Was this what Riot wanted for jungle

Yekler·12/24/2014, 5:14:19 AM·0 votes·853 views
I by far am no expert but  without ever testing what would happen if they Just made one change like remove the abuse of feral flare and let the jungle position thrive, it seems now to be a punishment instead.It is impossible to keep up LVL wise and gold wise in jungle on average sure the one super meta fit of the month might become even gold and lvl wise on a poor team but not most of the time.The days of even dreaming to carry from it are long gone.

I really wish to hear others overall thoughts from experienced jungle mains on if you feel like a crosswalk guard in comparison with non feral flare using types and pre quill coat days.

Ie. if they had left it all alone and feral flare abuse never existed was it more viable to more champs to actually have impact on games in a balanced way than it is now. I cant help gut feel like fifth wheel when on first trip i farm till three get in two kills back and buy cover steal a buff then look at team mates all got a lvl or even two on me on a champ considered a fast clear pretty sad to me.

26 Comments

TehNACHO12/24/2014, 5:32:40 AM1 votes

I like it.

It's not season 4 where plainly anyone can jungle, but because of how our Jungle items designed, there are literally only 3 or 4 top Jungle picks at a time. The system built in place can, in theory, host up to 16 viable Junglers who all abuse their respective item combo well. While I'm sure it will never actually get to that point, just the promise that it could happen is enough to keep me more than interested in competitive Jungling.

Furthermore, it actually goes out of its way to define who are actual Junglers and who are not. As a reminder, it's still the pre-season, so a lot of necessary balance and tuning checks have either been overlooked or plainly not been made yet, but it's very clear that the champions who can either take care of themselves in the Jungle or are super strong at taking advantage of opportunities are very well fit for the new Jungle. In other words, once again unlike Season 4 where anyone can jungle, there is a very clear pool of champions who are designed for the Jungle. This also means, for the game's long term balance, Riot can actually balance around the Jungle. We don't have to have nearly as much crossfire (for example, if we nerf a Jungler for being too strong, you accidentally nerf every other role they play (Wukong)). It's so much easier to just look at Junglers for what they do.

Just remember, right now, we're in the preseason. Balance is going to be shit, and due to how big the Jungle changes are, this was guaranteed to happen. Just wait for season 5 to officially start (and maybe 3 or 4 patches) and just wait on the promises made by the possible balance capabilities our new Jungle and Jungle items allow.

Cale01712/24/2014, 6:00:13 AM1 votes

Hey there! Jungle main here, and I just want to say that no... no it really isn't. Even if you're playing a jungler who has a bit of a rougher time and can't quite afford to gank as much early one due to low health, it isn't that hard to keep up in levels and gold. Especially since junglers are now getting extra gold for using smite, and laners are being discouraged from taking gold from their junglers by getting a reduced amount.

Granted, there are a few junglers that are ruling the roost right now. Anyone with extremely high sustain or the ability to stay in the jungle for a long period of time, Lee Sin, Warwick, Yi, champions like that, have the ability to clear their jungle reasonably fast while keeping their health high enough to safely lay down some ganks whereas other junglers might have slightly higher clear speeds but take more damage, or might be able to take a bit less damage but clear a bit slower. The balance of power is definitely off right now, but that isn't because of abuse from items like Feral Flare.

In all honesty Feral Flare, and it's spiritual successor in Devourer, were much needed changes. They came out with a bit too much power early on, especially with Skirmisher's on hit true damage, but once they got peeled back they're not too terrible anymore. A lot of junglers honestly needed an item like that, specifically the ones who are more based around auto attack reliant builds. Nocturne, Shyvana, Master Yi, Warwick, Udyr to a lesser extent, Aatrox, Skarner, even Volibears were able to use them to get a little edge in damage over the competition and then build straight tank... or at least I did to pretty consistent success haha. A few junglers went wild with them, Udyr, Yi, and Warwick all come to mind, but the idea of an item that caters more specifically to AA reliant champs than what Elder Lizard, or more recently Warrior, would give is a welcome addition that opens up a lot of new build paths for those types of junglers.

You can still play any champion and have a large impact on how the game plays out, even if they aren't particular power picks. A LARGE part of learning how to be a good jungler is having an innate feel for the flow of a match and how you can influence it. It's more than just the strength of the abilities of your champion, it's the strength of your abilities as a player. Warding is more important than ever now, not that it ever wasn't, and objective control is a legitimate concern with the new buffs on Dragon. You simply can't afford not to give up such a vital strategic tool anymore. The jungle is a lot more harsh as well now, but then again I feel that it fits thematically. Sure you should be able to jungle with any champion, but that doesn't mean that every one of them SHOULD, and those that are made specifically to do so will have the advantage that they should for the same reasons that taking a mage to the bottom lane doesn't tend to end well early on, or taking a support top has been beaten back into submission. The jungle shouldn't be a cakewalk, it should be something that you have to actively focus on instead of being able to afk farm, something you have to change your strategies as a player to overcome.

For example, my pattern with Diana used to be taking W first, then Q and E, and maxing Q for the extra damage. It's how I did well. but now if I jungle with her I have to modify that to focus at least one or two extra points in W early, so basically W Q W E W max Q, only using Q to set up for ganks and not necessarily for damage, so that the extra shield strength gets me through in the jungle. And what do you know? I've found that even without a mass amount of spellvamp or lifesteal she's actually staying much healthier than my other jungle champions, I can safely go blue, wolves, raptors, golems, red, before having to back while most of my other dedicated junglers have a hard time with blue, wolves, raptors, and by having to be much more careful about my Qs it's forced me to learn new angles of entry for ganks and to become MUCH better about landing it, predicting where enemies are going to walk or try to move and cornering them in.

The new jungle, however hard it is, has made me a better jungler because it's forced me to use my abilities to think on my feet and adapt, which are basic skills that any jungler should have.

If you're hitting level three and having to back, you're at about the same place as most junglers are, and after getting a few kills you shouldn't be behind in level all that much, if at all. In fact I'd venture to say that you should be ahead if you have two kills that early on and are playing a fast clearing jungler who can dive back in and make up for lost time. I'm not sure what is holding you back, but perhaps you should take another look at your jungle routes and try and time yourself in matches to set up benchmarks. Perhaps you're waiting in the river too long for ganks? I wouldn't be able to tell you without watching you play for certain, but I can assure you that keeping up in level isn't that difficult. Junglers usually tend to be about a level behind going into midgame if they haven't gotten many kills or assists, but that's very rarely a difficulty as proper ganks can set you up for success through superior numbers and positioning all the same.

That's just my take on it, take what you will from it. I hope I've been at least some help, and if you have any questions regarding jungling or champions you'd like to try out I'd love to help you.