Bramble Vest is too generalist of an item and punishes most top lane fighters

World Ender·7/17/2017, 4:53:15 PM·4 votes·895 views

For 900g you get a fairly stat efficient item (~70%) that has two strong passives. I would say that they are situational, except for the fact that most champions in top lane that are fighters rely on one or both of the things that the passive counters.

Take Aatrox for example, since he is incredibly reliant his autos for damage and his healing to survive in lane. Before this item was introduced, Aatrox could do fairly well vs. tanks because he had good sustain and could take short trades and then heal back up. Now, on their first back, the enemy tank can rush Bramble Vest and get damage reduction from armor, plus 20 magic damage and Grievous Wounds every time Aatrox auto attacks.

Obviously you won't quite take 20 damage, probably closer to 13 in the early-mid game with base MR, but again when a champion who relies on autos almost exclusively takes 13 more damage with every auto, it adds up. Combine that with the fact that the item also applies Grievous Wounds, which reduces healing by 40%, and now Aatrox loses about 40 effective HP every third auto since he heals for less. Over a short trade, this could mean that Aatrox is losing anywhere from 13-80 HP more than before the item. Bump this up to an all in or a long trade and it's going to likely be close to 200 HP lost. That is significant.

For an item that is supposed to be niche, Bramble Vest does the job way too well in top lane specifically. I have no problem with Thornmail coming as a 3rd or 4th item, but when you can rush the component and get nearly the same effect as the full item, I think that's a problem. It's so easy to build as a tank vs an AD fighter lane. Compared to Chain Vest, you lose 5 armor, spend 100 more gold, and get two very strong passives that are useful in almost every matchup top lane. It's just too generalist of an item currently.

The fact that a tank can build this item in almost every matchup and lose next to nothing for it is an issue. In what situation would you rush a Chain Vest instead of Bramble Vest now? Do you really, really, need that extra 5 armor? Or would you rather have two passives that destroy the ability of most top lane fighters to duel you?

Currently tanks build it and just sit on it, then proceed to finish all their other items. I don't think that's very healthy either. It shows that either the item gives too much value for a component, or the finished item is weak compared to its component. In both cases, it means the component is too strong.

TL;DR Bramble Vest is too generalist of an item as a rush top lane for how much it costs and the stats it gives. No one in their right mind would rush any other armor item this patch unless you're against someone top lane who doesn't basic attack and doesn't heal (and I'm hard pressed to think of an example where this applies).

6 Comments

BobaFlautist7/17/2017, 6:32:44 PM3 votes

Black Cleaver is too generalist of an item and punishes most top lane tanks.

Banshee's Veil is too generalist of an item and punishes most mid-lane combo mages.

Zhonya's is too generalist an item and punishes most mid-lane assassins.

Executioner's calling is too generalist of an item and punishes most toplane drain/sustain tanks.

QSS/Mercurial is too generalist of an item and punishes most everyone that relies on hard cc to counter ADCs (read: everyone)

Colgate Gator7/17/2017, 5:23:29 PM2 votes

Duskblade is too generalist of an item and punishes most Champions who aren't AD because they can't build it.

KuroCaliber7/17/2017, 5:02:27 PM1 votes

Finally something that bothers fiora.

Jinzo Torrance7/17/2017, 5:22:11 PM1 votes

Bramble could cost even 1300g instead of 900g and it would still be broken as shit.

Ralanr7/17/2017, 5:23:52 PM1 votes

Honestly I'd be fine if Bramble only applied GW and the damage reflect was shifted back to the completed thornmail.

Modern Support7/17/2017, 6:13:12 PM1 votes

I agree that bramble is strong though only in specific scenarios like vs Aatrox, Tryndamere, etc.

If we look at executioners and LDR you can see once you upgrade past the component the grievous wounds goes from 3s -> 5s

Thornmail by itself should be weak it's meant to counter healing after the change.

ADCs can still out-sustain your damage even with grievous wounds applied.

Thornmail should receive the following changes:

Grievous Wounds: 1s -> 2s Combine Cost: 400g -> 600g Total Gold Cost: 2900g -> 3100g Damage Scaling Reflect: 25 flat -> 20-110 (+5 per level)