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Can we reintroduce Exhaust's AS slow and reduce the damage mitigation?

Rins Thigh Socks··19 votes·1,044 views

I'm thinking enough to where you get roughly the same DPS if you're running on ~.8-.9 AS but anything higher and it's a net damage loss.

Mostly so you have a summoner spell that's impactful against ADCs. It might encourage people to start bringing it back bot instead of Heal support/Barrier AD.

And before anyone asks whether or not I'm biased on the subject, this meta renders a good portion of my champion pool either unplayable or relegated to CC bots. It's impossible to dive because you get 2-3 people on the ADC and if you relent for 1 second his Sona turns the fight into a WoW-tier shitfest of healing. Once Coin finally gets nerfed I will get on this board and drink the tears of every support main here who thinks that Sona/Lulu/Soraka are currently balanced, and then breathe a sigh of relief because I know when I watch Synapse on Youtube the Tristana/Twitch pentakill montages will finally relent.

Yes I'm slightly biased.

32 Comments

Jie Chen6 votes

It's just sad because the game boils down to jungle+botlane, whoever has better jungle+bot lane wins like majority of the time in soloq.

Spank the Fox1 votes

Hasn't that been your complaint since like start of Season 6 though?

xHawk1 votes

I'm a jungle main, have one ~10 straight jungle games by playing Gragas and camping bot lane

Ahris2 votes

Where is your loyalty to ADC role???

Edit: Not sure but can you list some champs from your pool that are rendered useless? Thanks!

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

{quoted}

Where is your loyalty to ADC role???

Edit: Not sure but can you list some champs from your pool that are rendered useless? Thanks!

Vlad, LB, Lux.

Ahri is not useless and you need to stop being bad.

Ahris2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9jy04mT1,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-10-04T17:57:45.038+0000)

Vlad, LB, Lux.

Ahri is not useless and you need to stop being bad.

Okay, thanks for the answer. I would love it if I can watch your Ahri replays(can't since you unfriended me :( and you played at random times and wasn't really playing any Ahri because of tournament stuff). Thanks again.

EDIT: I also think Leblanc is really good. Highelo players still use her constantly(masters, challenger) so I don't really see how she is bad in anyway. Even Lux, her range is really long so how is she ever in range against an adc for them to be a problem(maybe shield being too defensive and stopping your one shot combo is a problem)?

Only role I can think of ADC being annoying is Vlad(though he definitely need no buffs, nerfs in fact is more appropriate) since his range is short.

Raoul2 votes

Yeah, when the enchanters are gone, ADCs will be balanced... keep telling yourself that.

When the Enchanters are destroyed to uselessness, ADCs will just force every support to pick Tanks that can peel for days to Babysit them all day long.

Nothing will change unless ADCs are nerfed and nerfed HARD!

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, when the enchanters are gone, ADCs will be balanced... keep telling yourself that.

When the Enchanters are destroyed to uselessness, ADCs will just force every support to pick Tanks that can peel for days to Babysit them all day long.

Nothing will change unless ADCs are nerfed and nerfed HARD!

Yeah when tanks have active gameplay and very little in terms of peel outside of crowd control, I really don't mind.

Alistar has his WQ combo and a weak heal.

Leona can only go in.

Thresh has a small shield and then CC.

Braum has his wall and then CC.

Taric has a meager heal, delayed invuln, and CC.

They can be played around and outplayed and it's the lack of counterplay to all the point and click shields and heals that's allowing anyone to run a hypercarry these days.

Once you take away the innate stat sticking that is Ardent Censer, Windspeaker's, and self-buff summoner spells coupled with an Enchanter's kit, ADCs are extremely easy to burst, so long as you actually know how to play around their support.

