With all the recent mana changes and many of the problems that so many have with the champs that rely on the energy resource, what if it was more like a build up similar to rumbles overheat rather then the way it works now. If you reach max energy use you become "tired" and cant use any of your abilities until counter hits zero. This would create moments of weakness and allow counterplay, as well forcing similar micro managing of abilities to mana reliant counterparts. Thoughts?
TheKingDodo3 votesLack of energy is exhaustion. 
below 25% energy = exhaustion = less damage.
Micro nerf, not really a big deal for decent zeds and lees. HUGE nerf for shen and kennen doe...
I think you targeted the wrong champs.
Lord OwlBear1 votesThat change could work too, and the only 2 champs running off energy that no one has any issue with can always get compensation buffs. Maybe even get mechanics to take advantage of low energy for example shen could do less damage below 25% but heal more off his Q. Good take though.
d3r3k2 votesI agree they should do something with all manaless champs. Energy champs could be a good start as it may be most logical/easiest to get a change in.
Junkο2 votesOr you know, give Zed and Lee CD on energy regen, lessen the amount Akali and Kennen get and leave Shen how it is
SouL1ess1 votesNo, I don't think it's necessary.
Energy has its own problems. It becomes weaker as the game progresses away from laning and come mid-late game, mana users have much more ease with resource managements than Energy users.
If anything, the exhaustion stack does nothing to counter how Energy favours small skirmishes rather than engages/all-in. You just nerfed Energy user's ability to fight an extended engagement and further enforce the poke/skirmish nature of Energy users, which I'm not sure is what you are trying to achieve.
Knight SoIaire 3 votesEnergy has its own problems. It becomes weaker as the game progresses away from laning and come mid-late game, mana users have much more ease with resource managements than Energy users.
mana users have problems
energy users actualy dont, their kits are either made around burst gated by energy pool with quite cheap poke skills to fight after burst(look zed) or sustained damage dealers who just replenish their energy by commitement (lee siin)
none of those say that they run out of their resource in any other case than bursting someone down and you usualy cant capitalize on your ally or you being dead on top of assasins kit being made to be able to get away after that
energy unlike being completly manaless allows you to starwe yourself out if you play your cards wrong, its the only resource that perfectly gates your capabilities to your champs intended plastyle
the problem we face is not energy not having problems, its energy champions being able to put out the same amount of power in many diferent areas without trully paying for it since their resource regenerates and they dont have insane cooldowns
main pro of having mana is that your skills are more potent that those of energy/manaless counterparts because you are gated on the amount of times you can cast it before returning to base
when energy was close to beign free there was no need to keep the energy champions below their bar in skill potency since all of them were practicaly manaless
now mana was brought up to the place it was supposed to be in and all of the other flaws that came with mana being infinite became visible
the problem is mainly existant on midlane, other lanes dont hate it soo much
Ninja of Dusk1 votesBut you'rea talking about Zed and Lee Sin, their damages is high, they has good Energy restoring with good skill synergy plus low energy cost. Meanwhile Shen and Kennen are shit.
For example Shen is a tank with high cost-energy, and energy is not nice resource for a Tank.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesthats why i wrote this at the end of my post
the problem is mainly existant on midlane, other lanes dont hate it soo much
when we speak toplane mana conserwing is a must, so mana vs energy ballance was actualy upheld there by riot
on the other hand midlaners have only their spells and mana vs energy ballance might actualy decide what is viable and what is not
also shen and kennen got rekt by balance because they can just be insanely strong on top of their utility and energy
i played shen and managed to easily solo ppl with him despite him being a "tank" or i built loads of dmg and still held enemy team on my back on the other hand kennen can just poke into infinity ballance hit them hard compared to other energy users mainly because they are on top lane instead midlane, and toplane is naturaly more passive
Virgin Ray1 votesI really don't get why cant energy build up more, like at lvl 18 you have 1000 energy.
DoFr1 votesthat would actually mean endless poke, i mean they will never all in your unless thier enegry is ful restored, think of rumble in lane, you'll find he's very careful to not go overheat unless he's forced to, but he isn't as mobile as energy champs, THAT and the fact that rumble NEEDS to be above 50% to do extra damage, however your suggestion for energy champions mentions nothing of forcing them to be at a certain energy level.
to summerize, imagine rumble with no damage bonus at 50% or above, you won't find him spamming spell unless they're directed at your face.
you just screwed alot of mana users in lane.
Lord OwlBear1 votesNot sure you understand the concept I just put forth, energy users have endless poke now. All ive introduced is a mechanic that creates incentive for them not to endlessly poke, but forces them really not too by making them realize it is a resource that they need to respect. If they don't and tax that resource too hard they would run the risk of not being able to cast spells until they get back to full energy. Rumble's abilities create about 20 heat so you can maintain them, energy costs vary, for example Zed after a full rotation of his spells would be very close to becoming "exhausted" if he continued to cast he would become exhausted and couldn't cast spells for 6 seconds. Hope this clarifies my point some. All im doing is adding a weakness that can be exploited not much else changes from the current mechanic.
Quort1 votesWouldn't that be essentially the same as the current Energy system but backwards? When they fill the bar they have to wait for it to decrease as opposed to depleting the bar and waiting for it to increase?
The reason Heat works on Rumble is because it's an important feature of his kit that does more than just limit his ability to cast. It also improves the strength of his spells when carefully maintained at adequate levels and provides him with compensation when he can no longer use his spells.
Lord OwlBear1 votesRumble was really just a point of comparison so you can parallel the idea somewhat, its really just about building in a weakness to manaless champs due to mana reliant champs getting kicked so hard.
Quort1 votesAlright, I can sympathize with that! I was just unsure about what you were suggesting; thanks for clearing it up! :)
AMYS GRAVE1 votesi don't care for rumbles heat mechanic, and i hope energy users don't go that way, but the nerf to mana regen has proven a problem.