ive played 6 games of top today. of those 6 ive seen 2 renektons and 3 pantheons.

Skyphic ·Apr 3, 2017·22 votes·1,857 views

do u think maybe something is wrong with the lane?

anything?

do u think its possible that people can queue up top and have any sort of interaction with the enemy top?

Just once I want to lose lane because I was bad rather than I didn't pick a champ that is designed to win lane and then "fall off" ( complete horseshit) do u think its possible u can do something about early laning phase and how horible it is for some champs?

id really not wish to rely on my jungler every single game just to be able to farm evenly.

i really wish they actually fell off like riot says they do.

renek only gets stronger and his teamfight is still super strong.

idk whats going on tbh

edit: didnt die once to him in lane and tried to do shit but since i was denied so much famr i was beyond useless.

"he falls off tho xDDD"

balance team more like braindead team

54 Comments

EedatApr 3, 201720 votes

Laning against Pantheon as a melee sure is "fun and engaging" gameplay alright

Skyphic Apr 3, 20177 votes

Renek e w q e combo sure is engaging And satisfying to play against :)

RFPSHBYQl7Apr 3, 20174 votes

This... Both of your comments I friggin know that feel! Meanwhile people complain about Tryndamere being unfun to play against. I have no idea why are there no Renekton/Pantheon rants on boards. Playing against any of these two is just as unfun as against Tryndamere, if not even worse.

Gallows madnessApr 3, 20171 votes

well ty that you hate playing against tryndamere it's right click to win

Gallows madnessApr 3, 20171 votes

you got his combo wrong

Gallows madnessApr 3, 20171 votes

his combo is where did he go?

TwinkieProApr 3, 201710 votes

Looked at your op.gg. Unless you're playing on a smurf, that's not what happened in the slightest.

You also have a sizable amount of games on panth, as well as a couple games with quinn top, with many more not showing up. Of your top 5 champs, 3 are total bullies, which besides panth, scale extremely well into the late game.

Troll for TrumpApr 3, 20174 votes

They're supposed to be lane bullies, that's how they work.

It's why there aren't really any good late-game ramp-up champs in top lane that are viable.

Ideally, mid and bot would have their fair share of them too, but they've been toned down, so now mid-game and late-game champs are rampant.

SpoofghoulApr 3, 20177 votes

no they are not toned down, it just because snowball is disgusting

but so are some lategame champs

i take it you have yet to fight a 3 item kogmaw?

you can't, really fun a game on a 20 minute timer before you autolose

the whole game is full of bullshit right now it just happens to be a case of whichever bullshit wins first wins, which means earlygame bullshit currently reigns supreme doesn't mean that a lot of lategame champs arent retarded right now

GelsominoKillerApr 3, 20173 votes

Unfortunately i must agree on kog. Once he gets his items, he's plain brain dead. You have absolutely zero agency against him:

You cant really 100-0 him through the support shielding.
You cant zone/fight him with a juggernaut/diver/fighter because he fucking heals on you.
You cant tank him because, well, he's kog'maw.

meowwow7Apr 3, 20171 votes

grant you can build mr to stop his w from shredding you a bit but he's mixed damage so it wouldn't help too much

Troll for TrumpApr 4, 20171 votes

i take it you have yet to fight a 3 item kogmaw?

And that's why lane bullies exist. They're supposed to stop these things from happening. Kog is probably the weakest ADC early and bullies should capitalize on that.

What Riot does now, though, is "flatten the power curves."

Early game bullies are more powerful late and less strong early (Darius rework)

Late game champs are more powerful early and less strong late Yasuo .

That's what they're going for, even though sometimes they don't work out as planned.

A lot of people complain about the current "power curve flattened" late game champs as being busted lategame.

But if you were around in the past, lategame champs used to be a LOT scarier.

Like, pre-rework Kog scary.

GelsominoKillerApr 4, 20171 votes

I am greatly favorable to different power curves, but to an extent. I'm not favorable to an "auto-lose" timer ticking down.

Right now some "hypercarries" can be excessively overbearing lategame, effectively impairing enemy team action. This is more often than not due to external factors (redemption and locket, namely), but it remains an issue still.

To go for an example, i've played against a lulu-ivern-kog trio recently. We won hard early but ultimately the game stalled enough for kog to get his items. Now, please trust me when i say the fucking kog was retarded: he got charmed, ulted, cced and assaulted, but managed to draintank everything and survive. Even if we did EVERYTHING that we could in that fight, we still lost. And it didnt feel quite right to lose that game.

Troll for TrumpApr 4, 20171 votes

"auto-lose" at 30 minute and "auto-win" at 30 minute champs are just the way champs work.

