVE PRIMARY you have access to armor/mr and a lil more hp at early lvls

Akiliieeii1 votes

In my opinion if we start thinking about ways to improve tanks the meta will start to favour tanks again and it will be a tank meta again... And we all know what will happen next...

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

well riot is already individually buffing tanks in next patch. knowing they are weak.

im not asking for any individual champ to be buffed, buff to items or anything of that nature. im not asking for tanks to get damage. im even advocating that you take away the adaptive damage stats you get by going resolve ( 10 ap, attack speed or ad it gives) to allow tanks to access meaningful tank stats to allow them to be tanks earlier in game. and make it conditional that you get it based on taking primary resolve. if you take it secondary the stats stay as is. so you cant get damage /utility and tankyness.

it would still allow brusiers/juggernauts etc to get resolve secondary and get some durability in game and if they go primary resolve they lose on damage.

it would allow tanks to be that , tanks, reward them for building tank and playing as such

Akiliieeii1 votes

Well tanks don't even benefit from those stats ( ad or ap adaptive ) that only helps their lanning phase... So if you create a rune that helps them or change the way their adaptivity works it could make them strong, they have pretty strong runes as it is so there's no need for them to get more... In my opinion adc's are lacking damage ( excluding Jhin and Kaisa they're strong as it is ) they should just nerf dmg overall from bruisers and fighters.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

{quoted}

Well tanks don't even benefit from those stats ( ad or ap adaptive ) that only helps their lanning phase... So if you create a rune that helps them or change the way their adaptivity works it could make them strong, they have pretty strong runes as it is so there's no need for them to get more... In my opinion adc's are lacking damage ( excluding Jhin and Kaisa they're strong as it is ) they should just nerf dmg overall from bruisers and fighters.

tanks dont have strong runes. all of the tank runes come on line after laning phase as my OP states. all damage runes are front loaded from early levels. crit based adcs are bad due to crit changes. they should be coming back on line after some of the cost reduction of crit items and electrocute gets nerfed lowering the burst from fighters and assassins.

how is getting 8 armor or 8 mr after 10 mins strong or 15 hp at lvl 1 and only 135hp at lvl 18? no access to CDR til 10 mins

all im purposing if you take RESOLVE PRIMARY you get access to more HP early and have it scale worst late. and to have conditioning come on line sooner so you can use the stats during laning phase. going from 8 armor /mr at 10 mins +5% bonus to 5armor/mr at lvl 1 or even 5 mins and then + 10% bonus.

even the overgrowth rune is trash. in a 30 min game (if it last that long) you might get 150-200 hp. which is the same as a item 1028 ( 400 gold )

there is many times in lane i have less hp then the champ im facing at lvl 1 and the same armor /mr as a tank taking resolve while they have more damage out put.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

OuR dESiGn PhIlOsOpHy StAtEs ThAt OfFeNsE OuTsCaLeS DeFeNsE

-Makes resolve only good late game.

(Boneplate aint enough to make this tree anygood earlygame)

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