SpaghettiVase1 votes

I remember months ago when junglers, assassins, and maybe mage mains were complaining about the AS and damage reduction being "too harsh" and that it was crowding out ignite in the midlane, now they are complaining that ADCs are 1v1ing assassins even when they are caught out alone.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

I remember months ago when junglers, assassins, and maybe mage mains were complaining about the AS and damage reduction being "too harsh" and that it was crowding out ignite in the midlane, now they are complaining that ADCs are 1v1ing assassins even when they are caught out alone.

Oh don't get me wrong Exhaust did way too much. The AS and damage reduction were hurting assassins and junglers who relied on both doubly as much as it hurt ADCs.

The difference is I personally wanted the armor shred and some of the damage reduction to go. Instead, they reduced the armor shred and AS and I'm like, "Okay if Corki runs Exhaust and you have to run Exhaust to counter him, isn't that just gonna make him more busted?" lo and fucking behold.

Winterwings1 votes

Enchanters are //somewhat// balanced in the current state, as far as their champion kits go... It's their ITEMIZATION that isn't... Specifically, Coin is the biggest offender with it's stupid gold churning RNG fiesta of a passive that requires virtually no effort to reap the benfits of it.

Do note, while you could claim that im just another biased Soraka main, i don't play with Coin (AT ALL) even in the current meta and i have quite a dislike towards it. Sadly, Rito is nerfing item 3301 -> by making mana coins worse (lol, doesn't even come close to addressing the issue with it) and leaving it's absurd gold churning ability completely intact...

Nymzo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9jy04mT1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-04T14:34:02.128+0000)

Do note, while you could claim that im just another biased Soraka main, i don't play with Coin (AT ALL) even in the current meta and i have quite a dislike towards it. Sadly, Rito is nerfing item 3301 -> by making mana coins worse (lol, doesn't even come close to addressing the issue with it) and leaving it's absurd gold churning ability completely intact...

Tbh, Ancient Coin giving the biggest income would not be a problem if Riot did their job correctly.

I mean the item SHOULD give abysmal stats and SHOULD be a risk to buy instead of spellthief or relic. But right now, the way you get gold is as you said, super easy and super safe.

Rebonack1 votes

I STILL think that Exhaust should have been split into two spells.

One with a powerful damage nerf/attack speed slow but no move slow. The other with an absolutely crippling slow/grounded effect. With the first, you can still run away. With the second, you can still fight back.

xHawk1 votes

The problem is that would make those 2 spells very situational and not as flexible, which is what exhaust excels at. Also, I think that the problem with the power damage reduction spell would be too good in lane particularly and would also kill assasins. The second I feel would not be useful enough as it's basically a glorified Cassiopeia w, which isn't worth a summoner spell

k wìx1 votes

Uh, no. Exhaust is critical to stopping fed targets from running away with the game, ADC or otherwise. This would dumpster Exhaust. It's too important of a summoner spell, especially considering the current meta.

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9jy04mT1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-04T16:24:26.967+0000)

Uh, no. Exhaust is critical to stopping fed targets from running away with the game, ADC or otherwise. This would dumpster Exhaust. It's too important of a summoner spell, especially considering the current meta.

It's too important???? Nobody who runs it is fucking winning games they're all running heal and barrier bottom and heal or tp mid.

Thresh Outta Fux2 votes

If your problem is with Heals, you need to learn to appreciate the proper items.

item 3076 item 3123 item 3165

xHawk2 votes

I don't think you're reading him correctly. He's saying exhaust is not viable as opposed to something like heal/barrier, which is making those spells the meta. He's not saying that heal is overtuned.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

Other than flash, we're seeing lots of variability on the rift right now. As of the current patch I see summoner 12 summoner 11 summoner 7 summoner 3 summoner 14 and of course summoner 4 in every game.

I would hope they aren't changing any of them any time soon.

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thresh Outta Fux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9jy04mT1,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T19:34:47.026+0000)

Other than flash, we're seeing lots of variability on the rift right now. As of the current patch I see summoner 12 summoner 11 summoner 7 summoner 3 summoner 14 and of course summoner 4 in every game.

I would hope they aren't changing any of them any time soon.