If you have every champ with the same power curve, it's more bland

GelsominoKillerApr 5, 20171 votes

On this i agree: champions need to have diverse power curves.

What i am saying is that, unless your comp is utter garbage, in every stage of the game you should have some agency, some play which if executed perfectly allows you to overcome the advantage of the late carry/early bully.

In the case of Darius early, it is abusing his immobility to kill him in a gank.

In the case of Kog late, it is capitalising on his mispositioning to CC him and take him out quickly.

Irelia BotApr 3, 20174 votes

And when it is not Renek or Panth it is a juggernaut which have a similar domination of trades during laning phase.

Really good idea you had with that class riot. I'll just apply the logic of rock paper scissors like I would in age of kings and change my feudal army to Scout Cavalry while building a few towers so I can counter the Skirmishers sent to deal with my archers...

Lane bullies were fine when they actually fell off or did not heal 40% of their health with every Q. Neither of these factors really applies anymore.

AnhartaminApr 3, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Irelia BotApr 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Are you sad irelia gets dunked by darius

I've had to stop playing Irelia and started playing akali who can wait out most of the stuff and somewhat farm from a distance if played well.

The Sword SaintApr 4, 20171 votes

I keep irelia as a pocket pick for ranged top scum and she works for that for me but... akali is still better at that and able to snowball harder too because of the nature of her ult and better sustain.

Angelofchaos16xApr 3, 20173 votes

renek only gets stronger and his teamfight is still super strong.

Are you ok there buddy ? Everything Okey dokey ?

Skyphic Apr 3, 20178 votes

Hmm renek being played in LCS I guess he's still really weak :)

BlakiepugApr 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hmm renek being played in LCS I guess he's still really weak :)

Sure Renekton is picked a lot in LCS but he hardly ever has a good payoff. Renekton needs to get fed in laning phase to be useful late game. I agree with you on Pantheon though. I just feel like I have options when going against Renekton since his dash is a "skillshot" so to say, whereas Pantheon just clicks on you and he jumps on top of you and gets a stun in the same ability.

Skyphic Apr 3, 20172 votes

no u dont. why the fuck do u think hes being played in lcs dude.

they barely have any interaction in lane and there is renekton being picked.

pantheon is another story.

somethng needs to be done about his passive.

it just screams "dont even try to come near me"

OelykApr 3, 20171 votes

Back to s3 all over again, the Renekton bar returns.

fuffychanApr 3, 20172 votes

Because point and click stuns and resourceless stuns are fair and balanced.

Skyphic Apr 3, 20174 votes

item 2033 just Let him waste his mana - pantheon players

option paralysisApr 3, 20172 votes

lol fuck top man, that's why I don't play that stupid lane anymore. try playing wukong vs. renekton/panth/fiora/jayce/darius, etc.. or any other tank like maokai/nautilus/poppy. even if you kill them in lane, those retards will just build sunfire visage and still be more useful than you in teamfights. I miss playing top wukong, but when I remember who you have to play against, no ty.

Gallows madnessApr 3, 20171 votes

then you play tryndamere and stomp every idiot top laner because they don't know how to deal with right clicking

seriously i main tryndamere go look at my op.gg and you will see the games i win most people i fight are gold to plat range and I always win lane

I think my favorite 2 games are when I first blooded 2 renekton's back to back making them afk as tryndamere because tryndamere's lvl 1 is where he is at his strongest against renekton till 6 items if you do not set renekton back as tryndamere you will lose lane and most likely not snowball

Tryndamere only loses to 2 real hard match ups which are malphite and rammus (i'm not joking either)

when malphite hits lvl 3 and has 121 armor already (scared for my life) he will destroy you.

Gallows madnessApr 3, 20171 votes

start cloth armor and run armor runes and in masteries bam 121 armor lvl 3 it's very possible.

RequiemsfireApr 3, 20172 votes

Well I suppose it's because Camille Fiora Kled have become dominant while Maokai Quinn Ryze were nerfed especially since lethality changes increased Pantheon's overall laning strength and snowball potential whilst renekton is strong against carry champions and will generally dominate against champions who aren't tank.

Toplane in general is filled with champions who avoid interacting with you anyways outside of really quick trades and are very cancerous to verse when they become dominant.

Fiora presses Q to hit your vital and the MS, true damage, and life steal see her winning the trade everytime as well as refunding the CD which also makes it an effective poke tool in lane when done right, outscales the vast majority of toplaners with just core items. Quinn Do I really need to say? Trundle Amongst the best disengage and engage for any toplaner. Riven so much mobility and quickplay, she may take skill but that doesn't make her any better than renekton in terms of bully potential Tryndamere tries cheesing you early on, if he loses lane he enters mindless splitpush ulting and spinning away whenever in danger, if he wins lane splitpushes and runs away when in danger, MonkeyKing bullies easily with W E Q Vladimir Stands behind a minion wave and sustains with poke abilities. Gangplank Pokes with barrels, accumulates gold very quickly Rumble Outpushes, scales well and pokes you through the minion wave

OelykApr 3, 20172 votes

Im going to argue about Trundle's case in that, personally, I find Gnar and Jax to be really slippery in engage/disengage power.

Friendly RamApr 3, 20172 votes

didn't renek get a new skin recently? you should really expect him tbh.

OelykApr 3, 20171 votes

Renektoy, but I am yet to see it.

WinTheWarOnPantsApr 3, 20172 votes

I'll take Renekton and Pantheon any day over Darius or Quinn .

OelykApr 3, 20171 votes

While perhaps a bit overbearing right now, it's not impossible to face them. Personally I hope it doesn't bring back champions like Olaf , Because he's flippin' terrifying.

ZT XperimentorApr 3, 20171 votes

Games are so snowbally & short that lane bullies are the only ones who flourish.

Skyphic Apr 3, 20171 votes

this is what im trying to point out but people dont get it.

im making a thread using those exact words.

ZT XperimentorApr 4, 20171 votes

I figured, also thought I'd state it bluntly in case people can't read between the lines.

BisaknospApr 3, 20171 votes

Renekton better nasus that doesnt need 30 minutes to farm in order to be relevant

Ariel the CruelApr 3, 20171 votes

Play Soraka. No CS? No problem. Lose turret? Who cares? Even when zoned off the waves, you can still get double a support's income. And with all that gold, let me tell you: She heals for a F-ton.

So have fun losing lane. You're useless until about 10 minutes. Your opponent is only useful until about 15 minutes. No matter how the lane goes, you win.

. . . Unless you're carries are worthless. Then RiP.

Skyphic Apr 3, 20171 votes

played vs a d1 soraka top.

she had me camped early game with exhaust but after that i completely dicked her with executioners and just melted her ass everytime she walked into lane.

would not recommend.

Ariel the CruelApr 3, 20171 votes

I Reiterate

So have fun losing lane. You're useless until about 10 minutes. Your opponent is only useful until about 15 minutes. No matter how the lane goes, you win.

Your goal isn't to win lane. It's to transition into mid-game as a second support. That's what makes taking her into snowball champs (ex. Riven) so much fun. You don't have to do a thing to beat them. XD And if their jungler decides to camp the tasty goat, it frees up your mid, bot, and jungle to wreck face with impunity. And even when trashed by endless jungle ganks, you still end up roughly where you would have as a support (position). Which is where Soraka is designed to work anyways. So they still gain less than you lose.

would not recommend.

Agreed. Not because it doesn't work, but because it requires a certain mindset and play-style that most of community will never adopt or accept. Also, it requires you carries to not be worthless. Which is a 50/50 chance in Yolo queue.

DunkinNoobsApr 3, 20171 votes

As bad as lane bully tops are, it's even worse when late game carry tops like Kayle, GP, and Jax are meta.

KaiokoApr 3, 20171 votes

Renekton and Pantheon top are back to actually being relevant? Since when?

Wînter FoxApr 3, 20171 votes

Pfft...try playing against Quinn, Swain, Signed, and Kayle instead.

Skyphic Apr 3, 20171 votes

kayle and singed have counterplay.

singed jst proxies like a moron and u can farm.

kayle just needs a champ that can stick on her and its over. quinn needs jesus himself to win lane vs her swain is cancer yea but he doesnt just run into u and chunk yuo.

he has ksillshots.

Sire HippingtonApr 3, 20171 votes

There are some bullies like quinn that scale well enough, but pant and rene actually do fall off rather hard. It's relly often enough to survive lane vs them, and they are not that hard to deal with as a tank. Yes, they are annoying to lane against, but claiming that pant and rene scale well into late and have strong teamfights is just pure bullshit. Winrate per game length <25min /35min/>40min

pant 59% / 52%/ 45%
rene 52%/49%/46% naut 49%/51%/51% jax 49%/53%/51% Fiora 49%/52%/53% Riven 48%/51%/53% data from op.gg

So data clearly shows that renekton and pant indeed fall of pretty hard as the game progresses

A FLUFFY BUNNY 1Apr 3, 20171 votes

Just started playing Renekton abut two weeks ago. I love him. He's a great counter to a lot of champs that dominate top. He does fall off fast though if not fed.