Variability is all over the walls in low elo games. Always has been, always will.

In my high Diamond ranked games it's been rampant and any time you see Heal/Barrier, it just leads to the AD being impossible to burst in most scenarios and creates for poor gameplay.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

Well, I mostly solo queue, and I play fill, so I usually get paired up with randoms rather than well-ironed duos.

Jorencice1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9jy04mT1,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-10-04T16:34:38.429+0000)

It's too important???? Nobody who runs it is fucking winning games they're all running heal and barrier bottom and heal or tp mid.

Which is weird cuz heal is just staically worse.

2 - 3 attacks or abilities from an exhausted player is all it takes for exhuast to cause you to out "heal" heal and thats just early game.

Late game exhuast can take 600+ damage an attack away from ADCs causeing you to take thousands less damage.

I ALWAYS run exhaust on blitzcrank and its save and secured kills more times than i can count.

EDIT: i forgot a challenger freind of mine convinced me to run ignite on blitz months ago... rip.

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

{quoted}

Which is weird cuz heal is just staically worse.

2 - 3 attacks or abilities from an exhausted player is all it takes for exhuast to cause you to out "heal" heal and thats just early game.

Late game exhuast can take 600+ damage an attack away from ADCs causeing you to take thousands less damage.

I ALWAYS run exhaust on blitzcrank and its save and secured kills more times than i can count.

EDIT: i forgot a challenger freind of mine convinced me to run ignite on blitz months ago... rip.

Yes on aggressive supports you run ignite.

And when it comes to Exhaust vs. Heal, look at it this way. Exhaust applies to 1 person. Heal applies to your carry. Exhaust will always win the 1v1 scenario but in lategame teamfights heal (plus the MS) coupled with Windspeaker's Heal power, armor/MR, and Ardent/Redemption's Heal/Shield power makes for an incredibly powerful second summoner, especially when more than 1 person is diving your ADC.

Spank the Fox1 votes

The heal/barrier gimmick requires good communication, it barely works in solo queue.

ChiTenshi1 votes

RIP Azir Diana Kayle Jax Teemo XinZhao and any other Champion that builds Attack Speed but isn't a Marksmen.

xHawk1 votes

Azir does more than auto, and an attack speed debuff on him would hurt him but he already pushes out insane teamfight damage with the new steroid, Diana, Xin, Jax, etc. are all divers that are meant to be countered by exhaust, Teemo and Kayle are essentially marksmen.

Muzét1 votes

Patch 7.5

Are assassins bursting your carry at the start of teamfights? Is Kennen ultimate destroying your team? Then we’ve got the summoner spell for you: Exhaust! However, Exhaust is pulling too many extra strengths beyond “anti-burst” - even making its targets easier to kill. There’s nothing wrong with a summoner spell serving multiple functions, but when a defensive summoner spell is about as good for killing people as an offensive one like Ignite, it’s time to trim some fat REMOVED: ATTACK SPEED REDUCTION ▬ No longer reduces target’s attack speed by 30% REMOVED: RESISTANCE SHRED ▬ No longer reduces target’s armor and magic resist by 10

So they wanted to pick exhaust against burst and not constant damage. What's going on now? Marksmen do Constant Burst.

[sg-lux-2]

AirKingNeo1 votes

No? Why would we buff exhaust when it needs a nerf?

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well. As a guy who loves support and frequently plays Soraka, Taric, Leona, and who also plays top and midlane quite frequently, I really don't care if Exhaust and Coin get changed.

Just means less people to take Raka away from me AND gives me the ability to double screw over enemy ADCs when I play Leo.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

Well. As a guy who loves support and frequently plays Soraka, Taric, Leona, and who also plays top and midlane quite frequently, I really don't care if Exhaust and Coin get changed.

Just means less people to take Raka away from me AND gives me the ability to double screw over enemy ADCs when I play Leo.

Leona is hot garbage.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

She can be.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

AS slows feel terrible and they should be removing what few are left, not adding more.

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